This is one game where I feel that both the Wii Remote and Wii U tablet controller would significantly benefit the gameplay (pointer controls, streamlined visor combat/interaction). You could also use the touch screen for mode/item selections and the map. I'd rather have this option than be forced to choose between the two.

What do you guys think? Yea? Nay? WTF?

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@Renjaku

Is this a joke question? How about because without roll you wouldn't be able to produce every angle? What kind of question is that?

Please tell me that you don't think that moving the sword around in a circle like a clock is producing every angle, because you're 100% wrong.

Whether it's a clock or mapped to a sphere, it's the same.

I'm not kidding. What happens in SS when you swing in a direction that isn't aligned with the expected roll angle? Does Link swing at the roll angle anyway?

@Renjaku

It can't be mapped to a sphere if there isn't enough range to map it. Analog sticks are like half-spheres.

But that's besides the point because we're talking about roll rotation, which is something that analog sticks can't do at all (if they could, you'd be able to turn them like screws).

Anyway, what you're referring to is translational movement, which is done without rotation. Skward Sword's engine tracks this as well, so when the wiimote strike's without rotation, Link's sword does the same.

What I have in mind is the analog stick can 'place' the sword in all the same places the remote can in SS. The sword is like a dot on a sphere. There's no other information besides the position/velocity/acceleration of the dot on this sphere that is being used in SS, that I can tell. Or no?

Analog sticks can put a dot on a sphere with all that info too if you stretch the range in game to stretch the half sphere to full sphere, as awkward as that would be.

@Renjaku

The problem with mapping to such a sphere is that it cannot account for rotational angles.

For instance, say you held the sword straight up (pulling the analog stick down/towards you), if you simply delegated the movement on the sphere to the position of the sword, and the sword was placed so that you could slice vertically, you would never be able to slice horizontally, because only the arm would be moving, not the wrist.

The wiimote is mapped to a sphere in a sense, but in addition to that, it has one crucial component: roll rotation. While the pitch and yaw control the position of the sword, roll controls the angle at which the sword is tilted.

You can NOT have all 3 rotations mapped to the analog stick. It's impossible.

Oh, so it's possible to instantly slice horizontally even while the sword is positioned straight up. To do it...you would hold the remote in front of you so that it's pointing up, then translate your arm horizontally, and it won't mind if you kept the remote pointed up through the whole motion, you'll get a horizontal swing.

That's convenient. But the sword isn't shaped like a fan, you won't be hitting enemies with the blunt side of your sword versus the edge, I'd think.

@Renjaku

You can move the sword down vertically while holding it horizontally (the blunt side of the sword).

Skyward Sword's engine knows the difference between you moving the sword around and actually making a strike. It does this by measuring the strength of the accelerometer. There are separate animations for both types of motion. Rotational motions have procedural animations, and actual strikes have canned animations.

I wonder if the procedural animations are used for any gameplay. There's the door eyeballs and Girahim, but they only seem to respond to the sword's pure position and speed.

Actually, I've been thinking for a while there maybe a fan dungeon item, because it would use WM+ even more functionally than the sword does because of how relevant its 'blunt' side is.

I guess I don't quite understand why mapping the swing to the circle pad would only limit you to slashing horizontally, vertically, and diagonally. If there's 360 degrees on the analog stick, shouldn't anything in between register? If you push the stick up, Link slashes up. If you push it down, he slashes down. If you push it diagonally, he slashes diagonally. If you push it slightly diagonally, couldn't he just swing at whatever angle you pushed the analog pad?

Maybe we're imagining different things, but I was kind of thinking of the way it worked in Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker....But instead of having to worry about whether you're locked on or not, or whether you're pressing forward on the left stick, you'd just push the right stick/pad in the direction you want Link to slash. So no, maybe it's not as accurate as the Wiimote setup, but you could at least still have those kind of enemies that need to be attacked horizontally or vertically, while having the tablet right there to pick your weapons and whatnot. I actually think it could be a cool way to compromise between the intricate sword slashing of SS with a new tablet layout.

@PogueSquadron

Those controls only work if they are setup up as digital commands. You could do the same thing with a d-pad if you wanted to.

The problem arises when you're trying to map 1:1 motion controls. There simply isn't enough input information in an analog stick. 360 degrees only accounts for the degrees in a circle. It is not enough data for free movement in a 3-dimensional space.

@PogueSquadron In SS you can orient your sword first, then on top of that swing in any direction. It's like an analog stick on top of an analog stick. It might seem like overkill but it would smooth things out, like being able to swing in any direction quickly while you are pointing up to sword charge.

Then there's rolling motion. Not sure how it's going to be used yet, but no reason it can not.

@Renjaku

The beetle uses the rolling motion. And to snap back a whip accurately, you need pitch, roll, and yaw.

EDIT:

You also need roll for the bow and arrow when the wiimote is held vertically.

EDIT 2:

And again, the door puzzles require pitch, roll, and yaw.

@casper884 I wasn't really counting spots where you don't get to control Link at the same time, like the beetle and door puzzles.

The whip on the other hand sounds promising now. Nobody talks about it...

@Renjaku

I know! It's going to feel so satisfying lashing that thing around. The thing about using 1:1 controls for a whip is that it is very important to get the physics right because its movement is so dynamic yet subtle, and will require a lot of finesse from the player, so they need accurate feedback in order to control it properly.

I guess I see what you're saying, but on a base level, I guess I don't see what the problem would be. Link's swinging animations are canned anyway, right? I'm not saying it would be the same controls, but it would offer the same fundamental idea - Link can easily swing his sword in any direction, without having to do the things that OoT and WW did to accomplish the same task.

There'd definitely be sacrifices if you wanted to strictly use the tablet. I mean, you wouldn't be able to draw the bow back and do the whip and that kind of stuff, but you'd still be able to retain the basic ideas behind the sword fighting. I guess I don't really feel like motion control for the bow and other items is essential in the series moving forward. I just think right circle pad controls for the sword would be a cool way to keep the basic ideas of the SS sword swinging, while being able to strictly use the tablet. It's kind of an in-between step between the way it is in OoT and SS.

Edit: I could be wrong on this, but doesn't Monster Hunter do something similar to this?

@PogueSquadron

Yep, Monster Hunter does do something similar to this, but it pales in comparison to 1:1 sword fighting. And that's the thing, trying to make this work with an analog stick would be moving backwards. The gameplay would be simplified. I think once you play Skyward Sword, you will change your mind. Playing is believing.

Anyway, while the actual striking motions for Skyward Sword are canned, there are hundreds of different animations that Link would have, depending on how the sword is oriented, compared to the 8 canned animations you could get with an analog stick. The canned animations in Skyward Sword aren't limiting in any way because there are only so many different types and angles of strikes the human arm can physically make. The canned animations are implemented in the first place to make it easier to animate the rest of Link's body, since the human body will always move ever-so-slightly regardless of how you strike. You can still strike any way you want. The canned animations with the analog stick are completely different because they limit what you can actually do with the sword.

@casper884

Did you say that you can hit people with a blunt side of the sword? I easily could have misunderstood. I am also not saying that is inherently bad. I feel that that could turn into something interesting, but can easily be annoying. I'm just lookng for clarification.

@Wilie345

No. I was saying that you can move the sword up and down (like a fan) with the blunt side of the sword. You can't actually hit someone like that. Skyward Sword registers moving the sword around, and actually striking the sword in a certain direction, as separate types of motions.

EDIT:

If you tried to horizontally strike an enemy with the blunt side of your sword (like a backhand slap, or 'bitch slap', if you will, lol), the game would just register it as a horizontal slice with the edge of the sword, and do the appropriate animation.

Like the demo at E3 fighting Ghirahim. I saw video of a guy moving the sword around but not actually swinging to attack because Ghirahim was waiting to grab it. So you were saying that one could move the sword around without actually striking anything so I'm going to assume that it doesn't require twisting your wrist to trigger the movement without slashing, it would just require slower movement, right? That makes total sense, but curiosity got the best of me and I had to ask.

@Wilie345

Right, you don't have to twist wrist to move it around without attacking. And actually, you don't even have to do it slowly. You can quickly move it around without attacking too. It only registers as an attack when the force of the motion goes past a certain threshold. It really is 1:1.