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Lives may not add anything to the New Super Mario Bros. 2 formula... [roundtable]
... but do they really detract? You would think so, judging by NSMB2 reviews. People are really harping on it, but, as long as Nintendo isn't trying to make overall lives a limited resource, who gives a shit?

And when Nintendo DID try to make overall lives a limited resource, like in NSMB DS (with the checkpointing system), it seemed like most everyone complained about it!

I dunno. It may not be tight game design, but does it really matter? And in this case, shouldn't 'difficulty' be judged by the amount of attempts required per level, rather than the overall amount of lives? And wouldn't the true tension and difficulty come from Coin Rush, anyway?

Smleh. Nintendo probably should have upped the amount of coins required for a 1up, though. But maybe they didn't want to fuck up Mario's traditional economical system just for one game?

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Posted: 08/01/12, 23:09:24  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/12, 23:22:19
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Extra lives are a thing of the past that isn't really needed in games anymore.

I firmly believe the only reason Nintendo bothers to put "lives" in their Mario games is out of pure nostalgia (for the fans).

1up Mushrooms are so iconic!
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:12:44
1-ups are basically Mario's version of achievements.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:14:15  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/12, 23:14:28
As discussion in recent threads has pointed out, lives have been mostly irrelevant in Mario for years. Why is everyone bitching about it now?

Hell, I remember lives being basically irrelevant in Banjo-Kazooie too. You know what I did? Ignored it and kept playing. It's a throwback to an earlier time. Like an appendix.

People need to get over it.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:16:05  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/12, 23:16:44
Yeah, I think of the 1up as a symbolic thing, as well. It just weirds me out that so many consumers and game reviewers are nitpicking this aspect.

I mean, coins were largely symbolic, too, but this game actually justifies their existence. (I guess they already had meaning in multiplayer.)
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:17:34
Basically what has been said: Lives are pointless, but a Mario game without the familiar DO DO DEE DO DEE DEE of a 1up would be missing something.

I agree with Ananda, in that they should have made 500 coins the standard for a 1up in this game, thus making Mario's pointless stock of lives seem less ridiculous.

Edit - Maybe there's a SUPER SECRET when a person gets a million lives.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:20:11  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/12, 23:20:55
Like everyone else said, they've pretty much been pointless for awhile. Especially in the games where even after you save and quit, you still start with 5 the next time you play.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:27:55
Lives didn't add anything to the original NSMB on DS either and that game came out seven years ago and sold a bajillion copies. Just your typical gamer whining.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:31:39
I like that lives are still in there. Why take them out? BAM! There's a hundred coins and a 1-up! BAM! There's another hundred coins and a 1-up! Seems like it would feel good.
Posted: 08/01/12, 23:47:56

That's exactly what I was thinking, that 1ups are simply there for the nostalgia factor. Really though, why complain about it? Though one thing that COULD work I suppose is if the game was designed around the idea that you enter EACH level with a set amount of lives. 1ups that you gain within a level are kept within that level and dying restarts you at a checkpoint. Lose all lives and you start at the beginning of the level instead. Lives wouldn't carry over to other levels either.
Posted: 08/02/12, 00:14:50  - Edited by 
 on: 08/02/12, 00:15:29
That's an interesting idea. Maybe you could just have three lives/level.
Posted: 08/02/12, 00:19:29
I don't think anything should be adjusted. Who EXACTLY is doing the complaining?

Don't say Daemon Hetfield, that whelp.
Posted: 08/02/12, 01:33:33
That would require research...
Posted: 08/02/12, 02:05:27

I really like that idea, since you'd want to cherish every single life to make it through the level. Has a game ever used this idea? Because I can't think of any.
Posted: 08/02/12, 02:09:12
I think that in a portable title, the idea of a 1up is pretty archaic. The game saves after every completed level anyway (or at least it should).

Maybe they could keep lives, but just limit the number you can have? OR have a "pro" mode that either limits the lives you can get, or increases the amount of coins needed to earn a 1Up. Maybe you could cash in your 1Ups towards something to make the game more difficult (for a cool reward like an unlockable character or time trial mode).

You gotta have the 1up though. Even though the only game where I think 1Ups are TRULY valuable is Lost Levels, they have to be there. (In the Japanese SMB2, 1Ups are incredibly important. The game is too difficult otherwise. I actually try to get every coin I can when I play that game).
Posted: 08/02/12, 02:39:53
Maybe they could change it to 200 coins earning an extra life instead?
Posted: 08/02/12, 02:52:48

Ironically didn't they drop it to 50 coins for the Galaxy titles?
Posted: 08/02/12, 02:56:19
Yeah I think so but coins were harder to come by in that game too.
Posted: 08/02/12, 03:00:06
Moving forward if you want to keep the lives system for nostalgia's sake I think that's okay but then there needs to be an alternate use for them in game. Like unlocking concept art or a music player, things like that.
Posted: 08/02/12, 03:33:42

They're pretty valuable in the original if you're not using warps and are trying to beat the game without using the make shift continue.
Posted: 08/02/12, 03:34:06
I'm not really aware of the "whining", but it doesn't strike me as unreasonable to want the lives to be made relevant again. I mean, if you're going to have them, might as well at least ATTEMPT to make them more than just decoration. No?
Posted: 08/02/12, 06:57:36
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