@Pokefreak911 No, it doesn't show a player's "ability," it shows a player's willingness to conform to the standard "well I'm going to get utterly THRASHED if I don't use one of these cookie cutter builds."

(And again, I don't care what the "cornerstones," are, when your whole system is broken, none of your cornerstones or traditions or any of that matter. Diversity would still be applicable, it would just be easier to diversify your team and their moves before battle. (NOT after you've seen your opponents team list, obviously.))

I will climb atop Pokemon Mountain, and as you peasants lie before me I shall bestow upon you the New Pokemon Commandments™, so that you may be set free of your erroneous ways and enlightened as to the true nature of life, balance and not having speed be the most important stat for almost every single battle. "But Earthquake is a classic move!" you shall yell at me from your filthy hovels, "Nay," I will yell back, "It is OP, why does it hit my Pokemon that are clearly in the air? My Charizard is even a Flying Type, how in the crap does that make sense?? SMITE HIM!" and as a lightning bolt sends one billion volts of electricity through your brain, it will give you vision like you've never known, and you shall see the wrongness in your ways.

And as you lie there, delirious, my child, I shall bend down and whisper into your ear "Let there be balance, let there be modern game design," and the world shall, for once, know true peace.

@Xbob42
Where on earth did I say you have to conform to a cookie cutter build? No where. It's better if you don't and use a slightly abnormal build so the opponent cannot guess your moves.

Why don't you people just use TM and HMs? Then more moves are available for lots of the Pokemans.

Speaking of the Pokemans, the hobos on TV today during the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade (who I think used to be Al Roker and that other guy, but they are hobos now clearly) kept saying Poke-eee-mon, and I wanted to reach in the TV and slap them. It's been around for like two decades, guys. Learn how to say Pokemon.


"Did you see the size of that Pokeeemon, Al?"


"I don't know where I am and I just peed in my pants."

Why are we NOT trading Vivillion forms yet? Native High Plains here.

-JKR- said:

Why don't you people just use TM and HMs? Then more moves are available for lots of the Pokemans.

I was gonna say "Oh, EVERYONE uses TMs!" and then post a photoshopped image of someone's Pokemon team where their entire party had Earthquake in all 4 slots, but I couldn't get a clean shot of "Earthquake" as a move in any list to edit.

Someone loves the move earthquake

Anyways I wish they just killed the whole IV thing,

I wish they'd do that and instead of EVs the weird way they are, just let me distribute stats Persona main-character style. Or rather, Agarest style, where if a character is more "tanky" by nature, for example, increasing something like speed would cost more points than increasing something like HP. That way, you can still get unique builds, but not every Pokemon is just a blank slate, that AND you see exactly where points go and don't have to play this ridiculous guessing game.

Xbob42 said:

I wish they'd do that and instead of EVs the weird way they are, just let me distribute stats Persona main-character style. Or rather, Agarest style, where if a character is more "tanky" by nature, for example, increasing something like speed would cost more points than increasing something like HP. That way, you can still get unique builds, but not every Pokemon is just a blank slate, that AND you see exactly where points go and don't have to play this ridiculous guessing game.

X and Y pretty much fix that

@pokepal148 ...No, they don't. Super Training is a complete waste of time and a joke. Emphasis on waste of time. It's a terrible minigame that takes like a friggin' hour minimum to max out a Pokemon.

@Xbob42
Horde training is your friend, the st bottom screen thing does offer a little chart thing and will give you some nice reset bags as well.

Just make sure to break the battle maison first for power items

pokepal148 said:

@Xbob42
Horde training is your friend, the st bottom screen thing does offer a little chart thing and will give you some nice reset bags as well.

Just make sure to break the battle maison first for power items

@_@ I'm about 1/3 of the way through the game and this might as well be a foreign language to me...

@pokepal148 Everything you're saying is still archaic and slow and worthless and so fucking 1990s. That's the problem. There's plenty of ways to train, but none of them are fun, exciting, or transparent.

Xbob42 said:

@pokepal148 Everything you're saying is still archaic and slow and worthless and so fucking 1990s. That's the problem. There's plenty of ways to train, but none of them are fun, exciting, or transparent.

proper horde training doesn't take that long.

@Xbob42
EV training as it exists now was not introduced till the 2000's.

@Pokefreak911 And it was antiquated then.

@pokepal148 It takes too long for something you should never have to do to begin with.

@Xbob42
No. That's just your opinion. The majority of the fanbase has no problem with EV training, just they way the community manipulates it.

@Pokefreak911 Oh I'm sorry, I was under the impression that until X and Y the majority of the competitive Pokemon players in the world just hacked "perfect" Pokemon because getting the right Pokemon with perfect IVs and then EV training was a colossal time sink that only crazy people actually did.

Clearly I'm in the wrong, with this obtuse bullshit that isn't even presented to the player in any meaningful way for absolutely no reason.

But this'll clearly go nowhere, I'm talking with two people who have "Poke" in their names, it's like trying to convince [RELIGIOUS/POLITICALLY NAMED PERSON] that [PERHAPS NOT EVERYTHING IS AS PERFECT AS THEY THINK] but that wouldn't ever work, either!

Pokemon isn't this precariously balanced thing on top of a cliff, ready to go tumbling over, there can be significant changes to it without "breaking" what makes it Pokemon, Pokemon was never supposed to be about obtuse unfun mechanics and shitty minigames.

And next time you want to tell me what the "majority" of the fanbase likes, you'd better be able to cite a goddamn poll with millions of responses!

Xbob42 said:

[ref=id=10435&pagenumber=17#372626]@Pokefreak911[/ref] Oh I'm sorry, I was under the impression that until X and Y the majority of the competitive Pokemon players in the world just hacked "perfect" Pokemon because getting the right Pokemon with perfect IVs and then EV training was a colossal time sink that only crazy people actually did.

Clearly I'm in the wrong, with this obtuse bullshit that isn't even presented to the player in any meaningful way for absolutely no reason.

But this'll clearly go nowhere, I'm talking with two people who have "Poke" in their names, it's like trying to convince [RELIGIOUS/POLITICALLY NAMED PERSON] that [PERHAPS NOT EVERYTHING IS AS PERFECT AS THEY THINK] but that wouldn't ever work, either!

Pokemon isn't this precariously balanced thing on top of a cliff, ready to go tumbling over, there can be significant changes to it without "breaking" what makes it Pokemon, Pokemon was never supposed to be about obtuse unfun mechanics and shitty minigames.

And next time you want to tell me what the "majority" of the fanbase likes, you'd better be able to cite a goddamn poll with millions of responses!

until X and Y I absolutely hated the E.V. training system, now I'm willing to deal with it because I feel like there are now tools that can help you with understanding how the system works and at this point the mechanics aren't that obtuse anymore because you can now reset your ev's and you can now have an idea of where you are in this system. i detest the ST minigames as well but I feel like ST has other features that have made the system so much easier to use that the system itself is no longer an issue.

now I.V's on the other hand are a completely broken mess in my opinion and are undefendable