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Okay! Let's analyze the Wii's market and do the CEOs' jobs for them! [roundtable]
After all, those guys aren't paid well enough to actually do some legwork. They'd need contractual stipulations for Platinum parachutes, at the very least.

SO! I am going to break down the notable Wii games into different categories, based on quality, price, appeal, marketing budget, etc. Some of that stuff is subjective, so you guys can check and balance my lists/suggest different categories/whatever. After the list is finalized, we can include sales and try to draw some real conclusions about what will and won't work on the Wii (maybe even breaking it down into different regions). Like, FOR REAL.

First/Second-Party games with Minimal Marketing
Excite Truck
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast (Poor?)
Battalion Wars 2
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Wario Land: Shake It
Endless Ocean
Mario Super Sluggers (Poor?)
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat

First/Second-Party games with Marketing Support
Wii Sports
The Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Play (Poor?)
Super Paper Mario
Mario Party 8 (Poor?)
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Pokémon Battle Revolution (Poor?)
Mario Strikers Charged
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Super Mario Galaxy
Link's Crossbow Training
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Poor?)
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Wii Fit
Wii Music (Poor?)
Animal Crossing: City Folk (Poor?)
New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis (Poor?)
New Play Control Pikmin
Wii Sports Resort
Metroid Prime: Trilogy
Wii Fit Plus
New Super Mario Bros. Wii
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Poor?)

Quality (or Notable) Third-Party Games
Trauma Center: Second Opinions
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Red Steel?
Call of Duty 3?
Madden NFL 07?
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Metal Slug Anthology
Super Swing Golf
Sonic and the Secret Rings
SSX Blur
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Kororinpa: Marble Mania
The Godfather: Blackhand Edition
Mortal Kombat: Armageddon
Resident Evil 4 Wii
Madden NFL 08
Mercury Meltdown Revolution
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08
Dewy's Adventure
Dragon Blade Wrath of Fire?
Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party
MLB Power Pros
FIFA Soccer 08
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core
Rockstar Table Tennis
Clash of Ninja Revolution
Zack & Wiki
Guitar Hero III?
Manhunt 2?
LEGO Star Wars?
Mario & Sonic at the Olympics?
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Medal of Honor Heroes 2?
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Soul Calibur Legends!
Trauma Center: New Blood
Ghost Squad
Puzzle Quest?
Super Swing Golf 2
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
Nights: Journey of Dreams
Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity?
Harvey Birdman?
Samurai Warriors Katana?
One Piece Unlimited Adventure
No More Heroes
Bomberman Land
Karaoke Revolution American Idol?
Dragon Quest Swords
Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection
Worms: A Space Oddity?
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return
Sega Superstars Tennis?
Emergency Mayhem?
Target Terror!
Heavenly Guardian?
Speed Racer?
Boom Blox
Castle of Shikigami III?
Deca Sports?
We Ski?
The Monkey King?
Death Jr.?
Lego Indiana Jones?
Blast Works
Rock Band
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith?
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
We Love Golf?
Rock Band Track Pack?
Order Up
SNK Arcade Classics Volume 1
MLB Power Pros 2008
Madden NFL 09 All-Play
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09 All-Play
Active Life: Outdoor Challenge?
DDR Hottest Party 2?
de Blob
LEGO Batman?
Lost in Blue: Shipwrecked?
Samba de Amigo?
Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility
Line Rider 2: Unbound?
Sam & Max Season One
FIFA Soccer 09 All-Play?
Dokapon Kingdom?
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows?
Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution 2
Guitar Hero: World Tour
Nerf: N-Strike?
Rubik's World?
Monster Lab?
WWE Smackdown Vs. Raw 2009
Hasbro Family Game Night?
Call of Duty: World at War
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Mushroom Men?
Shaun White Snowboarding: Road Trip?
Karaoke Revolution American Idol Encore?
Castlevania Judgement?
Tomb Raider Underworld?
Rock Band Track Pack Volume 2?
Sonic Unleashed?
Rayman Raving Rabbids TV Party?
Skate It?
Cooking Mama: World Kitchen?
The King of Fighters Collection?
Ultimate Shooting Collection?
Neopets Puzzle Adventure?
Rock Band 2
Fishing Master World Tour?
Rygar: The Battle of Argus?
Tenchu: Shadow Assassins
Deadly Creatures?
Oneechanbara: Bikini Zombie Slayers?
NASCAR Kart Racing?
House of the Dead: Overkill
Dead Rising: Chop till you Drop??
We Ski & Snowboard?
Sonic and the Black Knight?
Rune Factory Frontier
Marble Saga Kororinpa?
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time?
Guitar Hero Metallica?
Major Minor's Majestic March?
Party Pigs: Farmyard Games!! (WTF)
Burger Island!! (WTF again)
Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus
Boom Blox Bash Party
Rock Band Track Pack Classic Rock?
EA Sports Active?
Samurai Shodown Anthology?
MotoGP '08
The Munchables?
Grand Slam Tennis
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09
Let's TAP
Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil?
Dawn of Discovery
Overlord: Dark Legend?
The Conduit?
Reel Fishing Challenge?
Little King's Story
Real Heroes: Firefighters?
Active Life: Extreme Challenge?
Madden NFL 10?
Spectrobes: Origins
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody?
Cursed Mountain?
Guitar Hero 5
Mini Ninjas?
Muramasa The Demon Blade
The Beatles Rock Band
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash Up?
Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga?
Deca Sports 2?
MySims Agents?
Dead Space: Extraction?
Spore Hero?
A Boy and His Blob
Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games?
WWE Smackdown Vs. Raw 2010?
FIFA Soccer 10?
Nerf N-Strike Elite?
Dance Dance Revolution Hottest Party 3/
Hasbro Family Game Night 2?
Drawn to Life: The Next Chapter (that's right!)
LEGO Rock Band?
Need for Speed Nitro?
Rabbids Go Home
Band Hero?
Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage?
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010
Harvest Moon Animal Paradise?
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex
EA Sports Active More Workouts?
LEGO Indiana Jones 2?
Just Dance!
Jambo Safari?
Naruto Shippuden: Clash of Ninja Revolution 3
Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles
Your Shape?
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
Monster Hunter Tri
Final Fantasy Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces
Walk It Out!
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle
Shiren the Wanderer
Super Monkey Ball: Step and Roll?
Sonic & Sega: All-Stars Racing?

Third-Party Successes (Worldwide numbers taken from VGChartzzzlol)
Guitar Hero 3 (Activision) 4.38 mil
Carnival Games (Take 2) 3.55 mil
Guitar Hero: World Tour (Activision) 3.37 mil
Lego Star Wars (LucasArts) 3.36 mil
EA Sports Active (EA) 2.73 mil
Sonic and the Secret Rings (Sega) 2.20 mil
Game Party (Midway) 2.17 mil
Deca Sports (Hudson) 2.17 mil
My Fitness Coach (Ubisoft) 1.69 mil
Raving Rabbids 2 (Ubisoft) 1.68 mil
Resident Evil 4 Wii (Capcom) 1.67 mil
Raving Rabbids (Ubisoft) 1.66 mil
Raving Rabbids TV Party (Ubisoft) 1.61 mil
Lego Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures (LucasArts) 1.60 mil
MySims (EA) 1.51 mil
High School Musical: Sing It! (Disney) 1.49 mil
Big Beach Sports (THQ) 1.48 mil
Sonic Unleashed (Sega) 1.46 mil
Lego Batman (Warner Brothers) 1.46 mil
Shaun White Snowboarding (Ubisoft) 1.45 mil
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed (LucasArts) 1.45 mil
Call of Duty: World at War (Activision) 1.42 mil
Cooking Mama: Cook Off (Majesco) 1.42 mil
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz (Sega) 1.40 mil
Tiger Woods PGA Tour '08 (EA) 1.38 mil
Just Dance (Ubisoft) 1.37 mil
We Ski (Namco Bandai) 1.37 mil
Rock Band (EA) 1.36 mil

(This is too time-consuming, so I'm changing the format)

Active Life: Outdoor Challenge Namco Bandai ai 1.35
Call of Duty 3 Activision 1.33
Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles Capcom 1.32
Game Party 2 Midway Games 1.32
Smarty Pants EA 1.29
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 09 All-Play EA Sports 1.28
Hannah Montana: Spotlight World Tour Disney 1.28
Dance Dance Revolution: Hottest Party Konami 1.27
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Lightsaber Duels LucasArts 1.20
Red Steel Ubisoft 1.19
The House of the Dead 2 & 3 Return Sega 1.17
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 Konami 1.13
Monopoly EA 1.12
Ben 10: Protector of Earth D3 1.11
Carnival Games: Mini Golf 2K Play 1.11
MySims Kingdom Electronic Arts 1.11
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith Activision 1.08
The Beatles: Rock Band MTV 1.07
Jillian Michaels' Fitness Ultimatum 2009 Majesco 1.04
Boom Blox Electronic Arts 1.03
Disney Sing It Disney 1.01
Monster Hunter Tri Capcom 1.01
FIFA 08 EA 1.00
High School Musical 3: Senior Year DANCE! Disney 0.99
Monster 4x4: World Circuit Ubisoft 0.99

It goes on like that for a while... Excuse me for a second. I'm going to be sick.


*Wipes mouth*

Okay, so we know that shit can sell...

This is taking a long time, so I'll finish later. The lists of (roughly chronological) first-party stuff and (ranked by sales) third-party million-sellers are pretty much done. The notable third-party game list, I've compiled chronologically, but haven't categorized. Were any of those marketed heavily? And what categories do you guys think the third-party games should be broken into? Any more feedback you can give is welcome. And if you want to just edit my post and do the work for me, you are more than welcome.

Man, that million-sellers list is CHILLING. For shame, third-parties and Wii audience. For shame.

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Posted: 02/18/10, 23:53:54  - Edited by 
 on: 02/19/10, 17:34:54
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I would like to the discussion, but first Muramasa, Little King Story, and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers need added to the quality 3rd party games.

But from what I have seen on the Wii is how advertising is mainly first party nintendo games (not all) and the ocassional 3rd party attempt which is what we saw with the sega "hardcore" games. All of which, in he long run became successful and profitable (so why is sega bitching?) What baffles me is excitebots stealth release last year only in the states. According to VGChartz the game managed to sell 140,000 copies, which IMO is a success considering all the assets were used from excitetruck, the game had no advertising, and it was released in one area. Nintendo ignores this game but it was not a loss and monster games had no lay offs.

The Wii is in a rut much like the ps2 was when it launched. New engines needed to be made and new games thought of. We have seen some great engines and IP's come out this generation so far. Madworld, Silent Hill Shettered Memories, Little King Story, Muramasa, FFCC:CB etc etc. These companies need to pull a page out of Ninty's book and do what they did with excitebots. Take you already in place engine and develop new gameplay ideas and your dev time will be much smaller since you can pull from your previous games assets resulting in more polish time and hopefully more sales.

Silent Hill is the best example. The fact that the game did not have a gun hurt its sales in my opinion. This game already sold more than homecoming and you know the devs atleast made their money back. Here is what needs to happen, the devs need to take SH:SM's engine and make a sequal to the game, throw in a gun and make the blizzard sequances fun to play. This would take you what? 8 months top to make up a new story and a new setting, keep the graphics, interface, controls, presentation but add a gun and new areas and you will have a hit on your hands.

FFCC:CB. Square enix, for the love of god, KEEP THIS WORLD. The game world for this game is one of the best ever created and can be crafted into a great dungeon crawler. You can make it a 4 player online game running in 3d with actual sword and gun combat and loot grinding to advance characters. Reuse the world, keep the the same, keep the graphics the same, just return the franchise to its roots and give it online multiplaying loot grinding PSO style. THe hardest work is done, the enging and world is build, now give us new gameplay content and ideas that take place in this world.

Little King Story could use a sequal that has identical gameplay but setting changes and i will still buy it. But devs need to add IR pointing, more unique boss fights, a larger kingdom, the same charm, the same humor and the same graphics can make for a short developed sequal.

The problem 3rd parties are having is they make these great games running on great engines and then they abandon what they made. Milk your engines and worlds. THE HARD WORK IS DONE. THE IPs WERE MADE AS WERE THE ENGINES. RE USE YOUR DAMN ASSETS AND MAKE GREAT GAMES WITH THEM.

this will make your dev times for a new game much much cheaper and allow for innovation and profits.
Posted: 02/19/10, 00:19:13  - Edited by 
 on: 02/19/10, 00:21:06
How can something like Carnival Games sell over 3 million units and the developer of the title not take one look at that and say, "hey, maybe we could take a shot at something quality and advertise it on this system, since this budget release is a neverending gold mine." I don't know. Perhaps I'm over-simplifying? I really don't think I am. I think the rest of it is just paper tigers, slippery slopes, or denial. Occam's razor is my friend.
Posted: 02/19/10, 01:13:33
Well, the developer of Carnival Games, Farsight Studios, has actually made one of my most played games on the Wii... Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection.

Probably not exactly what you have in mind, I know, but I don't think there's anything wrong with making these types of games . They found a niche and it's working for them, you know?
Posted: 02/19/10, 01:25:25
I think the Carnival Games developer did that mini-golf game as well, which was a cool idea but apparently sucked.

Did Monster 4x4: World Circuit really sell a million copies on the Wii?!

Hmm. Oh wait, it was a launch game. AND came with a wheel. I guess that makes sense.

I still stand by my article I'm too lazy to post as to what can sell on the Wii, but I admit it isn't based off real data (since, you know, there isn't much real data on the type of game I think would sell, since few exist) but more just minor trends I have seen and what I will call my own instincts and common sense.
Posted: 02/19/10, 05:44:24
Wii just needs some sort of stantard engine that can help produce games at a cheaper cost. Devs had to remake engines for the wii so tehy can make brand new games and now they are just ignoring what else they can do with the engines in place. I think for nintendo to be successful for their next system then need to release a dev kit and create a graphic engine as appealing as unreal 3 so that third parties can spend more time developing ideas and not graphics (some can argue that they do not focus on graphics at all now but that is because they have to do it from scratch)
Posted: 02/19/10, 06:17:05
Epic is too busy porting Unreal to the iPhone to worry about the Wii.

But engines should already be in place from last-gen. Companies who supported the Gamecube somewhat should already have a step up. So... Capcom?
Posted: 02/19/10, 16:24:01
I don't want to get too involved in this, because I could spend years of my life detailing everything and I have work to do. I will say, though, that Mario Power Tennis Wii should be in the "High" to "Extremely high" marketing category. For about three months it was the sole showcase game at Gamestops, Best Buys, and some Walmarts. If that isn't marketing, I don't know what is.
Posted: 02/19/10, 17:24:10
Okay, I'll move it. I am very unsure about the marketing levels, since I don't really watch TV or go to game stores too often these days. I only read comics, and EVERYTHING gets advertised in those.
Posted: 02/19/10, 17:33:58
I may be crazy, but is De Blob not on any list? It was a great 3rd party successful game. Is it there, or am I blind?
Posted: 02/19/10, 19:46:40
Control-F, dog. It's kind of buried in the third-party list, because I haven't categorized them yet. They're just in chronological order. And, according to VGChartzzzz, it didn't clear a million, so it isn't listed under successes, although it was obviously successful. It was actually pretty well marketed, too, come to think of it. I remember it being packaged with free shirts, and such.
Posted: 02/19/10, 19:52:18
Wow, kinda interesting to see what really sells on Wii. Apparently, the majority of the Wii audience likes to buy garbage. I mean, WTF? Jillian Michael's Fitness Ultimatum? Game Party 2? Freakin' SMARTY PANTS?!?

It's obviously "casuals" buying these games. (even though casuals only buy the system and nothing else, according to haters/trolls) I'm just... shocked. SHOCKED!

.... well, I'm not that shocked.
Posted: 02/19/10, 22:13:45
I see what you did there Fry
Posted: 02/19/10, 23:00:29
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