Do you still lose all your rings upon taking damage? It's not my favorite mechanic...

@TriforceBun

You do, but other than getting them for 1ups (right?), is there any use for them?

Anyway this is actually my first Sonic game that I've bought and played so with the hype surrounding it and that it's actually a quality game, I decided to cave in and get it for Switch. It's fun so far! If a bit disorienting at times. The levels just send you flying all over the place that I often wonder if I'm even going in the right direction. That coupled with a time limit that apparently kills you without warning has made for some tense situations. But overall, I'm really enjoying it. That sense of speed you get, even if leaving me confused, is still a great feeling when you just plow through enemies and the environment. I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff but replaying through levels and beating the challenges should be fun.

The Chemical Plant Zone boss fight was brilliant.

@TriforceBun

Yes, but in some cases, they group...so you'll get, say, 16 rings with one collected.

@VofEscaflowne
There's a time limit? I play slow and never noticed a time limit.

@TriforceBun
The more you have the easier it is to gain some back though.

I was never the hugest Sonic fan, but I've definitely played my fair share over the years. I didn't really "get it" either, but I think now I finally do.

The music is great, the art is gorgeous, and the platforming is varied, different, and fun. It's rewarding to find secrets and different items.

@Hero_Of_Hyrule Sonic games actually go on sale pretty frequently, at least on PC. It may take a while, but it'll get to 25% off maybe as soon as the holidays, then 50% off at some point next year, then 75% off after that. But if you didn't like the Genesis games, Sonic Mania probably won't float your boat. It plays exactly like those games. The game is a labor of love in a way that few revivals are, but I imagine that zeitgeist appeal amounts to nothing if Sonic's not your cup of tea.

@TriforceBun You lose all your rings unless you have a shield. There's another item called the Combine Ring (from Knuckles Chaotix, wow) that groups your rings together into giant rings when you lose them, so retrieving most or even all of them is much easier.

@VofEscaflowne Rings are also the way to get into the Blue Spheres bonus stages: I think you need 30 of them when you pass a checkpoint to activate the warp. They also let you activate / prolong Super Sonic once you get all the Emeralds (I assume, anyway).

I too have never seen the rings mechanic as a bad thing, at least in 2D Sonic. I liken them to giving Small Mario an extra hit point that, in most cases, can be easily retrieved when lost. Having a stockpile of them is nice, sure, but not actually all that rewarding. So losing them isn't a huge deal, in most cases.


@carlosrox Yeah, if the timer hits ten minutes, you lose a life and go back to your last checkpoint (with the timer reset to zero). That's one tradition I wish they would have done away with: in a game where exploration and backtracking are so tantalizing, taking your time shouldn't be punished.

But if you're into Sonic Mania, you should check out the classics sometime! They might not have all the glitz and glamour of Mania, but there's a good reason why Mania is cut from their cloth.

@nate38

Oh, I didn't know that about the checkpoint/rings. Nor would I have any reason to I guess I'll be more careful about it when going for those challenges!

I'm like positive I've gone over 10 mins without dying! Whaaaaaaaat? Like I'm sure my first level was like 15 mins. I swearrrrrrrrrr.

Hmm. Will test.

I imagine Carlos starting up a level and then sitting patiently in front of the TV for ten minutes while Sonic taps his foot.

Actually, I wonder if something happens if you sit idle long enough? Sonic CD and Knuckles Chaotix both had, erm, Easter Eggs if you just sat idle too long.


To gush a little more about the game, I love how the Zones from past games aren't limited to their own gimmicks, and often borrow from other legacy Zones with similar themes: Flying Battery Act 2 is just as much a Wing Fortress tribute, and it even has a short segment with Wacky Workbench's infamous background coils in it (thankfully without the bounce floor that makes it such a hassle).

We made it to the second Sonic 2 returning Zone --- Oil Ocean --- before quitting time yesterday. I hear there's only a few zones left after that, so we'll probably gonna finish the game next time we get together this weekend.

Oh, and the brand new Zones are at least as good as the old ones. I hear there's only four of them, and I've played three, so yeah...I wish this game were twice as long!

@Hero_Of_Hyrule Where did Sonic 3 crash for you? Do you remember what was happening when it crashed? I don't remember if the game's ever crashed on me, now that I think about it...

I bought a Sonic game what am I doing with my life?

It's really great.

Hope they work out the kinks though. Can't really hit the home button reliably.

@Hero_Of_Hyrule
Interesting, I can't remember the game ever crashing but it wouldn't surprise me in that spot. So much speed through an area with a lot of activity just off-screen. Anyway, glad to hear you were enjoying it until that.

Zero said:

I bought a Sonic game what am I doing with my life?

Joining the winning team:

I've had a crash and an unresponsive Home button already. It ran completely fine the first night though.

Just played through the first three full zones. I really like how the 2nd half of the old zones has remixed music and all-new design and mechanics. Chemical Plant Zone 2 was a real highlight. And the new stage I just played--the TV station one--was nuts and highly creative. Probably one of the best Sonic Zones ever!

I still find that it has some frustrating moments peppered about though; enemies that aren't visually telegraphed as well as they could be and the like. Less "what even hit me!?" things but still more than there should be. Oh well. I appreciate the sheer craziness and flow in the stages, at least.

What differentiates the types of medals in the Blue Sphere stages? Time taken?

@TriforceBun Took me a while to figure that out too, but you get a Silver medal for completion and a Gold medal for getting all the rings (there's a ring countdown in the top right corner). If you run around the perimeter of a group of blue spheres, they'll turn into rings.

So my history with 2D Sonic is basically dicking around with the old games a bit but not getting super into them, and kind of getting into Sonic Rush but considering it maybe a low 8, which is to say a good game but nothing that blew me away. (History with 3D Sonic is mostly Adventure Battle 2, which I finished but really only enjoyed the Sonic parts, which were ok but not amazing...)

I played the first two acts of Mania and here are my impressions...

I still am not sure the flow of Sonic games works for me. There are a lot of paths, which is cool, but it's often confusing to me how I'd ever know why I'd choose one path over another, or when backtracking is required versus when I'm just going backwards, and half the time everything happens so fast it gets chosen for me anyway. And just generally speaking, am I supposed to be going fast? Slow? Back and forth? It sometimes seems tough to know when the game wants momentum or not until it is too late.

I'm not sure the game does a good enough job of telegraphing which enemies I can hop on and which I can't either. In the first stage there was something with a smooth top, I jumped on it, and got hit. Then later there was a crab with pointy claws, I jumped on it, and killed it? WHAT IS THE LOGIC HERE?! The bosses have been a bit confusing as well.

I really do not like underwater parts in Sonic. Weird movement, running out of air, blah. It's part of why I stopped playing Sonic 3 / Knuckles so quickly, got stuck on an underwater part early on and just said fuck it.

With that said, despite my issues, the game has been pretty fun so far. Well, Act 1 was just ok, but Act 2 seemed like a step up with some pretty creative parts (especially 2-2) and I heard it gets even better moving forward.

That boss of 2-2... ha ha. Sweet. It was way too easy because I played hours and hours of Kirby's Avalanche so I just quickly built a huge combo and pounded him. But it was still a nice touch.

@Zero

I sort of feel the same way with how fast everything moves but then I just went with the flow and just simply enjoyed the crazy speeds at which I'm going without worrying about branching paths. The levels get much better and creative too. Feels like every new level keeps things fresh.

@Zero
A lot of people have that same issue that you have with the Sonic's gameplay direction being a bit off. I think it's essentially because speed and exploration are two concepts that are pretty much at odds with each other. And I know what you mean about not knowing which path to take--for instance, I'll come up to a fork and just have to pick "up" or "down" and go with it. As a completionist (I always go for the roads that lead to treasure first in RPG dungeons) it kind of drives me crazy not knowing where "that other path" went. But I'm trying to not dwell on that too much.

All that said, so far I feel that Sonic Mania does a better job at ironing out those annoyances than many of the games (even the older ones). But I had the same problem with the visual element of the enemies--for instance, those armored worms in Chemical Plant 2. They have kind of vaguely lumpy armor on 3 of their segments and the rest are bare blue spheres. It's unclear what's actually vulnerable on this critter, especially since its armor could be construed as spiky (it's sort of bumpy). As I found out the hard way, jumping on the armor part kills the creature while hitting its smooth, blue spheres deals damage to Sonic (goodbye, rings!).

I do theorize that the "flat" enemy you landed on may have been landed on when Sonic wasn't in his spin "form." When you hit certain stage elements (like the springboards), Sonic won't actually be spinning in midair, and you can't land on any enemy feet-first or else you'll take damage. The series has some kind of weird rules like that.

The next zone you'll play was one of my favorites. It's the first all-new zone in the game and they really ramped up the creativity.

TriforceBun said:

@Zero
A lot of people have that same issue that you have with the Sonic's gameplay direction being a bit off. I think it's essentially because speed and exploration are two concepts that are pretty much at odds with each other. And I know what you mean about not knowing which path to take--for instance, I'll come up to a fork and just have to pick "up" or "down" and go with it. As a completionist (I always go for the roads that lead to treasure first in RPG dungeons) it kind of drives me crazy not knowing where "that other path" went. But I'm trying to not dwell on that too much.

That's what subsequent playthroughs are for! But also, you can almost always backtrack and try the other path in Genesis Sonic games (which is one of the things post-Genesis Sonic mostly abandoned, both in 2D and 3D). Plus there's usually lots of organic interplay between the paths: take the top path and miss a jump, now you're on the bottom path...or take the bottom path and hit a half-pipe with lots of speed, get flung up to the top path. You can change lanes pretty frequently in these games.


TriforceBun said:

All that said, so far I feel that Sonic Mania does a better job at ironing out those annoyances than many of the games (even the older ones). But I had the same problem with the visual element of the enemies--for instance, those armored worms in Chemical Plant 2. They have kind of vaguely lumpy armor on 3 of their segments and the rest are bare blue spheres. It's unclear what's actually vulnerable on this critter, especially since its armor could be construed as spiky (it's sort of bumpy). As I found out the hard way, jumping on the armor part kills the creature while hitting its smooth, blue spheres deals damage to Sonic (goodbye, rings!).

Yeah those guys aren't the best design. Their heads are vulnerable, their bodies will hurt you. Their bodies do emit a painful-looking gas as they float around, but only in intervals, so you think "maybe I can hit them when they're not gassing?" and you would be wrong.

I think I've come to the conclusion that I really have no idea what makes a Sonic game "good" and what makes a Sonic game "bad." At least when it comes to the 2D games.

Like, this Sonic Mania game is fine, but I'm not really seeing how it's anymore or less good than the Genesis games. Or the Sonic Advance games. Or the Sonic Rush games. Heck, I even fired up Sonic Generations yesterday on my 3DS, and I'll be honest. I was having about as much "fun" playing that as I have been with Mania.

Which...is to say, yes. The games are enjoyable. But a lot of the same complaints others have voiced still mark this franchise as a "lesser" series in my eyes. Too much disorienting gameplay, lack of direction, out-of-nowhere damage taken and far too much reliance on "trial-and-error" when it comes to progression. And especially more so for exploration.

How this series became some kind of rival for Super Mario is beyond me. The two series are nowhere near the same level of quality or polish.

That said? It's still enjoyable. There's something to be said for the full-out zaniness of not just the "does in no way make any kind of logical sense" level design, that bonkers set-up for the story/presentation (a staple for videogames of the '80s and '90s!) and honestly, even the music. I mostly remember the music of Sonic from the first game, and I remember it being...okay? But not great. Green Hill Zone is memorable, but not necessarily in a good way (to me). Marble Zone was just boring to listen to. I can't even remember the rest. Casino Zone, maybe? Blah.

But these new remixes (and maybe new tracks altogether?) in Mania are actually pretty good. I dig the theme for the Chemical Plant Zone. It's groovy, dood!

So yeah, so far the game lands squarely in the "okay" realm for me. Good? Eh...sure. I guess. Great? No way. But still worth playing and for the $20 price for download? Go for it, if you're feeling nostalgic. I still feel Mega Man 9 did the best retro-revival of a classic series brought to the modern market (maybe tied with Pac-Man Championship Edition). Even better than Nintendo did with the Super Mario series, in fact. For me, Sonic Mania falls below the NEW Super Mario Bros. games, but definitely above that Bionic Commando reboot. And maybe even above the Crash N-Sane Trilogy...that collection is just the PSOne games, right? But with much better graphics? At least Sonic Mania does something NEW.

I'll put some more time into it...but I'm going to put it on hold for now so I can focus on Backlaugust. And maybe by the time I return to it, patches for the bugs/glitches in the game will have been addressed. (for the record, I haven't run into them myself) Cheers!