I rewatched Jonathan Blow's talk Video Games and the Human Condition the other day, and it made me think about Pikmin 4. Game design elements like missions, plot, and experience points are extraneous to the "essence" of games, but they undoubtedly keep players engaged. The question is to what extent your game should lean on these tools.

Pikmin 1 was a pretty hardcore game that didn't have most of this. It was pure! And for that reason... Pikmin as a series never really took off. Now we have Pikmin 4, with its constant dialogue, linear story, and sub-objectives paced to Keep The Player Engaged™... and while it does feel a little blasphemous, for the most part it's done tastefully, only enough to help people learn how to enjoy Pikmin. Nintendo tried doing it the non-manipulative way and it didn't work, so I can't fault them for dipping into the bag of tricks just a little for the sake of onboarding.

@Secret_Tunnel I feel like Nintendo could have added all of that stuff without all of the dialog though. It's not the worst thing ever but I hate that to you have to individually talk to the individual responsible for the side stuff. I go out a few days without talking to anyone and then I have like 15 people to talk to at once. OOF.

@Secret_Tunnel
Yep yep. It's tricky because I fall into that "trap" myself at times ("Ooh, I bet I can afford that next upgrade now!") but it does seem kind of cynical and manipulative on occasion.

@Zero
Besides Oatchi's attacks being OP, this is my biggest problem so far too. It reminds me of FE: Three Houses where there's all this fluffy stuff between the game's best aspect, the nitty-gritty gameplay. It's tedious to talk to someone just to check the Piklopedia, and I'm getting a little tired of the whole "this character has one obvious trait that they keep harping on about" in games. I'm all for personality, but if I hear that inventor go on about the "power of science" one more time...

I noticed this fluff in WarioWare: Get It Together and Kirby and the Forgotten Land too. It's like a new manifestation of the Wii era's condescending tutorials.

Like I said in the TOTK thread, it's frustrating because they're such stickler purists in other ways (see: Paper Mario and the "Miyamoto hates stories" meme). If they're going to deviate from quiet gameplay, it would be nice if they did it well! Either keep plot out of Pikmin or make it good.

Holy cow, this game basically has its own Pikmin 1 inside of it as a side mode?!

@Zero

Yeah, I was surprised too. I had a good time with it. It was more stressful than the Pikmin 4 base game!

Way more stressful! I ultimately finished it in 13 days but man... it keeps the pressure on. I missed that in the core game.

I'm doing the other Olimar stuff now and dang... these are tough! Some of them took me forever to finish. And only halfway through!

Also, this kept happening...

R U SERIOUS??? #Pikmin4 #Pikmin #NintendoSwitch pic.twitter.com/eqH9lIPbS0

— My Game Videos (@MyGameVideos) September 1, 2023

Just thought I'd share Orioto's latest art from this week. Pikmin 4!! Looks great as always. I bought one based off Pikmin a long time ago. It still looks awesome in my gaming room. Here's his links for the interested.

Orioto's RedbubbleOrioto's Patreon

@Zero

I probably spent two hours optimizing my strategy for that ice level! I've been loving them, and I've only done the first three so far.

Alright, finished everything! I didn't try to platinum all the dandoris or anything but I completed everything in the game. Even Louie's pointless side quests.

Damn, what a solid sequel. They packed so much into this.

In-game playtime was 41 hours,

100%ed the game last night! All treasures, all castaways, all missions (except for the pointless ones Zero mentioned), all platinum medals. 45 hours, 60 in-game days.

I loved it! The level design here was really spectacular. Each Dandori challenge has a very clear "point" to it that once you understand, lets you beat the level qualitatively faster, and these points are communicated really cleverly via all the new gameplay elements. The way these challenges are weaved into the main story, along with so many little touches like the new camera angle, makes the whole thing feel really cohesive and filling.

Definitely the definitive Pikmin game. Would be an easy GOTY if it wasn't for Zelda.

@Hero_Of_Hyrule

I don't blame you! Pikmin 4 is crazy polished.

My contrarian power level is so high that I put Pokemon Violet over Elden Ring.

@Hero_Of_Hyrule @Secret_Tunnel
I think I unwittingly have a huge hipster power level without even realising it, as for me, Zelda isn't even in contention for GotY! And last year I also had Kirby and Pokémon Violet far above Elden Ring, and Pokémon Legends was higher as well.

Is my hipster level the highest? Do I win anything for this? Wait, what I get is... disdain from everyone here?! Hm, I'm uh, not so sure I want this prize...!

@Mop it up

Mop it up said:

For better or worse, they seem to be leaning heavily into the streamer crowd with this one.

This might be the most unintentionally biting criticism I've ever read!

I'm sorry!

Mop it up said:

I'm sorry!

Don't be, it's admirable!