Which are you more interested in? Just curious. I used to be all up in that inside baseball stuff, but it bores the life out of me these days.

Discussing games with others is always fun, like discussing movies, comics, books, etc. But discussing business gives me no pleasure. It just leaves me feeling weary and empty inside. Especially since new revelations or opinions are rare, and everyone's just kind of talking out of their ass. I mean, people always assess things confidently with 20/20 hindsight, but nobody really knows what's going to happen in the future.

I dunno. What do you guys think? Do you enjoy endlessly postulating about the fortunes of first-party corporations, or do you just get sucked into the internet flow?

If you do, break the habit and talk games! I just tried the demo for Metal Gear Rising and the new Army of Two. Army of Two was surprisingly enjoyable, mainly due to the arcadey Overkill mode, and Metal Gear Rising was cool, but I'm not sure that I quite got the hang of the combat. I'll still get it, though. In Platinum, I trust.

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Good question. Hopefully a mix of both.

Do I enjoy it? Sometimes. But realistically it's usually just the same few topics over and over with a slightly new coat of paint, and that can get old.

My actual goal for the Internet in general in the last few years of my life, and one that I have stuck with, to some degree, is to not let arguments go for days on end. At a certain point I just to walk away. I'm sure some people take it as a sign of defeat and that I have nothing left to say, but usually I have a lot more to say, I'm just getting EXHAUSTED.

I don't really like talking gaming business but I can't help myself sometimes. I feel the need to challenge conventional wisdom, which is so often wrong. And I do wish people more often would make actual predictions instead of just talking in broad generalities, but I'm guilty of it myself, and really even if we could point and say "You were wrong about this", it wouldn't actually change anything.

I also don't really like talking about games, though. When I disagree with someone about a game, there's really no point in trying to change minds (and I wouldn't really want to make someone dislike a game they like if I could). When I agree with someone, there's really not much to say.

I guess what I like to talk about most is what I wish games were like. How good I think a 3D Metroid that really captured the original game's gameplay and feel could be, for example.

Anand, I share your opinions: talking business doesn't appeal to me, and all I really care about, for the most part anyway, is to talk games (which is why you'll see me posting in game discussion threads and game review threads, things of that nature).

Really, I feel there's no way I could even begin to claim to understand why business decisions are made. It's... interesting to see users debate, adamantly, why they think Company A is doing this or that compared to Company B, and I'll read through the debates, but I guess I just don't see the point, personally. I can understand the appeal though, and by no means should gaming business discussions be halted. It still has its merit on gaming boards, but it's just not for me.

Meh. I'm not that worked up about either. We could be talking about anything, here, as far as I'm concerned. The whole board could be focused on the music thread and I'd be fine with it.

I guess lately we've talked more about the business side, but that's because of the Wii U's recent struggles, I think. And the drought problems. I tried pretty hard to get a discussion about the new Dillon game going, but I'm apparently the only guy who bought it. And some game threads are full of spoilers - like the Lego City thread, where a few posters were talking openly about late game stuff without tagging it out. Sort of keeps me from participating in some of them as much as I'd like.

Jargon said:

And I do wish people more often would make actual predictions instead of just talking in broad generalities

This has come up a few times with you, and I think sometimes you want this because you want everything to be about who was right or wrong, whereas generally on my end (and probably other people making vague statements) I'm just kind of stating what I honestly think with the vague information that I have at hand, and therefore my thoughts on it are often vague too. But it's rarely about making a prediction that I can run back to later and say I was right (I don't even remember what I said a week ago, let alone months) so much as just kind of venting my current thoughts. I can't be worried about the fact that it won't be easy to definitively prove me wrong later on! That burden is on you, if it's important to you to prove people wrong later on for whatever reason.

Some message board fatigue combined with some real life exhaustion and a new soapbox to shout from have all contributed to make me post less than before. On RFN I'd rather talk about the games I've played, or the games other people have played. Topics in which I can contribute little anecdotes about what I know of the game or its development, and joke about the absurd aspects of it, or whatever. That stuff is fun. Speculation about Nintendo's upcoming games or gadgets is also fun. But the business stuff, the hardcore tech talk and the corporate structure talk? Snore.

On message boards I often give up typing up thoughts before I even start. I'm drawn to the threads about gaming current events, like the misogyny thread, but I don't post 10% of what I want to say. I'm just... tired.

As for game talk on message boards, while at work I often "plan to" talk in depth about what I'm playing when I actually have the time, but then I get home and prefer just to pick up a game instead.

The Nintendooom talk, wherever it is to be found (twitter, news, forums, podcasts) is never, ever fun. I can't stop myself clicking on those threads, but they can go fuck themselves. I can't stand the whining, the know-it-alls... it's so incredibly unfun.

I like to discuss the business side of games. When I'm not discussing, I'm playing.

I would much rather talk about the games, whether playing them or thoughts on upcoming games. The business stuff is occasionally interesting for a while but it gets old quick.

kriswright said:

Meh. I'm not that worked up about either. We could be talking about anything, here, as far as I'm concerned. The whole board could be focused on the music thread and I'd be fine with it.

That would be pretty awesome, actually. Also, I should point out that people can discuss whatever they want, of course. I'm just curious about how much they're actually enjoying the biz talk.

Speaking to what Zero said earlier, I realized about 5-7 years ago, after some time as a somewhat argumentative netizen, that I just wasn't enjoying a lot of those arguments. So I decided to only post things that were enjoyable for me to post. So, mostly just stupid jokes and sociological stuff.

Jargon said:

I also don't really like talking about games, though. When I disagree with someone about a game, there's really no point in trying to change minds (and I wouldn't really want to make someone dislike a game they like if I could). When I agree with someone, there's really not much to say.

I guess what I like to talk about most is what I wish games were like. How good I think a 3D Metroid that really captured the original game's gameplay and feel could be, for example.

I enjoy that stuff once in a while, too, but I don't like thinking too much about the world as I want it to be, in general. Seems like a recipe for disappointment. That said, Zelda 1 overworld with Zelda 2 dungeons! Make it fucking happen, Nintendo!

I think your perspective about discussing games is pretty interesting, since it differs so much from my own. I love discussing art or entertainment with other people. To me, it's not about changing opinions as much as just seeing different viewpoints. Maybe it's just the sociological thing again (which is also why I enjoy roundtables). And I also like trying to analyze the exact of mechanics of enjoyment. Like, which games have the best combo systems and why? But I think that few others find those kinds of mechanical discussions to be entertaining. Even for me, I don't really care to go into the minutiae of a game. Like, discuss every level. Just the mechanics. It's a very specific obsession.

Guillaume said:

As for game talk on message boards, while at work I often "plan to" talk in depth about what I'm playing when I actually have the time, but then I get home and prefer just to pick up a game instead.

I do something similar. Every time I play a demo or game that I really enjoy, I think, "Hey, I should share my thoughts about this game and see what everyone else thinks!" But then I get lazy for a few days, after which 99% of my thoughts and feelings (and passion about the topic) have vanished into the ether, Memento-style.

@roykoopa64
That's true! I've rarely seen you discuss that stuff.

I much prefer to talk about games. I read pretty much everything that people post on Twitter and Negative World, but honestly it feels like about 70% is business stuff, which is why I don't post as often as I normally would. Doesn't make sense to me.

Always been the games. Talking about the industry can be fun, but the past is only so interesting for so long, and the future doesn't offer much of a foundation to speculate from.

Guillaume said:

On message boards I often give up typing up thoughts before I even start. I'm drawn to the threads about gaming current events, like the misogyny thread, but I don't post 10% of what I want to say. I'm just... tired.

As for game talk on message boards, while at work I often "plan to" talk in depth about what I'm playing when I actually have the time, but then I get home and prefer just to pick up a game instead.

These are both true for me. I don't like to post while at work, but I'll lurk a bit on my phone, especially when a big announcement or event pops up. And in a lot of threads, the bulk of discussion seems like it's already run its course by the time I get home. What I was going to say has already been said in some form, or I feel like I won't generate much more discussion. So I just go play some Maboshi's Arcade instead.

Anand said:

And I also like trying to analyze the exact of mechanics of enjoyment. Like, which games have the best combo systems and why? But I think that few others find those kinds of mechanical discussions to be entertaining. Even for me, I don't really care to go into the minutiae of a game. Like, discuss every level. Just the mechanics. It's a very specific obsession.

Yeah I'm into that, too. I could talk all day about the controls and moveset in Super Mario 64 versus Sunshine, or how exactly 2D Sonic's physics devolved over two decades, or why Bit.trip Runner feels so wrong to me while HarmoKnight feels so right.

I only talk about games. I have never felt the need to discuss the gaming business. Plenty of people share my opinions and post stuff similar, but far more detailed to what I would post. And my IRL friends only care about the games, so we never talk business.

I like talking about games more than business, but sometimes the topics intertwine. I'm *mostly* cool with talking about one or the other though.

I hate talking about the Business. Annoying.

When we even break it down simply and start talking about companies, and directors, and writers, and composers; yuck. I just wanna play Donkey Kong and climb some ladders.

EDIT- I say "even" and "simply" because when I think "Business" I think stuff like projections, predictions, worry, DOOM, etc. Pachter can take a hike, and anyone else's name we know -- when in reality we probably shouldn't -- can sit and spin.

nate38 said:

Yeah I'm into that, too. I could talk all day about the controls and moveset in Super Mario 64 versus Sunshine...

Always a fun topic. I thought Sunshine's controls were absolutely sublime. Galaxy seemed like a step down. I think they slowed Mario down for the n00bs, or something.

In general, I always want my in-game character to move at double or triple the speed. Yet I don't enjoy Sonic. Strange.

I talk about games more than business but, I have no idea how this will change in the future when I start game developing more. I do enjoy talking about the business however.

Anand said:

Always a fun topic. I thought Sunshine's controls were absolutely sublime. Galaxy seemed like a step down. I think they slowed Mario down for the n00bs, or something.

In general, I always want my in-game character to move at double or triple the speed. Yet I don't enjoy Sonic. Strange.

Too true about Galaxy. Mario's top-speed is definitely lower, and with less emphasis on and control of momentum, it means less variability in his movement. Plus the spin-assist jumping means a less graceful and more jerky style of platforming.

Sunshine would have been best-ever if the FLUDD jetpack was a bit more user-friendly. The camera angle and turning controls with the standard nozzle are terrible. Could have used a long jump, too, but it wasn't that big a loss with FLUDD making up for it.

The thing about Sonic is that he's not just fast, he's friction-resistant and affected heavily by terrain. Pressing forward on the d-pad is like setting a skateboard into motion, rather than most games where it's closer to taking a step. And if you're on a hill and try to jump, you shoot backwards tangentially, rather than straight up. The constant momentum management necessitates a bit more babysitting to get him to make even short movements, especially if he's not on flat ground, but it also means you can make Sonic do some pretty amazing things with an incredibly sparse moveset and seemingly useless pieces of the stage once you're accustomed to it.



Right then, business! Umm...did you know no Sonic game has sold more than 460k in Japan? And that game was Sonic Adventure? Even the original only sold a quarter million. The Japanese don't really care for Sonic. They don't know what they're missing!

I definitely prefer to talk about games, the problem is that sometimes it can be tough to find game topics, even here. I don't like to talk business since we're consumers and most of that stuff shouldn't matter to us (except for those who have stock in these companies), but it's better than nothing.

I like talking about games when I actually get to sit down and play them. The only time I talk any kind of business is to enlighten those that arent into gaming (parent buying a console for their child or coworker asking about stocks).

My life just seems too busy now and I miss out on taking the time to just sit down and enjoy a game.

I discuss the games themselves more, although I read up a lot on the gaming industry. I just don't tend to share my thoughts on it as often, for some reason.