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Negative World Podcast 009 - Dumb kids with more money than sense
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May 15, 2011, 09:39:39
 


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On this episode, only three people could make it, but that's okay: they ramble a lot!

The ever topical Anand ponders about the possibilities that Project Café could bring to the table if the rumored specs are true, especially the touch screen integrated in the controller. Does he have a better answer than just checkers and solitaire? You will have to listen to the end to find out!

Guillaume, ever repentant, tries to be positive for once in his life and asks about the positive things gaming has brought YOU, the listener. He is immediately accused of being stealthily negative.

Finally kriswright, ever the newb, decides to simply talk about what he loves the most in the whole world: pinball. He does not, however, deign answer why he simply doesn't marry it. Kris also tackles the big question of the death of arcades and whether they could be brought back.

As usual, the music comes from Negative World's owner and dictator, Zero.

As usual, comment on the topics, the podcast, the guests, the host, etc. on Negative World! Or, be a weirdo and post them on Facebook or Twitter instead.

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Posted: 05/15/11, 09:39:39  - Edited by 
 on: 12/05/11, 06:30:55    
 
Why not sign up for a (free) account and create your own content?
 
I'm listening now.

I'm not following the buy a Wii 2 instead on an iPad comment though... perhaps it will be explained soon.

edit:

Ok. Whoever is talking about the controller as being able to stream games from a central server like OnLive is officially crazy;)

edit 2:

I'm curious what you guys think the competitive advantage of something like this would be over what most everyone already has, like a smartphone. You guys talked quite a while about selling hypercasual games... like Words With Friends or Scrabble however right now I can do that for like a buck on a platform I already have, be jacked into all my Facebook buddies and people on my friends list, communicate, etc. Further my iPhone touchscreen is going to blow this screen out of the water so you have inherent functionality issues to really compete.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 09:51:14  - Edited by 
 on: 05/15/11, 10:53:43
Yes i will participate someday i hope :p

listening now =3


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 15:26:49
Cool...just woke up and started moving around. I was wondering how I would start my sunday...now I know.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 15:58:35
Yay! Listening now...

Wait...you just said the S word! This podcast is M rated!


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 16:05:57
@Oldmanwinter
I don't have a smartphone.

But I realized afterward that I forgot to mention many ACTUAL video games. The way I see it, Mom could be playing Sudoku while Dad reads the News while Sally plays Super Mario Bros. while Billy plays Zelda II on the (remote) Virtual Console. So one of the competitive advantages would be Nintendo-quality games. I kept harping on casual stuff to make the iPad analogy.

And obviously, the Cafe controller would have more modest abilities than a real iPad, but, as a dumb terminal, I think it would have decent enough functionality. 6" is way bigger than the iPhone, and it has buttons!

Why do you think the OnLive-esque functionality is so far-fetched? The system is reputed to be fairly powerful and streaming technology (I forgot to elaborate on the other codename, too) is apparently at the heart of the concept. I really think that's the gimmick.

As far as family games, though, sure, you could buy them for a dollar, but wouldn't it be cool to have access to ALL of them immediately, in multiplayer form (with seamless online)? Clubhouse Games Striim will be a beast.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 16:10:38  - Edited by 
 on: 05/15/11, 16:16:27
Anand said:
@Oldmanwinter
I don't have a smartphone.

But I realized afterward that I forgot to mention many ACTUAL video games. The way I see it, Mom could be playing Sudoku while Dad reads the News while Sally plays Super Mario Bros. while Billy plays Zelda II on the (remote) Virtual Console. So one of the competitive advantages would be Nintendo-quality games. I kept harping on casual stuff to make the iPad analogy.

The thing you are not taking into account here is the massive, massive install base of smart phones, iPads, etc. Dad is already playing Soduku on his iPad or iPhone or Droid, Mom is already in a day long game of Words With Friends, etc. Further one of the big reasons people have adapted smartphone versions of casual games like Scrabble or Words With Friends is that they can put some words down then go back to shopping at the supermarket. What you are asking people to do is instead of playing a version they can take anywhere all day with them (which is the appeal), is to forego that for a likely much worse looking version (there is no way in hell this thing is anything remotely close to the Retina display, or even shitty knock offs in terms of fidelity) with no multi-touch and what will likely be a much worse online network.

I mean my phone has Facebook on it, these hypercasual games link with Facebook. There is an entire social aspect to this that is in place and is already highly successful and highly functional. You are essentially talking about taking the portability out of it, gimping the functionality and competing with Apple. It's never going to happen. On top of this this you have a global, enormous install base already in place. As of 2 years ago there were 30 million iPhones worldwide. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if it's closer to 50 million now. Also they aren't even the largest provider of smartphones, the Droid has a massive presence as well. And then you have the iPad/Droid Tablets. Take this in conjunction with literally thousands upon thousands of free hypercasual apps with built in, free and very functional friend finding, lists, linking to FB accounts, leaderboards, etc and there is simply no way what you are talking about is going to have a chance to compete.

That said the part about using your console as a server (ie you download Zelda II on your Wii2 and all 4 controllers have access to it) is a good idea and I can see that being far more in line with reality than the rest of what you were talking about. This is actually a great idea. So if you download a game like 4 Swords, anyone in the house can pick up a controller and play on the controller while using your Wii 2 as the server. Applications like this make a ton of sense, especially considering Nintendo's past dabblings in connectivity. It would also give rise to a lot of downloadable, co-op enabled games which again is something Nintendo is all about. The upcoming Starfox 3D would benefit from local co-op like this.

I also think you are going to have some issues with overlap in games with this controller/console concept and the DS. It seems to me there would be a massive overlap, but who knows.

Anand said:
And obviously, the Cafe controller would have more modest abilities than a real iPad, but, as a dumb terminal, I think it would have decent enough functionality. 6" is way bigger than the iPhone, and it has buttons!

There is no way something like the 3DS is going to compete in functionality with the iPad/iPhone. The thought of a controller you buy for fifty bucks doing it is no offense, completely ridiculous.

Anand said:
@OldmanwinterWhy do you think the OnLive-esque functionality is so far-fetched? The system is reputed to be fairly powerful and streaming technology (I forgot to elaborate on the other codename, too) is apparently at the heart of the concept. I really think that's the gimmick.

Have you ever used OnLive? It fucking sucks. Secondly at the core of something like OnLive is the need for literally the fastest broadband on planet earth, and you still get big time lag. It literally goes against every single core principle Nintendo has shown regarding gaming and connecting people over the years. There is a massive barrier for entry and the results are shit. Nintendo will never take a relatively unproven idea like this and base an entire console around it. Never.

Anand said:
@OldmanwinterAs far as family games, though, sure, you could buy them for a dollar, but wouldn't it be cool to have access to ALL of them immediately, in multiplayer form (with seamless online)? Clubhouse Games Striim will be a beast.

I already do. It's called the App Store.

I really think because you don't have an iPhone and don't use the App Store you aren't really getting exactly what you are actually talking about competing with. Like I said above there are literally hundreds of thousands of hypercasual games available for free or a nominal charge with all of the things you are talking about... and they are portable and work on a 3G service. You are offering no competitive advantage, in fact nearly every aspect of what you are describing is a totally gimped, non-portable version of what already exists.

Also the thought that somehow Nintendo is going to offer not only a more competent online experience but also cheaper than the $1-$5 games on the App Store is ridiculous and you know it. Nintendo never gives anything away for free. Ever. You would probably be buying Angry Birds for $40... and I'm only half kidding.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 20:56:48  - Edited by 
 on: 05/15/11, 21:04:30
Right. I don't really see Project Café competing with the iPad that way either. I really think it's more in line with what I said in the podcast. The way I picture it, there is really only one controller with the screen. There's probably a stand for it right on the console. And it turns out and lights up and shows you when you received a message or when a friend is online. You can pick it up and do some stuff with it like message back or whatever, but I see the use in the games themselves as more limited.

I really think it's mostly going to be used as a way to get people to constantly turn on their Wiis. I mean, don't mouthbreathers around the world complain that their Wiis are just dust collectors? If Project Café has a Live-ish online system that is in your face not only when you're playing it, but when you're not, well, wouldn't that help a ton?


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 21:08:32
Guillaume said:
Right. I don't really see Project Café competing with the iPad that way either. I really think it's more in line with what I said in the podcast. The way I picture it, there is really only one controller with the screen. There's probably a stand for it right on the console. And it turns out and lights up and shows you when you received a message or when a friend is online. You can pick it up and do some stuff with it like message back or whatever, but I see the use in the games themselves as more limited.

I really think it's mostly going to be used as a way to get people to constantly turn on their Wiis. I mean, don't mouthbreathers around the world complain that their Wiis are just dust collectors? If Project Café has a Live-ish online system that is in your face not only when you're playing it, but when you're not, well, wouldn't that help a ton?

I agree, this is probably a lot more in line with what it's actually going to be. Using it as a portal to your friends list on Cafe, like you said I could pick it up without turning on my TV, see that you are online, ask if you want to drop in for a game of Mario Kart... then turn on my console and go.

Actually if that's all it is that's pretty fucking brilliant because you could be walking around your house, you wouldn't even need to be sitting in front of the TV and you could set up a game with some buddies while you make a sandwich, go upstairs, turn on the TV and off you go. The more I think about it, the more I hope that's what it is.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 21:18:22
Wow, you guys have never played Four Swords or Crystal Chronicles? I played them all the time with my friends, some of my fondest memories of gaming. And we were by no means rich, we all just had game boys and a love for gaming together.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 21:28:02
@Marsh

I definitely would have if it had been easier to get all the necessary components together. Both of those games looked incredibly fun. But, at the time, I was in the latter days of college and I didn't have the time/energy/friends with Gameboys to make it happen. I have thought a few times about getting some old GBAs off of eBay or something and giving it a try now. I'm sure Four Swords, in particular, is still a really worthwhile experience. Maybe it'll be ported to the Cafe?

EDIT: Oh, and I wish you guys would have told me I sounded so bassy/midrangey on the mic. I could have adjusted that!


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 22:22:54  - Edited by 
 on: 05/15/11, 22:23:59
@kriswright

In case that wasn't clear already: I have no idea what I'm doing. Is there a technical problem that could have been corrected? You sounded fine to me, I dunno.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 23:03:11
Nah, I was joking. Don't worry about it, Guillaume. You did a fine job and, considering the other technical problems we had to deal with, this is absolutely small potatoes. It was certainly intelligible and worked fine. I just thought I sounded a little muffled, which is doubly bad because I usually sound like a guy with a cold, anyway.

But that's certainly not your fault. Honestly, I sort of brought it on myself by calling the testing service over and over and adjusting the equalizer according to the sound I was hearing back. I gave myself a bit of a bass boost because everything was sounding thin on those test calls. What I should have done, instead, was just asked you guys how it sounded and adjusted the EQ according to that. If there's ever a next time, maybe that's how I'll approach it.


Posted by 
 on: 05/15/11, 23:26:08
@Anand

What did you mean by saying 3DS is mostly for gamers?

Also, have you ever played the board game Clue: Museum Caper?


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 01:28:37  - Edited by 
 on: 05/16/11, 01:44:34
I also forgot to mention the possibility of an onboard mic (and speakers) in each controller, which could enable voice chat, verbal commands, etc. And a pedometer.

Oldmanwinter said:
Have you ever used OnLive? It fucking sucks. Secondly at the core of something like OnLive is the need for literally the fastest broadband on planet earth, and you still get big time lag. It literally goes against every single core principle Nintendo has shown regarding gaming and connecting people over the years. There is a massive barrier for entry and the results are shit. Nintendo will never take a relatively unproven idea like this and base an entire console around it. Never.
Goddamn your lengthy reply. I think you misunderstood me on certain issues. When I said OnLive-like functionality, I didn't mean streaming from the web. I meant streaming from the console itself. Like, imagine if the console could accept the inputs, crunch the numbers, and simultaneously run the four applications and only output the video to each handheld unit, such that each controller could be playing different (modest) games (VC, simple apps, parlor games, Bomberman, etc.), but they could also seamlessly network with each other (and perhaps the internet) for co-op/vs. Now this all depends on Nintendo delivering some kind of kickass wireless video transmission tech, but that stuff already exists in some form, even in HD. Maybe they've come up with a forward-thinking solution.

And, except for the controls and the access to actual Nintendo games (and other similar fare) on the device (which are significant factors), I AM proposing an inferior iOS experience, absolutely, But a far cheaper, more expandable, fully networked one, with applications designed to take advantage of the differences and minimize the weaknesses. Nintendo could easily deliver simple, effective e-mail/Facebook/web browsing/Netflix apps that would take care of most people's needs. Running four separate instances of Netflix is probably out of the question, though. But maybe sending each controller a quadrant of the screen and placing them next to each other for a 12" display isn't!

And there's no reason that Cafe can't have the exact same apps or types of apps as the iPhone, including the link to Facebook. Nintendo has already done a bit of that with the DSi.

Out of curiosity, why did you mention StarFox, particularly?

@Guillaume
I really don't think that's a sufficient enough usage to form the innovative spine of Nintendo's new console. It is definitely one likely usage, and traditional single-player titles will have those types of functions, but I can't believe that's all Nintendo is proposing with this new console.

@kriswright
Four Swords has gotta show up on Cafe eventually. Hopefully, Roll-o-Rama will, as well. And Nintendo Puzzle Collection and Donkey Kong Plus, the titles that you guys didn't give me time to mention!

@Jargon
Is that different than normal Clue, like Castle Risk? If so, then no. But Clue would be kickass on the system, with each controller acting as a little scratchpad. I didn't really elaborate, but the Cafe could enable all sorts of multiplayer mindfuckery.

As for the 3DS thing, it seems to me that the 3DS is more gamer-focused, at least at this point, than the DS was/is. It's expensive, the games are mostly focused towards people like us, it's not exactly flying off of shelves, Nintendogs didn't sell a billion copies, the 3D display will minimize touch-focused games, and even the 3D implementation itself is a bit daunting for casuals.

That could change over time (like if 3DSWare takes off), but I think the system features lend themselves a bit less to casual play (although it is obviously capable of mimicking a DS).


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 02:51:12  - Edited by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:37:49
Listening now. Can't wait to hear Anand! Your voice is higher than I expected haha! And young!

And screw you for taking my Cafe talk away from me! I wanted to do that!! The conductor of the hype train!!


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 02:58:41
Who's the girl?

I've been posting with a girl and I didn't know WHAT

/12yearsold


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:00:46
You bastard.

I may sound like a woman, but I'm all man, baby. Maybe a little too much man, even.

Oh, you meant the actual girl. Heliumsky.

@carlosrox
You should've jumped on the train, dude. We were a man down!

Plus, I was already on an episode (and the youth is most definitely an illusion).


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:08:24
Anand said:@kriswright

Four Swords has gotta show up on Cafe eventually. Hopefully, Roll-o-Rama will, as well. And Nintendo Puzzle Collection and Donkey Kong Plus, the titles that you guys didn't give me time to mention!

Yeah. I'm sure when people listen to this podcast, they're going to say, "Man, if they'd only given Anand enough time to talk, already."

Kidding! Just kidding!


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:19:37  - Edited by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:20:04
Hey, verbal incontinence is a serious disease! I can't control it!


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:22:31
Nah, you're made for this stuff, man. You talked in coherent paragraphs and almost everything you said was interesting. Due respect.

I'm just upset we didn't get your Indian gutter story recorded.


Posted by 
 on: 05/16/11, 03:47:03
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