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You know what? The Wii has done one thing historic...
Editorial by 
Editor
July 31, 2009, 05:11:45
 
...it has to be THE MOST polarizing console I've ever seen, in all my generations of gaming.

Either people absolutely love it, or they absolutely hate it. And those that "love" the system and what it offers hit one extreme where they ingore everything else good or better about other systems... while those that don't, well... they believe it to be the bane of all gaming.

Never have I seen a system where there really are very few points in between. Not even between the SNES and the Genesis, the first "console war" that really hit closer to a "mainstream" status with all the advertisement and such.

Thoughts?

I dunno'. Maybe it's just me.

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Posted: 07/31/09, 05:11:45    
 
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Hmm, I don't ignore everything else good or better about other systems, but yeah you're right... it's a very polarizing console. It has a lot to offer, but that lot is so DIFFERENT than the other consoles. It's not like the olden days where you had a bunch of fanboys arguing about consoles that were all essentially the same idea.

But it has done another thing historic, brought on the advent of motion controls. Does anyone doubt that hundreds of years from now there will be some insane VR full body (I mean true 1:1 body, not NATAL) stuff going on? And whoever writes the history of video games will inevitably mention that Nintendo was the first to really make motion mainstream.


Posted by 
 on: 07/31/09, 05:43:31
I don't ignore it either, and now that I re-read that, I think in all honesty most Wii owners don't ignore other consoles. A fair number of the ones posting on various boards own the Wii plus something else or all 3.

It just... behooves me sometimes to see some of the absolute HATE the thing gets. I mean, I disliked the PS3 a LOT for its pricing when it first released (I'm pretty sure I ranted about it for a couple of months here), but I didn't have this outright hate for the damn thing. And, I've grown to like what it does have to offer.

But just going from board to board in various communities, the amount of Wii hatred is staggering.

However, amongst my actual friends, only like two of them hate Wii, and that's not surprising coming from them because they've hated Nintendo (like seriously hated, not an exaggeration) LONG before the Wii. All my other friends tend to love playing it, or at least enjoy some of the games I'll pop in.

But they're what would be called, how do you say, "hardcore gamers?" Way more so than me.

It will be interesting to look back at the Wii and see just where VR all started.


Posted by 
 on: 07/31/09, 11:17:21
Hmm.

To be fair the Wii got a lot of love at the start, but then 3rd party support was barely there, motion controls were underutilized, etc.

Still though, there ARE a lot of great games. Someone brought up an interesting point that should have been obvious that I hadn't thought about before though... most of the good Wii games are very Japanese, and in the past Japanese games were also big in the West, but now... outside Nintendo and some Western-focused stuff like MGS and FF (and handhelds,) most Japanese developers are struggling in the West. And a lot of the Western gamers who only get into Western games just start bashing instead of recognizing that not everyone wants to play FPS and realistic racers.

One Western genre I think the Wii has been doing great in though is sports games. I'm surprised more sports fans aren't big on it, though it seems in the mainstream it is getting bigger... Wii Tiger Woods is the best selling version, etc.


Posted by 
 on: 07/31/09, 18:19:33
I actually don't really love nor hate the Wii. I still feel it has lots of untapped potential especially with WM+, but I still haven't felt that there is one killer app that really makes me want to go run out and get one right now. I do think there are some well done games for Wii, but for me there just isn't that killer app.

I can wait to pick one up for $25 like I did with gamecube.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/09, 08:14:12
I think Galaxy is definitely a killer app, but it's not necessarily a killer Wii app. I mean, in the sense that it doesn't take full advantage of the Wii remote (though it does do a good job on the small details.)

It kind of does seem weird that to this day there isn't a single Wii game that just completely goes all out like Mario / Metroid / Zelda but fully uses the Wii remote as well. I think the next Zelda will be that game, though who knows.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/09, 08:36:34
if you´re waiting for the Wii to fall to $25 you might be waiting a long time.

and Galaxy isn´t a killer Wii app? Did Stephen08 hijack your account, andrew? :p


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/09, 16:31:24
Ha ha I just meant that it's not really a very Wii-specific game. Like Wii Sports, THAT is a Wii killer app.

I'm not saying Galaxy isn't a killer app in general, just that it doesn't particularly showcase the Wii's unique elements. Other than the fact that it is unique by being the only console with Nintendo-developed games.

I think Capcom HAS changed a bit, they're almost trying too hard for the "mature" Western audience (on consoles anyway.) I can't really imagine them truly pushing a big Mega Man game nowadays, Maximo (Ghosts and Goblins) probably won't see the light of day this generation, and Viewtiful Joe / Okami / etc. seemed like tests that Capcom considers failures and wants nothing to do with anymore. And the Capcom that actually put a lot of time and effort into a bunch of Disney properties seems long gone. I guess there is still Monster Hunter, but otherwise they almost seem to exclusively develop "mature" properties nowadays. The thing is, you're allowed to change towards more "mature" stuff and be accepted (on IGN anyhow.) The usual argument is "they grew up with their audience" or whatever but I don't know many 30+ year olds (you know, the ones that were there with Capcom from day 1) that are overly obsessed with "mature" games.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/09, 23:01:52
It sure is polarizing! But if Nintendo closes out the generation with a lot more bridge games and epic use of WM+, then all criticism of the console will be erased from the history books.

People will just look back and remember the birth of motion control and some great games, much like we look back at the birth of 3D graphics on the Nintendo 64 and don't think about the endless droughts and 3rd party drama.

Me, I like games from all over but I have far more respect for the work Nintendo is putting into gaming. They're opening up the industry to everyone AND they're advancing the medium and what it can rise to do. Two very different, equally important missions. The first , accessibility, is already accomplished - just look at those sales. The second is making real progress.

The people who look down on the Wii have an extremely self-centered view of gaming, and are ultimately irrelevant to its future. That includes the media who thinks it's their job to pander to those people.


Posted by 
 on: 08/02/09, 17:38:46
That includes the media who thinks it's their job to pander to those people.

Case in point: Matt's recent "Article" in regards to Wii vs. iPhone. I'm STILL trying to figure out just what the heck was that other than taunting the IGN users, in particular the Wii crowd whose members have probably been supporting them since the N64.com days.

But that's a topic for another thread.

Pretty much agree with everything else you stated as well.

The real question is you don't see such immature behaviour in literature or cinema. It looks a lot like mainstream sport supporters actually, or religious clan hate.

I do agree there (after a bit of thought).

I do think, also, that with a few exceptions, a lot of it is the same people from the previous gen who hated Ninty anyway, and have now added the "I actually liked the GCN but..." card to their repertoire.


Posted by 
 on: 08/03/09, 00:15:09
Yeah somehow the GCN is like this awesome classic Nintendo console now. I know people often view the past in rose-colored graphics but man, that thing was CONSTANTLY hated on back on the GCNGB. How is it so loved by the Wii haters now? I really, really can't imagine it is a completely different set of haters.


Posted by 
 on: 08/03/09, 06:45:55
"a lot of it is the same people from the previous gen who hated Ninty anyway, and have now added the "I actually liked the GCN but..." card to their repertoire. "


So. Freaking. True.

^__^


Posted by 
 on: 08/03/09, 12:30:39
Yeah somehow the GCN is like this awesome classic Nintendo console now. I know people often view the past in rose-colored graphics but man, that thing was CONSTANTLY hated on back on the GCNGB. How is it so loved by the Wii haters now? I really, really can't imagine it is a completely different set of haters.

There's been a few threads/posts (not just on IGN btw) where that has been the theme, and I'm just... flabbergasted by it. The GCN? LOVED? Better support than the Wii? Leaves me scratching my head every time when that comes up.

I remember battling tooth and nail with people about the GCN - probably more so than the SNES during that console war, lol. The hate on the GCN reached freaking EPIC proportions. I remember articles that would stretch for pages long detailing just where Ninty messed up with the GCN, the image problems, the whole "it's kiddie!" thing?

Yet now it's like the SNES part 2 to some folks.

Time distorts our vision of things, I guess.


Posted by 
 on: 08/04/09, 03:36:53
Hmm... you know, there is one other "side" to this whole thing: people that were GCN fanatics to the extreme last gen, who have now become fanatics on the whole other end of the spectrum. Basically - and I don't like to use this term but - fanboys who who would have been fanboys one way or the other.


Posted by 
 on: 08/04/09, 18:12:50
Well they do say love and hate are two sides of the same emotion. And when you think about it, where does some of the most bitterness and anger come from in society, and to whom? Divorcees, to their ex-spouse. You know, those who (probably) used to be madly in love and now hate this person more than anyone else.

I think it is weird really. I mean, they're just games. Why get so emotional about it? Especially on the negative side of things. Being super positive about various game companies kind of helps me (try to) be a more positive person in general... what do people get out of the constant negativity?


Posted by 
 on: 08/04/09, 22:16:34
People keep saying that Capcom is in a golden age, the only Japanese company that has really mastered the HD systems, but I actually feel this is probably their weakest gen. Their recent games just don't seem to have that special something to me (with a a couple of exceptions). RE5 was shitty, Dead Rising was clunky, Lost Planet was pretty, but a bit meh, SFIV was good, but too safe. Most of their games are still decent, they have a lot of new IPs, and I still like them better than most other third-parties, but I think the defections have really hurt the 'soul' of the company. I feel like they are pandering to the mainstream Western audience, which is smart, I suppose, but I'm aching for another Maximo or Devil May Cry or Viewtiful Joe or RE4.


Posted by 
 on: 08/05/09, 19:35:30
I agree anandxxx, their game feel watered down to me this gen. RE5 didn't have any sense of there being a director, it just seemed like a bunch of scenes spun from RE4 by a committee. They've been haemoraging creators and that's killing their games.

What it isn't killing is their output and their graphics teams, so on the whole core gamers still love 'em.

That's putting it in a more black and white white than is really fair, but you get my point. ;)


Posted by 
 on: 08/05/09, 19:55:53
original and Dead Rising in the same sentence? does not compute


Posted by 
 on: 08/05/09, 21:41:47
"Another Devil May Cry ? They released DMC4 and got partially rid of Dante and added new mechanics.

I loved Maximo, but it's nothing out of the ordinary either, it was extremely vanilla.

I don't feel a difference in quality or potential from last gen, except maybe stuff like Killer7 (which I didn't like) and Viewtiful Joe, but then again, Dead Rising is IMO more ambitious and original and successful than Viewtiful Joe. Viewtiful Joe was great but it was a brawler with a gimmick that couldn't last more than one game. Lost Planet too is easily at the same level in its core mechanics (the game being overall rushed, we'll see in the sequel)."

I didn't mean, like, another Devil May Cry franchise game. I meant another game that redefines gaming in the way that the first one did. (I have DMC4, but I haven't played it yet.)

Maximo could be, in my opinion, the smartest, most faithful translation of a 2D classic into 3D. They even kept the ball-busting difficulty. I didn't feel that it was vanilla at all. I thought it was a fantastic, challenging 3D hack'n'slash/platformer, with fun, nostalgic throwbacks and many quirky elements, like the save system and the tilted camera angles. I wish that game spawned an army of clones (just like I wish The Cars did), but alas...

Dead Rising, I dunno. I thought I would really love it, but I'm not a big fan of the overall game structure, and, more importantly, it feels super-clunky to me. Capcom (and Konami, in the 2D days) used to be on a par with Nintendo in their grasp of gaming fundamentals, especially in the Action genre. I was pretty disappointed by the controls in Dead Rising.

I don't really feel that Lost Planet is as solid and unique and clever and full of character as Viewtiful Joe, either. Stylistically, nothing they've done recently has even come close to a VJ or Okami. Street Fighter IV was hideous.

I buy systems solely for Capcom support (please port Ultimate Ghosts'n'Goblins and Mega Man Powered Up, so I don't have to buy a PSP!), but they just aren't really doing it for me this gen. Their games are still solid across the board, but they aren't hitting the high notes anymore, in my opinion. SFIV is really good, but it's kind of just SFII+.

I'm looking forward to Dark Void, but that's outsourced. Bionic Commando, I haven't played yet, but the style makes me shiver.

Bitch bitch bitch...


Posted by 
 on: 08/05/09, 22:43:48
Yea, the game's fine but even if you want to say the gameplay is unique (I wouldn't be so quick to say that), the fact that everything else is ripped off from a variety of sources makes it difficult to consider it in any way original.


Posted by 
 on: 08/06/09, 00:03:22
So I figured I'd bump this rather than post another thread about it, because it's not really necessary. Anyhow, orient1 brought this to the attention of the boards:



Nintendo is looking more ****ed than a Tiawana whore right now.
They're looking out of touch.
They can't get over themselves.
Now that you know there's motion controllers for all platforms...who's going to rationalize buying a Wii for $250 when you can get these beasts of machines for an extra $50!? With games that look and sound way better. And Live and PSN.
"My first video game console" - that's what the Wii is right now. I'd tell everyone to stop buying the Wii, but they already have!
Nintendo, it's game-over, bro! And changing the colour of the Wii isn't going to get it done. They have to go with Wii 2 as soon as possible.
I am sick of that console and I have no respect for Nintendo right now.
4-player Super Mario Bros. is not cutting it.




From the Invisible Walls podcast.

People bring up what Nintendo should and shouldn't do to win back people that make such nonsensical comments, but honestly... why should they?

Regardless, Wii's polarization continues to get worse - let me rephrase that. Wii's polarization continues to increase. It's not a "worse/better" thing, because quite frankly it doesn't matter in the long run.

That said, it's annoying to me how folks can easily make their own podcasts nowadays. I get the feeling these same folks have been waging console wars since they were 8. (-__- ')


Posted by 
 on: 08/25/09, 19:29:33
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