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Is Miyamoto interfering too much with other teams' games? [roundtable]
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Those who've been following Nintendo development lately know that Shigeru Miyamoto tends to "upend the tea table" at times. But for all the guy's solid contributions to Nintendo, a few of his recent interferences have left me scratching my head. It seems to have started with Super Mario Galaxy 2. Rosalina's storybook in the original Galaxy was an element that a lot of players enjoyed (even if it would've been nice to be able to skip it), and while SMG2 gets to the action in a quicker way, many feel that some of the charm is lost when that extra bit of atmosphere/backstory is missing. As it turns out, Miyamoto vetoed the idea of more story in Galaxy 2. A snippet: But does he really agree with his boss, or has Koizumi just been overruled? In an interview with Wired.com in 2007, Koizumi said that he’s been trying to sneak bits of story into Mario and Zelda games for his entire career at Nintendo, even as Miyamoto has been trying to keep them out.
I told Miyamoto about what Koizumi had said, and he looked slightly taken aback.
“He said that?”
“Yes.”
“Well, I put a stop to that at the beginning, this time,” he said, and for emphasis punched the air with his fist.Super Mario Galaxy's backstory added some development to Rosalina, but was it necessary? Shiggy says no.Now, I realize that story in Mario is a bit of a split subject, as many players feel SMG2's focus on platforming led to an ultimately stronger game that had better pacing. But it wasn't until a few months later where another platformer released that had some Miyamoto interference... After simply running back and forth for ten minutes and watching the animations of Donkey Kong turning around, Shigeru Miyamoto told Retro that it seemed like Donkey Kong was "blowing" when he created dust clouds. The "blow" mechanic used in Donkey Kong Country Returns was born from this off-handed remark.As it turns out, Miyamoto told Retro to put the blowing mechanic into Donkey Kong Country Returns. As much as I loved the game, I think the blowing was far too stop-and-go and unnecessary when you already had a much more visceral (and DK-ish) move with the ground slap. Eh.The main reason for this thread, though, is the recent talk of Miyamoto's involvement with Paper Mario: Sticker Star. From the latest Iwata Asks... Iwata: Miyamoto-san really persevered with Paper Mario this time. Exactly what was he particular about?
Tanabe: Aside from wanting us to change the atmosphere a lot, there were two main things that Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project—"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?" and "As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.
Iwata: That's a difficult task. In some ways that would be the exact opposite direction from recent games in the series.And now the consistently hilarious Bowser has no lines at all.Now, I know the guy created Mario, but the fact that he's poking his way into second party titles--RPGs, no less--and imposing some major rules like "No original characters" (PMSS has only a single one) and "Do we really need a story?" seems awfully invasive and myopic. On a side note, Yokota (Galaxy's outstanding composer) wanted to fully orchestrate the OoT 3D soundtrack, and Kondo told him to simply make it sound identical to the N64 version. So what do you guys think? Has Miyamoto gone mad with power? Is the rigid conservatism of Nintendo damaging the quality of its games? URL to share (right click and copy)
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11/29/12, 18:56 Edited: 11/29/12, 18:59
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I adore Miyamoto and usually agree with his input on games, so it is tough to answer. In cases like the original Metroid Prime, for example, it seems that the team really needed his guidance to help whip everything into shape... and I usually always agree with his opinion that less story is better. Usually always. In an RPG? Uhhh, not so much.
I do have to say, I preferred his role in the 80s and 90s, where he had more personal input on his own projects instead of having his hands in everything. I look forward to seeing him go back to such a role, as he has recently been talking about, perhaps still being asked to look games over and give advice when they are struggling.
One of the bummers about a lot of Nintendo's top talent is that they have been put into similar roles, overseeing things as a "producer" rather than being so directly involved. I don't like it. I gather that it is seen as a promotion and the idea is to mentor the younger staff and protect the future... but I'm a firm believer in the idea that somebody should keep doing what they are best at. Spielberg, while taking on a lot of producer roles, never stopped directing movies himself, and John Williams never stopped composing music. Let Miyamoto and Tezuka direct games again! Let Koji Kondo compose music! |
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Jeff Gurstmann did this hilarious monologue in one of the recent bombcasts about how somewhere in Nintendo's ranks there is a young designer who is "the one" (like Neo from the Matrix) who will eventually rise in the ranks and usurp Miyamoto and change the future of Nintendo by finally breaking away from their formulaic game designs and reinvigorating their major franchises, I LOLed.
But in all seriousness, I think having someone Miyamoto, who is a game design God, but from a different era, is a bit of a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because he's simply unwilling to compromise on stellar gameplay and impeccably polished game design, but it's also a curse because he's unwilling to let some of the younger people express themselves and shake-up some of their starting-to-get-tired formulas.
Nintendo is in a weird place right now, some of their games do need some serious refreshing, Zelda for example, I love OoT, but I don't want another OoT style game, we've had 4 in a row. If they did reinvent Zelda, change everything about it, maybe make it more open world like Elder Scrolls, or make Link a voiced character and add en elaborate cinematic story, it would really scary because they could screw it up and ruin everything we love (Other M, cough cough), but it would also be really exciting because it could be just as good as the old games yet not so predictable in the way it plays out. Imagining Nintendo creating a Mario game that felt as fresh as Mario 64, a Zelda game that felt as fresh as OoT, or a Metroid game that feels as fresh as Metroid Prime, makes me all giddy inside! But for that too happen, I do think Miyamoto will have to loosen the reigns a little, give the younger people a chance, maybe they mess it up... but it's worth the risk, IMO. |
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@TriforceBunBut it's pretty obvious from the start that this room is the "storybook" room. If you go to the trouble of returning to it, it's because you want to see the story. If anything, the fat star character in Galaxy 2 was a lot more annoying. Anyway, in general, I think an artist has to be free to do what he wants. Of course, since this is a team's work, guidance or help can be necessary, just like with movies, but if someone constantly messes with what you're trying to achieve, how can you have any sort of vision and express something that has real meaning and consistency for the audience? Like you pointed, the latest decisions from Miyamoto feel frankly out of touch, in a "er... what" way. The blowing is sort of painful. Even the scans in Metroid (not Miyamoto's idea, as far as I know) are arguable. |
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