Finally uploaded my first level. I tried to make it fairly forgiving.

Looming Lava - RVQ-2VT-QDG


I've also started to play some of the levels posted here. They're really good so far!

This game definitely gives me empathy for game designers. I spent so much time gimping the difficulty of my last stage, kind of disappointed by how easy I made it from the original plan, but then most people apparently still can't clear it. I guess this is why game testers are important, huh?

I'm still impressed by how many good levels come up randomly in Endless Mode. I expected the worst but I'm constantly happy with what people are making.

@Hinph
To be fair, the clear rates are pretty ridiculous. Does everyone suck at Mario? Clear rates for my second stage are low and that stage is NOT hard.

@canonj
Gonna try yours now.

I wanna try at least one of everyone's before I try the rest.

@carlosrox

That's a relief. I don't really struggle with your guys' levels either unless they are intentionally made to be brutal. I think maybe there's just a great deal of people who suck at 2D Mario games. I guess a lot of us have been playing these since the 80's and have superior skills.

I don't think Donkey Kong Country Returns or Tropical Freeze are as tough as people say either.

@Hinph

So far I think your levels are pretty up there in the challenge Hinph.

That said, the clear rates are measured by attempts. So I think generally it'll be low for most levels. If you look at how many people played your level and completed it, that's a more true completion rate, which can be perceived in the section which shows you your flags and likes. It doesn't calculate that though, which is a shame.

I believe it works like, if three people play.a level, and each tries 3 times to beat it and all do so on their third try... it'll show a 33.3% clear rate (3/9) instead of 100% (3/3).

@DrFinkelstein

Makes sense. I just noticed a 20% clear rate upon being the first to finish Ploot's newest level. Thought it was a nice challenge and died several times, but it wasn't frustrating. I guess the clear percentage isn't that important, especially on longer levels.

I think it's all about giving players checkpoints and adequate powerups. I love challenge but not lengthy repetition.

Also, the Igarashi rule. If the level designer can't get through a level without taking any damage, it's a bullshit design. That should straight up be one of the requirements before submitting a level.

@Hinph

I definitely agree in principle, but some levels use taking damage as part of their design because of the rather unique way the Mario games change your size with health--for instance, if they want you to be Super Mario in one section and then Small Mario in the next (to get through narrow gaps or something).

I'll add everyone over the weekend, and once I get a level uploaded, I'll post it here.

Creator of Celeste made some levels. Check ‘em out:

CLICK!

One important thing to remember when creating levels is that your level is always going to be far easier for you to complete than it will be for anyone else. There can be a variety of reasons for this, including that you built it around your particular set of skills or playstyle; you have intricate knowledge of the stage and know exactly what to do and when to do it; you may have practiced certain sections many times in the editor to test out how things work; most players are probably not playing the stage the exact way you did yourself / the way you intended it; and probably some other reasons I'm forgetting at this time.

Difficulty is a case where getting feedback from other people can be really helpful, since they're going to be a better judge of its difficulty than the creator.

One thing I did with the first Mario Maker was to have my wife play my levels before I uploaded them. I’d watch where she had major issues and “repair” the design. It really helped getting quality levels out, and thus loads of plays.

I didn’t do this for my first two uploads in MM2, so I feel they might be harder than they should be. Maybe? I was too excited!

I tend to try and make my levels way easier than I think they should be. And maybe I went too far with my first upload because last I checked, it had a completion rate of around 60%. I suppose vertical levels are generally easier since there's often no (or not many) bottomless pits, so you can really only die from an enemy (or in my level, the rising lava).

@canonj
You could always add spike traps in lieu of bottomless pits.

I did find that your rising lava gave a lot of room for error. I appreciated that as I hunted the big coins.

@ploot

That's true. I wish there were more than 3 speed settings for the lava, but I probably should have designed the level better to account for the slower lava speed. Oh well.

By the way, your first level was about the perfect difficulty level for me! Nice job!

@TriforceBun

Yeah doubt Nintendo would actually implement such a requirement for completion, but it's a good rule for everybody to keep in mind, and definitely something all professional action game designers should follow. I hate games where it is literally impossible to not take damage! *growl*

@canonj

Yup, I learned from the first game to always do a final pass with each course where I add some foam to sharp corners and make each section a bit easier than I think it should be, so long as it doesn't break anything. I wish we could modify our courses without deleting and reuploading them so we could actually make use of the feedback and maybe redesign areas with too many red x's where we didn't necessarily want people having too much trouble. I don't want to lose my comments and likes because they make me feel good inside.

With the last game, I was also uploading hard versions of some of my courses, the way that I really wanted them to be, and using the NSMB theme for the easier versions since wall jumps and the air twirl move generally helps. I might do that again here and there, because I really doubt I'm ever going to use up all 32 course slots... will probably get bored with making courses in a few months again and move on, if I know myself.

@Mop it up

I have one friend who would be great to use to get feedback, but we only get to hang out once or twice a month due to adult life being nonsense slavery. I'd actually love to design a course with him. It'd be really neat if they would make some collaboration feature where you can do this all online with voice chat and stuff, maybe both working on the level in your available time until you're both satisfied... but Nintendo would never do anything like that, sadly.

I wish it was a little easier to playtest a level. The in-editor thing is good but is there a way to do it where you don't get kicked back to the editor?

I made my second stage.

HGO-5XR-S1G

There’s even one very, very, very easy secret key to find.
Thanks to the people who have played my first level. I’m trying to keep up with everyone’s courses.

@ploot

I'll play it upon my next boot up.

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I just made my fourth level, which I think is my best yet. Hope you all enjoy!

Sky Fleet Sabotage
6PS-B20-RJG

3D World's Super Mario has the best duck game.

He has the most control over a duck jump, you can walk while ducked, and you can roll.

I took advantage of this in my Red Coins in the Rodent Caves level. Sometimes I worry that people won't realized Super Mario has greater duck controls in the 3D World mode.

@carlosrox

I haven't tried your Rodent Caves stage (yet!) but one trick I see some makers do is having a short tutorial-type section at the beginning of the stage, sometimes by spelling out letters with coins (L + -> or whatever) to remind players of their abilities before the main part of the stage gets rolling.