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Rate your current level of gaming fandom, on a scale of 1 to 10! [poll] [roundtable]
10 (3/38 votes)
9 (12/38 votes)
8 (5/38 votes)
7 (7/38 votes)
6 (4/38 votes)
5 (3/38 votes)
4 (2/38 votes)
3 (2/38 votes)
2 (0/38 votes)
1 (0/38 votes)
Relative to what, you ask? Good question! Rate your CURRENT level of gaming fandom, compared to your lifetime MAXIMUM level of gaming fandom. So, if you're enjoying games more than you ever have, you would say 10. On the other hand, if you used to loooove games, but barely play them anymore... maybe a 1 or 2?

And after you vote, post about why. Is it a reflection of the current gaming scene? Or just a shift in the role that gaming plays in your life?

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Posted: 10/19/13, 04:02:14
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@New Forms I don't take a pass on them, I play tons of indie games... well, on my Nintendo / Sony platforms, for now, so my indie game possibilities are a bit more limited than PC gamers, but I still have plenty to play. And certain games like Braid, World of Goo, BIT.TRIP RUNNER, Cave Story, Guacamelee!, Little Inferno, VVVVVV, Shantae: Risky's Revenge, Journey and Pushmo (not technically indie, but indie in spirit) are some of my favorite games in recent years. But still, bigger budget games scratch a different itch, and I feel like we're not getting enough variety there. It's like... short stories are nice, but sometimes you want a big, thick novel to get into. And I'm not happy with the state of the novels right now. Metaphorically speaking.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:00:43  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 19:02:07

It just depends when I'm doing the talking, you know? Like, I enjoyed EarthBound this time around, but I enjoyed talking about the experience more in the Epic Center (and I rated EarthBound a 10). Now, when it comes to Super Mario 3D World, I'll likely enjoy playing more than talking...hopefully this post made sense.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:05:24

How do you think something like Lemmings compares to a modern day indie game? I think about this example quite often and I honestly can't decide if it is about the same level of production, size, variety, etc.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:10:56

Yep. But also talking about SM3DW is fun, especially when we see new screens or videos and the like.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:11:58
@Jargon Probably about similar, I guess? Although Lemmings did have 125 stages. Hmm.

The thing is, I enjoyed the way the scope of games got bigger over the years. Well... as long as the games in question are full of quality content and not just filler junk. On the 2D side indie games have done an ok job of keeping up, although I think they often limit what they can do based on their own weaknesses... for instance, few indie developers seem capable of super tight controls so few ever try to pull off a game to rival Mario. And scopewise, when you play something like Donkey Kong Country Returns it is tough to imagine an indie team ever pulling anything like that off on their own, it just feels grander than any indie platformer has felt. Some of that is just the production, but hey, production helps.

It's mostly on the 3D side though that I think indie games just aren't generally competing with the bigger budget games. You're just not going to see an indie game that rivals a new 3D Mario, Zelda, for non-Nintendo gamers I dunno... Elder Scrolls, Grand Theft Auto, Uncharted, whatever. I don't even think you will see many indie games rivaling the middle-budget 3D games like Persona 4, No More Heroes, Valkyria Chronicles, Sin & Punishment, whatever. I may eat my words someday, but I feel pretty safe saying that for now. There is a real reason why so many indies stick to 2D or limited scope 3D.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:19:30  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 20:03:22

Yeah, I was gonna ask too. Indie games tend to have about the same scope (and often a larger one) as most SNES games. So for someone who loved those back in the day when they were the standard for AAA productions, you'd think that person would enjoy indie games. Of course, I also understand wanting a more charming experience that gets the same budget as Assassin's Creed.


Haha, I tend think of Mario games as these poor, awesome things that you have the time of your life with while you're playing them but then don't think about at all afterwards. Maybe that's just me.
Posted: 10/21/13, 19:24:41
@Secret_Tunnel No you're right, comparing indie games to the SNES is probably somewhat accurate, although even then I wouldn't say that I've played a single indie game that rivals the best... Chrono Trigger, Yoshi's Island, Mega Man X, etc. on every level.

But that's the thing, indie games really only stand up to games from bigger developers in 2D (and even this I think is partially due to the fact that so many bigger developers all but abandoned 2D.) There are some neat 3D indie games, but it's tough for me to put them at the same level as the best 3D games. Mind you, I haven't played too many 3D indie games, so I could be missing some stuff.

Still though, it seems the scope is often severely limited. Journey, for instance, is a pretty neat game for what it is, but it has a very, very limited scope. And I'm not sure if that technically counts as indie since Sony pumped a ton of money into it.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:09:46  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 20:10:14

So I take it the PS2 era is what you long for in term of 3D variety? That's hard for me to relate to because I really wasn't very interested in that library, although I did play a lot of the noteworthy games.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:15:16
@Jargon I guess, although I'd call it the PS2 / GC / Xbox era, albeit I didn't play too many Xbox exclusives. PS2 alone would never have sufficed for me, but combined with Gamecube it was a pretty sweet combo.

I certainly found it more compelling than this last generation's retail output. ALTHOUGH... I think I got a lot more from my Wii than I did from the Gamecube. Sort of. Although the Gamecube still has a few of my absolute all-time favorites.

So it is more the Sony side that feels like a step backwards to me.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:20:58  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 20:21:34

Right. I guess some people argue that Gamecube had a more diverse lineup than Wii, but I definitely don't see it.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:24:19
I think it's just more combined like... PS2 / GC combined was more interesting to me than PS3 / Wii combined. A bit. Also, I feel like the best 3rd party stuff on the Wii were risks developers took trying to capture the Wii market and most of them failed HARD, so I doubt we will see those kind of risks again moving forward. Looking at the Wii U lineup and the known lineups for the PS4 and Xbox One... it just kind of paints a dire picture for me. So right now, I'm not feeling so hot on games, but a lot of that is more my lack of optimism for the future.

I'm talking big retail games. The indie boom has been pretty sweet and continues to be. But I feel like there just isn't going to be much moving forward that excites me and has that bigger scale that indie developers can't quite hit.

I wonder how much it actually matters to me though. I don't have as much time for games nowadays anyway, so maybe a waning excitement will help me feel more ok with the fact that I don't have much time for games nowadays anyway. I mean, it's not like I don't have stuff to play, I have tons of stuff to play. Finding time is the hard part. And in that sense the 4 or 5 hours long a lot of indie games are is actually a benefit, in a way. Less commitment...
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:29:51  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 20:31:55
Zero said:
I mean, it's not like I don't have stuff to play, I have tons of stuff to play. Finding time is the hard part. And in that sense the 4 or 5 hours long a lot of indie games are is actually a benefit, in a way. Less commitment...

Posted: 10/21/13, 20:34:30
Still. I think the big, meaty titles are my favorites... when they really nail it. I've never played an indie game that made me feel the way Super Mario 64, Metroid Prime, or Resident Evil 4 did.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:42:31

Yea, but I think Nintendo still takes care of me for those for the most part (plus a few third parties here and there). So my gaming looks like Pikmin 3 or Super Mario 3D World as the main event, with quick and satisfying indie games on the side. It's a pretty solid setup. But obviously the more good options for main courses, the better.
Posted: 10/21/13, 20:54:58
Nintendo is definitely my go to for the big stuff. They're kind of predictable though. I wish they would take some big risks on big titles more often, just come out of nowhere with something I wasn't expecting from them. I guess Xenoblade fits that bill, but I feel like that only existed because they bought a new dev house... it would never have happened internally with the dev houses they already have. Hell even more stuff like Kid Icarus Uprising would be great... sure it used an established IP, but it is an IP that has been gone for so long and that came back in such a vastly different form that it was essentially a brand new thing for me. Even if it did borrow heavily from Sin & Punishment and the likes.
Posted: 10/21/13, 21:05:48

I wonder how much accessibility plays into the equation. The types of mid-tier diversity you're looking for can be found pretty readily in the PC space, but I also understand that gaming on that platform is more niche in general because it requires a higher fiscal and mental skillset investment than plug & play handhelds and home consoles. Beyond that point though, I'm confident that you'd be surprised with the quantity and quality of diverse genres represented from genres you might find lacking on other platforms. I'm not talking SNES indies. I'm talking fully realized 3D titles that range from Xbox to 360 production values and beyond.

I won't bother with lists or anything, but just browsing over my personal Steam collection revealed quite a bit of this type of content. So considering accessibility, or lack thereof in this case, does the responsibility fall on the gamer to seek this stuff out and make the time/money investment to be part of that community? More often I just see people postulate that the industry is running itself into the ground with tired tropes & genres they're fatigued with. I certainly understand the fatigue part. When all you see are CoD & GTA adverts on TV it can sure look that way. I'd only suggest that this content doesn't represent the whole picture of what's available to the consumer and more than Kelly Clarkson's mass popularity & success represents the whole of what can be discovered and enjoyed in the music landscape.

So do we dig in our heals and bemoan an industry who has left our tastes behind or do we seek out that which is already there right in front of us even if it comes at the cost of trying something new or adjusting our expectations a bit (i.e. my bit about the simulation genre noted far above)?
Posted: 10/21/13, 21:29:17
Would the types of mid-tier diversity I'm looking for really be represented? Because one thing I'd like to see more of, for instance, is more quality 3D platformers, and that doesn't seem like something PCs get exclusive very often. Another thing I'd like to see more of is more arcade-based 3D flight shooters like Ace Combat, Starfox, Sin & Punishment, etc. and although PC seems to get a lot of flight shooters, they seem to be more sim-based to me. And another thing that seems to have all but disappeared is the mid-tier quirky Japanese hard-to-pigeon-hole-into-a-genre game. I'd also like to see more 2D games with the scope of something like New Super Mario Bros. or Donkey Kong Country Returns, and I just don't see that much of anywhere.

I could be mistaken on what exists on PC, but when I look at Gamerankings and such over the last few years, I don't really see much of anything that looks like what I'm looking for. I'm basically looking for the kind of thing that used to exist more on consoles and does not anymore, and I don't think PCs have really stepped up and taken over that type of game outside of smaller-scoped 2D stuff, for the most part.
Posted: 10/21/13, 21:43:04  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 21:43:51
New Forms said:

I wonder how much accessibility plays into the equation. The types of mid-tier diversity you're looking for can be found pretty readily in the PC space, but I also understand that gaming on that platform is more niche in general because it requires a higher fiscal and mental skillset investment than plug & play handhelds and home consoles.

Christ, and I thought I was a PC elitist...
Posted: 10/21/13, 22:04:11

Here's a good place to get just a quick glance.

NeoGaf Indie Games [September]

Give the page a minute to load before scrolling as it's got dozens upon dozens of .gifs & .jpgs to load. Also, scroll down past the OP as the real list starts after that.

This is a list for a single month's worth of PC indie titles. Every month features a new thread with new titles. A quick glance shows 2D/3D, Western & Eastern influences (though admittedly leaning Western).

That's just ONE month in PC land. It may not have all the answers you’re looking for, but it’s a Far Cry (lol) from the doomsayers’ suggesting the industry is heading for a one-dimensional AAA bro-fisted crash (sponsored by Doritos & Mountain Dew).
Posted: 10/21/13, 22:11:46
I'm really not seeing it. You're saying that stuff is at the scope and quality level of the better middle-tier-budget console games in past years?

Where are the Persona / Maximo / Ace Combat / etc. equivalents?

BTW I never said anything about bro pumping games. I just see gaps that didn't used to exist and don't really see anything filling them. It may have a lot to do with a lot of the good middle-tier Japanese developers either trying to imitate Western developers, running to handhelds, or dying off completely... but the gaps seem there to me nonetheless. And I'm not convinced that indies have truly stepped up to fill those gaps.
Posted: 10/21/13, 22:25:02  - Edited by 
 on: 10/21/13, 22:28:01
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