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Regarding sequels and threequels on WiiU (Batman, ME3, Darksiders 2, AC3) [roundtable]
I wanted to talk specifically about the following games:

Batman Arkham City: Armored Edition
Assassin's Creed 3
Darksiders 2
Mass Effect 3

I will say flat out that I do think it's awesome that a Nintendo console is getting the above franchises. I'm sure that Batman will have the most appeal, because there has to be some Wii only owners that love Batman, but never got to play Arkham City. Despite its brutality, I'm sure it could even be a big hit for the younger crowd and families, simply because it's Batman.

I could personally see myself checking out Assassin's Creed 3 or Darksiders 2, pending controller usage. AC3 seems to be playing it simple, so it could be cool to experience that on the WiiU. That game looks cool enough that I'm considering checking out AC1 and 2 in preparation. I'm kind of stuck with ME3 on PC having already played the other games on there.

1.) Do you think that these games are coming to WiiU in a smart way? And I don't mean in terms of Gamepad usage (though I think Batman looks like a mess). It would take a lot of effort, but would it be smart for developers to maybe port earlier games in the franchise, and just push back the release of some of these games? Maybe Bioware could do a "Mass Effect Trilogy," or possibly release each game at a discounted price? Would it even be worth Bioware's time to do something like that? What about an Assassin's Creed Collection? An Arkham Aslyum "dynamic duo" pack? It's not uncommon for consoles to get rereleases like this, as we've seen things like Metal Gear Solid, Metroid Prime, God of War, and others get "collected rereleases." Would it be smarter for developers to get Nintendo gamers started off the right way, or is it not worth the time and money?

2.) Is anyone here looking forward to these games on the WiiU? I know Stache might be interested in Batman, seeing as he's strictly a Nintendo gamer. Is anyone else in that same boat? And if you ARE, do those titles appeal to you? Or are you turned off because you haven't played the other games in the series?

I know each of these titles is a different situation (seeing as both Batman and ME3 are older games, while AC3 and Darksiders will be on the newer side), but I'm curious about their appeal. I don't think NW will be a reflection of the market out there, but do you think these games have a chance to sell a good amount of copies? Or are they destined for failure? Will they get lost in the shuffle, or will they stand out because of brand awareness?

One thing is for sure, is that I think these titles stand the best chance at launch. Not just because they're older games, but because as time goes on, people will settle in to the choices they make for each console. With the Wii, I think it became pretty obvious as to which games started selling better. At launch, I think people will be more of the mindset of "I just got this console, and I want to get some games to play on it and show other people." Developers and publishers have the chance to right some wrongs made with the Wii - by showing gamers that a Nintendo console can be home to some 'epic' core gamer experiences.

Anywho, what are your guys' thoughts on them in general?

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Posted: 06/09/12, 09:02:51  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 09:08:06
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I guess I'm split.

In terms of games that will be new at the time like Assassin's Creed III and Darksiders 2, I understand why the earlier games aren't coming first.

For some of the others, I kind of agree that it makes the most sense to release a comp or something. But really, do the developers get much from that? It's just more work and they probably end up charging about the same.

On a semi-related note, it's my understanding that Microsoft owns publishing rights to Mass Effect 1, so that will never, ever see the light of day on the Wii U.

As for my personal interest... eh. I have a PS3 and never really bothered with Assassin's Creed and Darksiders (although I have some interest in both.) I own Mass Effect 2 and it's ok but honestly I'm not sure if I will ever finish it and if I do it will be awhile. And I love both of the Batman games but I already own them. Still, I'm glad to see these series finding a home on a Nintendo console and hopefully more follow.
Posted: 06/09/12, 09:36:01  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 09:38:39
I don't have much to say on this, but I think the same as you do on Batman. Its BATMAN, so people who haven't played it yet -- like myself -- will probably take a good hard look at it. Heck, Mrs_Mustache got excited at the thought of playing as Catwoman. She'd never say "Oh boy! I get to play as that Colonial Chick in Assassin's Creed!" Batman franchise has starpower.

But yes, its totally "new to me," something I love. Dig it!
Posted: 06/09/12, 10:58:52

I expected a bit more from you on this actually and as soon as the sizzle reel aired my thoughts turned to you. I guess if you have never been bothered by these games enough to buy other systems before then why would you want them now, on the other hand a whole host of options just made themselves available to you. Are there any 3rd party franchises in particular you would love to see headed to Wii U?
Posted: 06/09/12, 11:41:03
warerare said:
I guess if you have never been bothered by these games enough to buy other systems before then why would you want them now

I think this logic applies to some people... and doesn't to others. Personally I know there are a handful of Xbox/360 games I would play if they came to a platform I own, but I'm not going to run out and buy an Xbox/360 just to play them.
Posted: 06/09/12, 12:32:41
It IS a bit shameful and short-sighted. Then again, we never got an enhanced GTA Trilogy on Wii. Instead, we got Bully and Table Tennis. So, yeah...

The whole third-party situation so far seems pretty precarious, to be honest. Most of them aren't even pretending to give a shit, and the system hasn't even launched. That's bad. And this E3 probably won't convince them. So Nintendo will seemingly get off on the wrong third-party foot this generation, as well.

I mean, we don't even have a fucking Monkey Ball game!
Posted: 06/09/12, 15:12:47

Well, I was never a Resident Evil fan, but I did check out what-you-guys-call-ReMake on Gamecube (one of my friends then brought over his Playstation an the super-scary original Resident Evil. What is scarier? Is it the slow, plodding zombies that you can see coming from far away or the radioactively bright blue carpeting?), and I picked up Resident Evil 4, too.

Batman is Batman. I like that guy. I read a bunch of Batman comics. I have some other Batman games. I probably won't touch Mass Effect, or Ninja Gaiden 3; Assassin's Creed has the best bet out of the others, I think, simply because its LAUNCHING now. I probably won't get it though. Ever.

I liked the Final Fantasy series. I don't know how awesome II ("IV") and III ("VI") can totally tear it up on SNES, and then they're like "oh, right.. We're never releasing a true Final Fantasy on Nintendo again, Chocobums!" Gee, thanks guys. There are PLENTY of other franchises that I'd like on Nintendo, but not nearly enough for me to buy a console, even if there are a ton of titles ("that doesn't make any sense!"). I don't have the time, the money, or the willpower to do that. My willpower, however, to abstain from buying another console is unmatched!


Nintendo Power included Bully in their "The Should-Haves" section this month, among Punch-Out!!, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and others. I thought that weird.
Posted: 06/09/12, 15:45:07  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 15:45:56
Well, it was supposed to be decent. I'm just stunned that Rockstar didn't see an enhanced, motion-controlled GTA Trilogy as a much, much, much, much, much better bet.
Posted: 06/09/12, 15:51:38

I wouldn't worry about a Monkey Ball game, it will only take a few days to knock one of them up
Posted: 06/09/12, 15:55:20
What I worry will happen is if the Wii U gets too many "current generation" ports, people will start thinking that the Wii U isn't exactly new and that they're just playing catch up to the big boys. How would that convince a PS3 or 360 gamer to switch over then?
Posted: 06/09/12, 16:13:04

It's going to take original content from both Nintendo and 3rd parties.

I think they're off to a great start with Pikmin, LEGO City Underground, and ZombiU and P100..
Posted: 06/09/12, 16:23:05
@New Forms

Yeah I just hope that general word of mouth doesn't hurt Nintendo more. I mean how long did gamers claim that PS3 doesn't have any games?
Posted: 06/09/12, 16:28:09
I just hope that games like AC3 and Darksiders 2 perform well, because I'd like to see more of those kinds of titles on the platform. I don want the WiiU to fall into that same situation where developers are weary about releasing big titles WiiU. Granted, this will probably happen to an extent, but maybe there's a chance that it will be less so. Or a few years down the road, maybe some developers still aren't ready to move entirely to the next generation.

Back on N64 and GameCube, I used to be excited for multiplatform games because I liked the controller or the graphics would tend to be better. I do have that feeling a little with WiiU. I mean, if I'm going to have a WiiU, why NOT check out Assassin's Creed?
Posted: 06/09/12, 17:30:16  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 17:44:39
I'm tempted by Arkham City and Assassin's Creed 3. Not paying full price though.
Posted: 06/09/12, 17:35:54

Wait, are you implying that it does?!

I don't think we should get the earlier games in the series ported over as well, though Mass Effect 3 really makes no sense from a Nintendo gamer standpoint. Assassin's Creed III I'm sure you can get away with not having played the others, as well as Darksiders II and especially Batman. I don't think getting the first games out and delaying the already "old content" further would help really. You'd just have people not buying Mass Effect 1 in any large numbers, Mass Effect 2 selling even less, and then we probably wouldn't even get Mass Effect 3 when all was said and done.
Posted: 06/09/12, 18:49:52
Yeah, I think of these games, ME3 just seems like a cash grab. Maybe it can fill the void for people out there who were looking for some sort of a sci-fi game, but I really don't know how big that audience is.

Like missy said, I think the other games won't intimidate people that haven't played the games' predecessors. There might be a little bit of that with Darksiders 2, but the fact that it's also a newer game probably helps things a bit (where ME3 is hurt by being an older game).
Posted: 06/09/12, 18:56:17
For me, it comes down to a couple of things:

A) How is motion control going to play into it? From the look of things, not at all. That's disappointing to me, as a 360 owner, because that'd be one of the main appeals of seeing a AAA game like Batman on a Nintendo console.

B) How important is the Gamepad control to the overall experience of the game? Does it add real value to the package? Despite my 360, I've never played any of these games. So I'd face a conundrum if I bit on a Wii U and suddenly developed an interest in these titles. They don't look bad, but do they look like a big enough improvement on the originals that it's worth my enthusiasm, the extra wait and the significant extra cost? If we were seeing a flood of these enhanced ports, I might be excited right now. Maybe a few of them would be great, a la RE4:Wii. But of the series that have been announced, only Assassin's Creed 3 and Batman look all that interesting to me. Possibly Darksiders, but I haven't looked too deeply at that. So, at best, that's 3 games. And from what I've seen so far they don't look supremely enhanced by the Gamepad.

So, no, I'm not particularly excited about these sequels on Wii U. I'm still pessimistic about the whole enterprise. Nintendo hasn't demonstrated that third parties are particularly interested in developing for the Wii U. While it's true that we never got a single third party game of the caliber of Assassin's Creed on the Wii (you guys know that's true) I'm not convinced this means developers are taking the new console any more seriously than they took the old one.

Now, to answer your actual questions:

1) As a gamer, I'd prefer a compilation, particularly on Mass Effect. But I don't blame third parties for not putting the resources into that. For the rest, I don't think it's as big of a deal that we're starting on sequels. Lack of available prequels didn't hurt Final Fantasy VII on the PS1.

2) And I guess I answered this above. I don't feel particularly excited about these titles. Last year's sizzle reel made me think we'd have more third party announcements over time. Mass Effect 3 and AC3 are good pick ups, but I'd still say there just plain isn't enough third party support. Yet again.

At this point, I think we have to give up. If you're playing Nintendo consoles, you're playing Nintendo games, for the most part. We can point fingers around and around, but the point still stands. If you want access to the best third party software, you have to buy one of Nintendo's competitor's consoles. I don't see that changing with the Wii U. At least not from the information we currently have available.
Posted: 06/09/12, 19:17:14  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 19:18:57
1) Bioware is already going to do a trilogy. You can count on it. If that's the case I'd expect it to be on Wii U.

Secondly why would it be smart to port earlier games in the series? Gamers don't live in a vacuum. Pretty much any gamer who is into Mass Effect, Batman, etc owns another console or has a gaming PC. Porting a bunch of old games to the Wii U so the .001% of the gaming public who is interested in these games but has no way to play them can "catch up" is a ridiculous idea. Trilogies are a different beast all together however I think you are going to see those come anyhow, at which point the Wii U will get the inevitable port.

2) Personally I don't care in the least about buying any of these games on the Wii U unless the Wii U version is superior to the PC version, and even then probably not. Not one of those games is day 1 for me, they are all "wait and see" type games. Which means I'd eventually rather buy it half price on Steam than half price at Gamestop.
Posted: 06/09/12, 19:34:42
It's one of those things where I'd have to wait and see how the game(s) fare on Wii U compared to the others.

For example, with all of the games I'm expecting to play this Fall/Winter, I may not get games like Darksiders 2 and Assassin's Creed III on Day 1. So, they may already be out on Wii U by the time I get around to purchasing them. My impulse would be to get the better version between 360 and PS3, but I can also take into account how the Wii U version fares in comparison.

In this situation, I'd almost prefer if the developers did play it safe and simple with respect to the controller. If the Wii U is in fact a more capable system (which seems to be the case, though there's still nothing nailed down as being confirmed), I'd like to see devs try and get more out of the visuals, and use the controller in a logical manner, rather than feeling the need to shoehorn something gimmicky in. You know? If the game doesn't really have an "OMG WE HAVE TO DO THIS" application with the Game Pad, I'd rather they not try to force something. It's kinda like how Wii games where motion didn't really apply had waggle forced in for no real benefit.

For someone like me, who is leaning towards not getting the Wii U on Day 1 but is still interested in AC3 and DS2, I would need to see value in getting the Wii U versions instead. If the consensus is that the Wii U version(s) are the best, I'd have something to think about. When I look at the Wii U launch window, games like NSMB, Pikmin, ZombiU, Rayman...these are probably games that I would check out if I already owned the system, but they aren't something that would get me to go buy a new console right away (this is sort of like the 360 launch; I ended up getting Perfect Dark and Condemned later on, but they were not games I needed on day 1).

Since Assassin's Creed III, for instance, is definitely a game I am getting this Holiday for some system, it's a little different. Hypothetically, if it was a Wii U exclusive, I would get the Wii U at launch. So, there has to be a definite value there for me to say, "The Wii U version is definitely the best way to play it -- I am getting a Wii U at some point anyways -- If I get a Wii U, there are 4-5 other games that interest me in the launch window", it might twist my arm enough to not get it for a system I already own, and get the Wii U earlier than I planned. Same would probably go for Batman had I not bought it last year. It's a really good game. If I hadn't played it, and if the consensus is that the Wii U version is the best version, that would be another selling point.
Posted: 06/09/12, 19:42:30  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 19:43:26
Anand said:
I mean, we don't even have a fucking Monkey Ball game!

I never thought I'd say this but... good? Sega really needs to think long and hard about how to restore that series to greatness.
Posted: 06/09/12, 19:45:04
Do we really need or want third party ports, I heard it mentioned somewhere that it would be far more favourable for Nintendo to court smaller, independant studios such as Platinum Games and Treasure and get some exclusives from them by publishing their games. We are seeing that with Project P-100 but I would love to see more of it. I think its those sorts of games that the "hardcore"(hate that term) are going to buy a Wii U for. If Nintendo does this it seems like they are getting a ton of exclusive content rather than games which could appear on any platform.

I mean can you imaging Nintendo funding a load of Double Fine projects, I would sure as hell be all over that.
Posted: 06/09/12, 19:53:06  - Edited by 
 on: 06/09/12, 19:53:52
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