@Zero

I think it is more the "Crackdown Method." In Crackdown after a few upgrades you could go beat the game, no problem. But going for more and more upgrades made things epic by the end, leaping over buildings and stuff. So maybe for DK the later bits of the tree are just to ENJOY rather than "you have to do this or you can't win."

In fact, the more I read/hear about this game, the more it seems they designed it FOR player enjoyment. Everything (additional things, I mean) you CAN do is just icing on a cake, to a degree. Maybe not, but that's how it seems just from reading stuff. They made the baseline "you can do whatever you want" and then the extras are "hey, do even more of it if you'd like!" Quite different from, say, Metroid where if you don't have an upgrade you literally can't go forward.

EDIT: Also there may be some tough as nails stuff postgame that needs a tricked-out DK. That's how Mario Odyssey handled the hard bits - tossed you insane challenges if you wanted them at the very end.

@Zero

The challenge discussion around this is interesting. I'm someone that really loves tough games, but I can still enjoy easy ones as long as they're interesting in one way or another. Kirby games hit the accessibility sweet spot by having the main quest be pretty easy but tucking away a lot of secrets for harder players to dig for.

To me that's where a lot of the "challenge" (or whatever you want to call it) comes from with DK. There's that familiar sense of being rewarded for looking around, solving puzzles and doing timed or platforming challenges. Granted, you can now cheese your way through more of these than ever due to the range of the sonar and the ability to just tunnel your way into alcoves instead of finding the intended entrance. But there're so many bananas and fossils to find that a few brainless ones don't really matter.

That's my viewpoint on it, although I know that style of gameplay doesn't always jibe with some gamers. A kind of divisive thing with Odyssey was the amount of Moons it had, but I had no problem with that; I see them as a means to an end rather than being rewarding in and of themselves. They're basically mini-goalposts in the sense that they don't DO anything but mark another obstacle, puzzle or challenge as cleared. And having so many of them encourages players to leave no stone unturned.

Interestingly, the Banandium Gems aren't even tied to progression this time around but I find the skill point thing to be a sufficient reward for them (and I was a little skeptical of this RPG element going in). The exploration-boosting abilities in particular I found rather rewarding, like extending the clap acquisition for streamlined fun and the sonar range to keep moving and finding things.

Lastly, I thought the game was super easy in the first few levels so I didn't upgrade life at all, but now I've gotten to the point where I can get one-shot by enemies if I don't have any yellow hearts, so they do raise the heat. I think a lot of people might assume the game is shorter than it actually is and not realize they're still in the early-game when things are too easy.

I do wish the bosses had more life though.

@Secret_Tunnel
Galaxy is a little more streamlined/episodic than 64/Sunshine but I think what differentiates them all from Odyssey is actually the stop-and-go nature of being kicked out of the level once you reach the Star. This actually has a pretty major effect on how I personally approach the game: instead of hopping around from stage to stage (SM64, Sunshine, SMG1 + 2), I'll instead spend a large amount of playtime on each individual stage, combing it for secrets and trying to find everything (Odyssey, BK, DK Bananza). Having everything more-or-less available from the entrance encourages me to keep a mental map of the stage and where I've been, and as a result I'm way more likely to stick around in a level for a good while before moving on.

When 64 kicks me out, I'm not feeling like starting from the same opening spot again. And getting kicked out when you die also adds another barrier to players going back in the same stage. Conversely, BK encourages level-combing even more because of the way the Note system works in that game (100 Notes that get reset if you die or leave).

Finished the game's Grandmaster Galaxy / Champion's Road equivalent. Sad to say it was a pretty big letdown. Honestly it felt like one of the most forgettable challenge rooms in the entire game, aside from the memorably frustrating opening sequence, which was only tough because the game's camera just isn't built for what it throws at you. Really underwhelming capper, especially compared to the solid final sequence of the core game.

So that brings me to about 70% completion with regards to bananas, upgrades, fossils, and discs, and I intend to grab the rest for sure. Overall I think the game is a nice sidestep from Odyssey, with the destruction system being a bit of a double edged sword. There's real novelty to DK's abilities here, and skilled players can definitely find fun skips and make their own challenges, but it often tempts the player to forgo the curated path to each banana and simply dig your way to it instead, which makes each feel a bit less unique and muddies the sense of place in each level as well.

I think we're all circling the question of whether Nintendo's past couple Zelda and Mario/DK games are fun because of the openness, or despite it. This article I read yesterday sees Nintendo's willingness to let you totally trivialize every challenge as a sign of supreme confidence. I agreed with that when I first played Breath of the Wild, but after four games of it + replays, I am starting to now want a more compact, opinionated, restrictive experience.

The challenge rooms and other more linear sections were the highlight of Bananza for me. I absolutely adored the post-game challenges, which I also finished up yesterday. I don't care about difficulty for difficulty's sake, but it's often correlated with surprise, and a lot of the coolest stuff was in the challenges. There's one about turf-surfing on different materials that I just played which was magical, and I want a game that's dense with that kind of cleverness!

On the other hand, I do really like these games as playgrounds too, but I find that I have to be in a different mood for it. I largely played this game by going directly from destination to destination, and then combing the level afterwards. There's a little tension there, though. I wonder if a way to reconcile these two playstyles is to have one massive open hub world that you unlock materials in as you go to just mess around with, and then more linear focused levels?

Regardless, it's fascinating to be in game design territory that isn't so played out that it had an obvious answer. I think I'm ready for the answer now though, haha. Chop chop, Nintendo, more masterpieces please!

So just finished up 100% and yeah the game is really great. It doesn't quite scratch the DK itch however. A big issue I have with the game is the world feels like it is a video game. My favourite part of the older DK games is how tangible the world felt and I think due to how most of the levels in this tend to just be floating islands in a void it loses that.

I also felt like it was meandering and a bit of a slog throughout the middle of the game. It could have done with a few less worlds and it would have made for a much tighter experience.

Will echo every other thought I have seen about the difficulty. DK games are known for being quite hard, this game is not really hard ever? It has some trickier sections but I struggled with those because of not thinking of my tools enough, or an issue with the controls (which only really happens with 2 of the Bananazas).

The final sections of this game are such a blast and a huge treat. They easily made up for every other shortcoming of the game. I am looking forward to the future of DK a lot after seeing the love Nintendo gave him here.

Did anyone else beat this!?

It hasn't stuck with me much! It was pretty magical, but I also found it to be pretty derivative of this team's past work. It really felt like Mario Odyssey 2 to me.

@Secret_Tunnel
I thought the ending sequence was rather spectacular, even if it leaned a little heavily into fan service territory to a rather un-Nintendo degree. Ultimately I can understand some of the complaints where people are having trouble focusing on very specific sequences/bananas but the stars of the show here for me are DK's insane movement abilities and the destructible terrain. Both of those aspects I think are where the game truly feels next-gen and are probably my biggest takeaways from this. Overall I thought it was really great.

@TriforceBun
My first game was DKC, I grew up playing the SNES trilogy and DK64 during my childhood so I was the perfect target for all the fan service and I adored it.

But I also think it needed to be there. People have been klamoring for more kremlings for over a decade now and to see them alongside the king himself, as well as the various other kreatures was well earned. They have not been around for ages and for a game that so clearly is trying to celebrate Donkey Kong as a whole and bring him into this new age it seems very fitting for this to be the game that the krew returns.

Ending spoilers:

For me, the last two hours of the game were absolutely incredible, and the highlight of the whole experience. Tears of the Kingdom level final boss lead-up and climax, Kojima level continuous stream of fake-out endings and escalating stakes. The Forbidden Layer's gameplay twist was one of the coolest ideas in the game, the Void Kong battle was intense, the Core's enemies and music were a great little bit of fanservice, the first battle against K Rool was great, the false credits and shoot back up to the surface gave us an awesome Gangplank Galleon remix, the final level had phenomenal music (with Bananza themes mixed in!) and the best linear platforming of the whole game, and then that final battle is the most evil K Rool has ever been, with the entire thing capped off with—I'm always a sucker for one of these—an incredible smash cut to the title card, followed by a final performance by Pauline. Amazing!

(I think Jenny Kidd's vibrato is a little too much, though?)

I was also really pleasantly surprised by the lore in this game. If Cranky Kong is old at the time that Rare-DK is young, then Mario would also have to be old, right? So addressing that by introducing us to the original Pauline's granddaughter is great. Realizing that this isn't a predictably inconsistent prequel to Odyssey, but rather, a sequel to Odyssey that actually enhances Mario lore was a mindblower.

@Pokefreak911I’m nearing the end and feel this sentiment a lot. The end of the game is looking truly great- legendary tier status from Nintendo here but I wish this stuff had happened sooner in the game.

I think due to the game’s nature I just didn’t know how to handle the game’s pacing. When should I move on? When should I linger in a world? While you CAN just go to the next checkpoint… there ARE checks at specific points in the game where you need a lot of gold. So from that standpoint, I think the game does a bad job at encouraging you to do the things it wants you to do. In Odyssey you have to get moons to progress, so it’s never really a waste to go exploring to get moons. In this game..,,you don’t NEED the bananas. The bananas are never a check to progress.

Theoretically you really could just skip a ton of this game’s conten (although I guess you could argue this going back to Mario 64). This was an issue with Odyssey but feels more of an issue here. Since the game doesn’t require you to do a lot, you can totally get to the game’s harder moments and be drastically underprepared. In Mario games, you always have the same toolset, so you’re never really punished for not exploring. I wish this game would embed some of these challenges into the core linear path. There’s some really, really good challenge rooms that a lot of players will just never see, and that’s where I think the game shines the most. The large sandbox areas? I feel like those wind up being the least interesting parts. Anyway, that’s a lot of rambling.

I don’t know how I’ll feel about this game over time. I really like DK’s movement and the end of the game is shaping up to be great. The whole back half of the game feels much better and more creative than the first half. I just wish they would’ve cut to the chase sooner because the first half to the middle of the game just felt a bit meandering. There are definitely worlds that I’ve spent practically no time in, and I imagine I’ll be revisiting them in the postgame.

Edit: I’ve rolled credits and definitely would love to talk more. Spoilers for the game’s final moments below!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The big reveal towards the end was incredible, though I wish it hit sooner. I had this twist spoiled for me already unfortunately, but I always wondered if this was what Cranky had been ranting about this whole time.

Seeing the Kremling Krew and hearing all their sounds was major memberberry goodness. I was almost kind of hoping the Tiki Tak tribe and the Vikings would show up as well, like a big celebration of DK, but this was more than enough. Loved the musical nods to Minecart Carnage and K.Rool’s various themes. Great final boss fight.

I was hoping I’d be more emotional in the game’s final cutscenes but it didn’t quite hit as much as I’d hoped. I did well up for sure with all the nods to the first couple games. And loved seeing K.Rool with his propeller! Wow. But no, the end doesn’t reach the gameplay or emotional highs of the end of Odyssey. I think this game had better fights with K. Rool than Mario had with Bowser, but nothing can really top using Cappy to play AS Bowser.

But like…so is this a prequel to Odyssey? Is this Pauline the main Pauline’s granddaughter? She mentions a grandma, and if that’s the case…who is Pauline’s mom? Because for all intents and purposes, this version of New Donk City looks exactly the same as the one from Odyssey. So Mario’s Pauline DID have her adventure with Mario and Donkey Kong? But Cranky didn’t want to mention that this Pauline girl looked like the original? I really don’t know how they think about this stuff. I get that they don’t care about the story but, I mean, not even a little? lol. It’s so bizarre.

All in all I really like this game and definitely want to keep at it with the post game. I don’t think the game is good as Odyssey (to a point where I think Odyssey is actually a much better game), but this was really technically amazing and a great way to kick off the Switch 2. Even with performance dropping in some boss battles, I was always really impressed with how much was going on.

I think if this game had hit the nostalgia buttons earlier, and also incorporated more linear/challenging content into the main story, it really could’ve put it over the top. I also really could’ve used some story beats early on because it really dragged for me for a while. All in all I’d probably give it….an 8.5/10? I’ve put around 25 hours into it, so I look forward to getting to all the lost game content. So far, it’s a real doozy and feels pretty challenging, which is great.

Just started this last night and I was enjoying it, but today I got to the first real World with the fishermonkeys and now I am having a BLAST. So much pure fun roaming around finding stuff and completing goals. I love this. I'm giving serious consideration into just returning it to the library and swinging by Best Buy to purchase a copy, then spending the next few months slowing 100%ing the thing.

That I consistently hear "the end of the game is the best part" makes me highly encouraged to look forward to what comes next! It's already such an entertaining experience.

I started a second file in this last night. I haven't been talking to any NPCs or doing any exploration. During my first playthrough I practically strip-mined every level, but this time I'm not straying from the beaten path! Between this more focused playstyle and having already mastered DK's moveset, this playthrough has really made Bananza's unique mechanics shine. I criticized the game earlier for having similar settings and elements as previous Mario games, but the way you interact with them makes all the difference. Breezing through these levels while constantly ripping out chunks to use as melee weapons, throwable weapons, double jumps, and chemistry engine ingredients has been a blast and gives this game its own identity in a way that I find a lot more interesting than "you can punch any wall." Bananza transformations really don't trivialize the game at all, because there's always a faster (and more fun) way to solve every problem as DK's base form if you understand and master the mechanics.

Incredible game. Do a second playthrough!

@Secret_Tunnel

Sold!

Finished the game and finished the post-game, got all 777 bananas.

Just awesome. Kind of backloaded a bit with some of the best stuff coming late, especially if you want a challenge (the post-game has some of the most challenging stuff.). But still, awesome all around. And it really feels different than Mario and well, all of the Mario clones out there. (I love Astro Bot but it's basically just a Mario game.)

Using friggen elephant DK and just utterly shredding the terrain was so much fun. I don't know how system intensive that is but this definitely doesn't feel like a game that could have worked on the Switch 1. It's just so much fun to move in this game in general. But not in the Mario light-footed way, things have momentum in DK but you have the POWER to just smash through things and make it work.

Hopefully they add some DLC but who knows. Nintendo is weird about what does and doesn't get DLC.

Zero said:

It's just so much fun to move in this game in general. But not in the Mario light-footed way, things have momentum in DK but you have the POWER to just smash through things and make it work.

I was shocked at the level of pure fun that moving around in this game is. The only thing (and maybe it comes later as a power? I dunno!) I would have loved is a way to kind of long-jump or Banjo-Kazooie flapping slow-fall. I try to make certain jumps with the spinning, slow falling move, but that never seems to work, ha ha. (I know it isn't a jumping game, but it feels like I'm missing some jumping!)

Anyway, the sheer joy in moving around in this game is brilliant, like you said. The power really, really shines through.

@J.K. Riki

It's not quite as powerful as the stuff you could chain together in Odyssey, but you can get a long way with roll->jump->punch->dive. If you do a turf surf into a double jump prior to that, you can get some extra speed and height too.

I like roll->jump->clap->roll myself. DK really covers a lot of air!

Ooo, good to know! I will try some of that.

I always forget about the Roll, and then when I remember I'm like "Wow, this is great!" until I forget again.

I found the roll to be really useful against the little roller enemies that charge you. Way easier to time than a punch.

Lmfao at the Animal Well Layer 3 tier puzzle in the DLC. I'm gonna take credit for being the first person in the world to solve it without Twitch chat help.