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Will Pointer/Wii U controls make 'AAA' FPS games any more appealing to you? [roundtable]
 
I know we have a lot of current FPS haterz around here (I might even include myself in that category), so I have a question for these folks: Supposing that the Wii U actually GETS the big FPS games that are coming to the other consoles, will Pointer/Gamepad controls make you any more likely to give them a shot?

Watching a Borderlands 2 preview (on X-Play) started me on this train of thought. What I played of the first game was decent, but I think that I would honestly have much more fun if I could actually aim and shoot my zillion weapons with the Wiimote. AND if I could seamlessly take care of all of the inventory/map/quest/customization shit on a nearby Gamepad-on-a-stand. We already know that Gearbox is open to Nintendo consoles. Hell, on that episode, Randy Pitchford pretty much did a PERFECT run on World 1-1 of Super Mario Bros. This seems like a natural fit to me, and a real enhancement, honestly. Of course, dual analog could be an option.

I mean, FPS games never really got much of a shot on Wii. The system had some decent ones, but none of the exclusives were unqualified successes, and the ports were never at parity with their big brothers. This could be the pointer-based FPS genre's real chance to make a case for itself. As far as I'm concerned, it already has, because, although I didn't LOVE any of the Wii FPS games, I DID think that the controls in many were near-perfect. With customization. And I genuinely believe that, with enough robust customization options (for example, I often set the vertical speed to almost zero, disabled scrolling, expanded the bounding box to the whole screen, reduced it to nothing, etc.), almost anyone could find a fun, intuitive control scheme which would be perfectly tailored to their playstyle. Even Stephen.

Back to the topic, RE6 could definitely hit the system, eventually. Would you wait for a well-done Wii U version? I personally never even considered getting the 360 version of RE5, partially because I thought the demo was abysmal and partially because of the existence of the Move-enabled PS3 version.

And then there's the biggest elephant in the room: Black Ops II. EVEN THOUGH the single-player demo of Modern Warfare 3 that I just played on 360 was utter horseshit, I still have some interest in this game. For all of the talk about the Vita version, Treyarch might have just given Wii U something of a killer app. A huge, free online game at launch with full Wii controller support and tons of modes, including a sweet co-op mode where each player has his own individual display of the action. Plus, Treyarch is saying the right things about the changes that they've made to the formula. AND they already have tons of Wii development experience. I'm actually... kind of considering it? That might just indict me as a fanboy, once and for all, but I really think it could turn out to be something special. Possibly even the best version of the game. Maybe even the preferred one? (Seriously, for how long are people going to be happy to pay for online play?)

But what would REALLY get me on board is a Nintendo-published/funded/resurrected TimeSplitters 4 from the remnants of Free Radical. My wishes for Nintendo to get Monster Hunter and support from Platinum have already come true. Just one more recommendation to go...

Seriously, I think that would be a brilliant move. It would be the most unique, robust, and well-suited-to-the-platform FPS game that they could pick. And if Bayonetta 2 caused such a ruckus, can you IMAGINE the tsunami of fanboy tears that the announcement would cause?

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Posted: 09/24/12, 03:52:26  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 14:19:26
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Yes, they do. I don't mind dual analog, but the Wiimote pointer just feels great. I'd love to see a twitch shooter running at 60 frames using the Wiimote with no ironsights-aiming. So tired of staring down the sights. Picking off enemies in Red Steel 2 felt amazing because you could whip the cursor around the screen so fast. Having to aim down the sights in Goldeneye was comparatively clunky.

I prefer my Wiimote shooters with big bounding boxes but very fast scrolling. Ideally, I'd like to see a game that handles turning with nunchuk tilting. Why not? Too much to handle all on the left hand, maybe? I feel like some developer would have thought of this and tried it already...
Posted: 09/24/12, 04:15:22  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 04:16:44
Easy. Dual Analog is okay. I'm fine with it. But I prefer Metroid Prime 3 controls over Bioshock easy. For example.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:24:57
Yes.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:36:36
I love IR aiming... love it a hell of a lot more than gyro or accelerometer stuff. I hope we see a lot of it on Wii U.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:39:52
Absolutely not, I wish IR controls would die in a fire. (except for light-gun games, IR aiming works great when it's not tethered to movement as well)

I'm hoping to use the dual analog of the WUG and then the touch screen for extra features.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:42:49
I think there's plenty of room for improvement from Wii FPS controls, but I also think that pointer and motion controls can allow for that improvement. That's better than thinking that dual analog or even keyboard and mouse are "good enough" and sticking with them ad infinitum, which seems to be the plan outside of Wii U (although hopefully Kinect 2 will deliver there too)

@deathly_hallows

Fascist.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:43:35  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 05:44:18
@Jargon
Well that's my personal opinion, I'm just answering the question in the OP, I'm not stopping you from using your janky IR controls, knock yourself out!

I'll be playing with the WUG.

In all seriousness, I realize I'm in the minority and that practically every single other person on this board loves IR to death, that's great for you guys but I won't be using it unless forced to.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:50:50  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 05:53:11
deathly_hallows said:
I wish IR controls would die in a fire.
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:52:13
@Jargon
Uh, that was a joke, thought that would be kind of obvious since "IR controls" aren't alive and can't die, in a fire or otherwise. Seriously, lighten up. Take comfort in the fact that you're on the side of the winning opinion and let me be all alone in hating on the house that Red Steel built. No need to derail the thread, I'll exit so you guys can lovefest!
Posted: 09/24/12, 05:55:33  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 05:56:25
@deathly_hallows

Yea look at the lovefest in my last post.

IR controls aren't literally alive but they can certainly die. I know you speak English well enough to understand that.
Posted: 09/24/12, 06:00:00
@Jargon
Well Black Ops 2 is the only major FPS on the system right now and it supports Wiimote/Nunchuck controls, so hopefully other developers will follow Treyarch's lead. Personally, I'm all in favor of IR being optional as long as the WUG is supported as well, which I'm sure will be the case since Nintendo is probably pushing WUG as the default controller.
Posted: 09/24/12, 06:12:43
@deathly_hallows
It'll be interesting to see what happens if all of the control configurations start playing in the same online field. How have the results of that kind of inclusive competitive multiplayer been on PS3?

@nate38
Why not? Another option.

But yeah, I also love the super-accurate Quick Draw McGraw-style pointer gunplay. Even in launch games like Twilight Princess, it felt absolutely awesome to shoot the eye of a needle from 100 feet away with the bow. I think the RE4 scheme worked fantastically on Wii.

Like I said, I like both extremes for different reasons. Humongous bounding box for quick, precise targeting/No bounding box for that mouselook feel. But I hate that in-between thing, where you start pivoting wildly outside of some arbitrary line. That always felt sloppy to me, and I'm not a fan of 'dragging' the view.
Posted: 09/24/12, 07:23:00  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 07:25:47
Anand said:
And I genuinely believe that, with enough robust customization options (for example, I often set the vertical speed to almost zero, disabled scrolling, expanded the bounding box to the whole screen, reduced it to nothing, etc.), almost anyone could find a very fun control scheme, which was perfectly tailored to their playstyle. Even Stephen.

I wish I could believe that.

Unfortunately at the very least its going to take him multiple ass kickings (at the hands of me and my Wiimote) before he accepts the truth .
Posted: 09/24/12, 07:29:47
Yeah, I'm totally into the idea. I'm certainly a fan of traditional FPS games, but I feel the genre's run its course by this point. It's dominated the market a lot longer than I expected it to. But I don't need another, prettier Halo at this point. Instead, the dream of a perfect IR controlled FPS is beautiful to me. If it ever happens, I'll be there.

And I'm tired of this dual analog conservatism. You gotta let people try new things.
Posted: 09/24/12, 07:30:57
They'd have to be shooters that interest me. Would I go out and buy CoD or Borderlands because of them? No. But Bioshock, Left 4 Dead, or a new decent Jedi Knight game? Absolutely.
Posted: 09/24/12, 07:48:30
No because fundamentally the problem is lack of inputs. The Wiimote is short on buttons compared to DA so inevitably things start getting mapped to motion controls which is inconvenient because it means that you have to interfere with your aiming to perform the action tied to the motion.

The thought process needs to move away from how can we port existing control schemes to this and instead focus on designing games around the limited inputs. The best game I played with IR controls was RE4 Wii edition. It got a lot of slack considering the rigidity of the original dual analog controls. Letting you aim anywhere on the screen without shifting the camera angle but snap to that point with Leon made the game flow very well in a way the other versions didn't achieve.

Unfortunately I think this window of opportunity has closed and all the controller will see is options in current games so it will always fall short. Aiming with it is fine but you do so much more in modern FPS games.
Posted: 09/24/12, 10:10:46
Control-wise it would be nice, but it really depends on the FPS. If it's a linear, heavily-scripted FPS, then no control set-up is going to make me enjoy it more.
Posted: 09/24/12, 11:03:00
It depends on the game, but in a general sense I'd say yes, I think it will. I'd be more interested in giving something like Halo a chance if it used IR controls. If it's something like Call of Duty, IR isn't going to make a difference.

(And yes, I realize Halo isn't coming to Wii U, it was just the first example to come to mind.)

Of course, I'm interested in checking out Halo 4 anyway, and some FPSes already interest me like BioShock, so maybe IR controls won't make a difference.
Posted: 09/24/12, 15:42:13  - Edited by 
 on: 09/24/12, 15:43:14
I'm generally not an FPS guy, but I will play them every now and again. Dual analog works fine, but I prefer the accuracy of the pointer.
Posted: 09/24/12, 16:54:30
For the most part I prefer dual analog controls, except for rail shooter type games where aiming is the only thing I need to worry about.
Posted: 09/24/12, 17:17:52
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