ninsage said:

Catching PKMN isn't supposed to be like checking boxes off of a list.

Then what do you call the pokedex

It's supposed to be arduous and dynamic and non-linear to make the sense of a journey and an accomplishment that much greater, If you don't find the process rewarding, do something else in the game...

I do find it rewarding overall but that doesn't mean i'm not allowed to find fault in certain aspects of the process, unlike I.V. training (or the reason why I have two boxes worth of larvitar to feed into the gts/bank) I find it to be an enjoyable process.

I mean, if you're letting something like the perceived value of in-game currency hold you back, it doesn't seem like you're that determined to begin with.

I have plenty of other things to put my BP towards, like Choice Items, a Life Orb,

Like I said I'm perfectly willing to get that evolution going to the end but I'm not going to get the items myself when I have a shiny Kecleon I can use as a bargaining chip for a porygon2 with it's evo item that will immediately evolve when I get it.

Also just to make the joke

The game isn't meant to be played like that though. It's meant for you to go on a "journey" and talk to your friends around the lunch table or water cooler... not consult a sterile wiki. "OMG, Sarah traded a ____ while holding ____ and it evolved! That's the trick!" That's the result this kind of game design aims for.

brb, gonna give everything I have a super potion and trade them all off to see if they evolve, sounds like a good idea

Hey psst, Game Freak, here's a list of Pokemon that YOU set so they can't be traded on the GTS under most circumstances,

Mew
Celebi
Jirachi
Deoxys
Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus
Victini
Keldeo
Meloetta
Genesect

so....
WHY ON EARTH ARE PEOPLE STILL ABLE TO REQUEST THEM IN RETURN FOR A LVL 1 RATTATA!!!

@pokepal148

And getting things you want/need via enticing trades is TOTALLY in line with how the game is meant to be played. Aside from being a nice cash grab, that's the reasoning behind version-exclusive Monz.

@PogueSquadron

No, no, I totally used Bulbapedia constantly to catch 'em all. But that's because I was going to derive the most pleasure by playing the game that way - a way that was not how GameFreak intended (yet not at the cost of other's enjoyment of course). I agree with you that the intended way is too mysterious to be enjoyable for folks in our situations. Yea, there are clues in the games, usually either by talking to some random NPC or sleuthing it based on an item's description and look. But, the responsibilities in adult lives, the desire for resolution, that meant I needed outside guidance. We're completely alike in that way.

The only two places where we differ is that I don't find it a chore, I find it fun! and I'm not trying to say this is the result of some misstep on GameFreak's part. The game is intended to be this way, it's not a miscalculation. Still, as I was just saying, don't forget that negotiating trades with people is totally in line with the game's design and arguably more effective AND fun!

@pokepal148

Finding fault in something is a little different than not liking something. You are 110% allowed to not like something, or just not quite prefer it, or say how you would enjoy it more a different way. But, like I was just saying to Pogue, finding fault implies.... fault... a mistake... something they would do differently given the chance. That's not what we're talking about. Maybe that's not what either of you intended. If I got tricked by semantics, I apologize... I only have toneless text to go on here!

Now, being able to request impossible offers? THAT is either an oversight (fault) or poor design... we can call that poor design because it serves literally no purpose.

So, yay, funny joke's aside, we on the same page?

btw, trading a shiny for any non-shiny or non-legendary is not the best trade for you! You can do better!

@NinSage yeah you're misreading my statements a bit, by finding fault I refer to minor things that may hamper my experience a bit but overall will just make me want to try and find ways around these things.

The only evolution I take legitamite issue with is the old feebas/milotic evolution method, i have never hit max on any of the contest stats and I beat every rank of every one of the r/s contests back in the day.

Oh it's definitely fun....just starting to wear on me haha. I don't think Game Freak ever intended for anyone to figure this stuff out on their own. This is a game of fan communication and database gathering. I suppose they don't fill you in on this stuff for the same reason they really aren't clear about IVs, EVs (both what your Pokemon's are, and how to change them) - they want people to just have fun playing, and if you WANT that info, you'll be able to find it somewhere.

I suppose the only time I really am getting bummed with this is when I have to deal with other people in regards to seeing some Pokemon. Is there a way to "see" them all by yourself? Will I eventually bump into Pokemon like Rhyperior in the Battle Chateau or something? I've been going through that while leveling up Pokemon that need to evolve. Figure I'd hit two birds with one stone that way. Gives me a chance to get to know these new Pokemon too. I've never had a chance to really use Pokemon like Salamence or Garchomp or Flygon or Haxorus before.


I still want to 'see em all' (I just want to fill the Kalos Pokedex...don't even remember exactly what you get (an oval something or other? to make Pokemon breed faster?). Just something else to do. I'd like to do this before playing more with the Battle Maison - maybe it'll encourage me to try new Pokemon I've never used. I'm tempted to see if I can do anything with Flygon.

@pokepal148

OK, I wasn't sure. Hence,

NinSage said:

If I got tricked by semantics, I apologize... I only have toneless text to go on here!

It happens. *hand shake*

I'm almost positive I traded for my Milotic. In fact, I think I might have gotten it from Davoid on the boards here... I remember it was in French. But, then I met someone with a better one and traded straight up. I guess they wanted a French one? Maybe trying to breed for shinies?

PogueSquadron said:

I suppose they don't fill you in on this stuff for the same reason they really aren't clear about IVs, EVs (both what your Pokemon's are, and how to change them) - they want people to just have fun playing...

Exactly. Which is another point that a lot of people seem to miss. Those values were never supposed to be accessible and malleable. They were there to give the game a sense of actual biological variance.

Like, "whoa, Steve's Bibarell is a beast, yo!" But, a lot of people derived more joy from making the game straight-up, serious competition. And the can of worms (or bag of wigglers if you've been listening to the podcast) was flung open...

That bums me out because I have no interest in "training" like that, which means I really canNOT participate in online battles because it's like taking a knife to a gun fight.

Unfortunately for you, I don't think PKMN from trainer battles register in your 'Dex. However, fortunately for you, if you trade with someone and trade back right away (don't even have to exit the trade), I'm quite sure that DOES count. So, if there is ever ANYTHING you want to see, I would gladly hook you up.

PogueSquadron said:

Gives me a chance to get to know these new Pokemon too. I've never had a chance to really use Pokemon like Salamence or Garchomp or Flygon or Haxorus before.

... maybe it'll encourage me to try new Pokemon I've never used. I'm tempted to see if I can do anything with Flygon.

I do find the experience you're describing one of the most fun things about PKMN. If the gameplay starts to feel stale, there are literally thousands of combinations you can experiment with to freshen it up. Different Monz have different move sets, base stats, abilities, (heck, even their looks and "personalities" go a long way with me!) ... all that gives you just fun little things to tweak your experience and spice it up when it gets boring.

Flygon was my beast during Gen 4. But, eventually I got tired of him and, strangely, now I'm kind of sick of him! =P Plus, the 4x weakness to Ice Beam wore on me! =P

Let me know if you want to "see" anything!!

ninsage said:

Exactly. Which is another point that a lot of people seem to miss. Those values were never supposed to be accessible and malleable. They were there to give the game a sense of actual biological variance.

Like, "whoa, Steve's Bibarell is a beast, yo!" But, a lot of people derived more joy from making the game straight-up, serious competition. And the can of worms (or bag of wigglers if you've been listening to the podcast) was flung open.

And now I feel that the best thing to do is to just abolish that system altogether.

And I can't believe this is something that exists

@pokepal148

A) That amazon listing is reeeeeeediculous.

B) I respect your opinion, but I love the faux biological variance too much to want to see it ever go. I just hope they provide some options in the future like different rooms to join online.... maybe a room for beginners, regular users, and then "pros" or whatever the IV-trainers would want to be called.

Or, maybe you could just have a choice between "free for all" (battle opponents are selected totally at random) or ... let's call it "balance match" where the game actually matches you with an opponent based on the stats of your Monz. That would be pretty bodacious*, if I do say so myself.

*I'm bringin' it back!
............ jk.

I like the idea as well but it clearly isn't happening. And two boxes of jolly larvitar really just prove my point.

However my main issue with the IV system comes from one chance Pokemon and I'm talking shiny/event Pokemon. It would be better if it affected your growth rates but they eventually evened out, (larvitar A has a low speed iv so we can expect it's speed to grow more slowly then say Larvitar B but when they reach lv 100 both will have the same speed stat)

@pokepal148

hmm, not a terrible idea. I still prefer how it is, but, I like where your head is at.

Speaking of the underground larvitar trade I wonder if I should get another box fed into the Pokemon bank.

@pokepal148

Last gen the hot mess that is Snubble was a rare commodity. On a super stroke of luck, I had to wait for my wife to do something so I just cruised around in .... Soul Silver, I believe it was, and happened upon a Snubble that was only their due to swarm! Captured that one, and then started breeding PKMN gold!! Really helped me complete the Dex!

How did I get a shiny rattata out of that trade, WHO THE HELL TRADES A SHINY FOR A LARVITAR.

also I'm pretty close to getting all the gen 6 Pokemon, like 3 odd ends and the Y legend
(And what's his face in the cave that I somehow haven't gotten around to getting.

@pokepal148

hacked? =\

@NinSage dunno don't care,

I think if they're going to have invisible stats in the game, they really need to do their best to just hide it from the player completely. No one is going to go through all that work to get a perfect Pokemon if they have no idea (or better yet, if it was COMPLETELY random). I think the IV system is completely ridiculous and basically just makes the game winnable for the select few who want to spend hundreds of hours breeding.

The EV system, I can get behind, at least now that they have the minigames to make them more accessible. That makes sense to me. It's kind of like on the show, where trainers train their Pokemon certain ways to make them better at certain things.

I mostly have the Central and Coastal Kalos Pokedex down, minus maybe a few. Working my way through the mountain Pokedex.

Oh, this is dumb. I was in a trade session with someone last night. I offered up my Haunter and he keeps declining the trade. It's like, dude....I'm obviously trying to just get Gengar. Can't you take that hint? I offered him up four times, and he kept just offering up a Chespin or an Eevee.

Question - if I trade a Haunter to a stranger, do I get credit for seeing Gengar? Or do I only get credit once Gengar has been traded back to me?

@PogueSquadron

I'm almost positive that you have to have it in YOUR game. So, if you try to do a trade/trade-back with randoms, that's very risky. Especially since the communication methods for trades with randoms are non-existent (a legitimate oversight in my opinion!). If you don't feel like arranging a time with someone you know (like me!), you should just hop into the Bulbagarden chat. There are usually people there willing to help out with things like that.

PogueSquadron said:

Question - if I trade a Haunter to a stranger, do I get credit for seeing Gengar? Or do I only get credit once Gengar has been traded back to me?

Frankly I think you should get full dex data. But I would be willing to help you out here. I already have gengar data from back when everyone pumped haunters in the wonder trade.

In return well, I need zapdos and articunp registered someday on the dex so there's that.

I kinda wish I could start a new game and carry over my dex data.

The crappy part is that this is usually my wind down thing before bed, and at that point I'm just falling asleep haha.

I'm down to four pokemon before I finish the central kalos dex.
I'm down to Scolipede, Jumpluff, Slurpuff, and Scrafty

Basically someone get me a Slurpuff