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Could the Pendants of Virtue (ALTTP) and the Spiritual Stones (OOT) be the exact same thing? [roundtable]
 

They are all the same color, they are all precious stones, and they all come together to grant access to the Master Sword. In addition, the Pendant of Courage, for example, was lost during the time of the Great War and the 7 Sages. That means that this pendant, and, presumably, the other two, existed during the Ocarina of Time and were important during that time if they were guarded by the knights (Link's line). What do you guys think?

Please be mindful of huge spoilers for those of us who have not finished all Zelda games.

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05/06/13, 01:46    Edited: 05/06/13, 01:46
 
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@Pokefreak911

What layout? It's a rectangle!
05/06/13, 14:08   
@Shadowlink
Rectanglular main room then a round room where the sword sits on a pedestal.
05/06/13, 14:38   
The exacts and artifact? I doubt it. But are the pendants a fragment of the spiritual stones in a more concealed form? Most likely.
05/06/13, 15:32   
@Pokefreak911 - The Temple of Time wasn't even considered until OoT was made. The place where you find the ALttP Master Sword was never intended to be the Temple of Time.

Furthermore, the Temple of Time and Hyrule Castle don't move. The Temple of Time has only ever appeared in three games: OoT, TP, and SS. It falls apart in TP and it gets blown up in SS. And there's no clarification in-game that any of those three temples are the same place either, given that the OoT Temple of Time was built by the ancient sages and the TP Temple of Time was built by the Oocca. Maybe the ancient sages (which would include Rauru) were Oocca, or maybe they each built a different temple. (It's worth noting that the inside of the TP Temple of Time, which you see who knows how long in the past, has no Altar of Time or Door of Time to protect the Master Sword, and removing the Master Sword from its pedestal has nothing to do with the Sacred Realm. This makes it far more likely that the Master Sword was merely moved to this Temple of Time after the events of OoT rather than it being the same place.)

Same deal with Hyrule Castle. It doesn't move on its own. It just gets destroyed and rebuilt elsewhere. In OoT: destroyed. In TP: destroyed. In TWW: destroyed. So it's going to be rebuilt somewhere else after each of those three games.

Now don't get me wrong. I do think the place where you find the Master Sword in ALttP could be the remains of the Temple of Hylia, but that's only because in-game information suggests that SS takes place way later in the timeline than Hyrule Historia says it does, and the ALttP Master Sword acts a lot more like the SS Master Sword than the OoT/TP/TWW Master Sword. In reality, we can't say for sure that the area belongs to the remains of any old temple. For all we know, the sages placed the Master Sword in the Lost Woods all on their own just for safe keeping since they created it to repel the powers of the Triforce. No connection to any temple at all.
05/06/13, 18:48   
No. These are circular. What a silly question.
05/06/13, 18:49   
V_s said:
@Pokefreak911 - The Temple of Time wasn't even considered until OoT was made. The place where you find the ALttP Master Sword was never intended to be the Temple of Time.

Furthermore, the Temple of Time and Hyrule Castle don't move. The Temple of Time has only ever appeared in three games: OoT, TP, and SS. It falls apart in TP and it gets blown up in SS.

Yes, the Temple of Time never moves at all. But Hyrule Castle does. The much should be clear from looking at the maps of TP and OoT

And there's no clarification in-game that any of those three temples are the same place either, given that the OoT Temple of Time was built by the ancient sages and the TP Temple of Time was built by the Oocca. Maybe the ancient sages (which would include Rauru) were Oocca, or maybe they each built a different temple. (It's worth noting that the inside of the TP Temple of Time, which you see who knows how long in the past, has no Altar of Time or Door of Time to protect the Master Sword, and removing the Master Sword from its pedestal has nothing to do with the Sacred Realm. This makes it far more likely that the Master Sword was merely moved to this Temple of Time after the events of OoT rather than it being the same place.)

I doubt another Temple was built in a completely different place. My assumption is that sometime after SS, Gaepora/ Rauru rebuilt the OoT ToT over the SS one. This is further evidence by Hyrule Historia blatantly saying he did. OoT ToT and SS ToT are the same.
Now, seeing as Rauru is the Sage of Light and the only way to get to the Light Temple is through the ToT, the Light Temple being accessed from the ToT in TP means that it is likely to be the same ToT. It also looks very similar to the previous ToTs.


Same deal with Hyrule Castle. It doesn't move on its own. It just gets destroyed and rebuilt elsewhere. In OoT: destroyed. In TP: destroyed. In TWW: destroyed. So it's going to be rebuilt somewhere else after each of those three games.

That's what I meant by moved. Sorry for not being clearer.

Now don't get me wrong. I do think the place where you find the Master Sword in ALttP could be the remains of the Temple of Hylia, but that's only because in-game information suggests that SS takes place way later in the timeline than Hyrule Historia says it does, and the ALttP Master Sword acts a lot more like the SS Master Sword than the OoT/TP/TWW Master Sword. In reality, we can't say for sure that the area belongs to the remains of any old temple. For all we know, the sages placed the Master Sword in the Lost Woods all on their own just for safe keeping since they created it to repel the powers of the Triforce. No connection to any temple at all.

I don't see why the Master Sword would be anywhere but the ToT. All evidence points to it always being in the ToT and until something contradicts that, my theory is sound.

Also what evidence makes SS look like it takes place further in the future?


05/07/13, 05:29   
Nintendo never thought about any of these things until their Zelda nerd nation started asking all of these questions haha
05/07/13, 05:34   
Pokefreak911 said:
Yes, the Temple of Time never moves at all. But Hyrule Castle does. The much should be clear from looking at the maps of TP and OoT

Hyrule Castle was destroyed during the 7 year gap in OoT. It makes sense that they would rebuild it somewhere other than that giant lava pit that used to be Ganon's castle.

I doubt another Temple was built in a completely different place. My assumption is that sometime after SS, Gaepora/ Rauru rebuilt the OoT ToT over the SS one. This is further evidence by Hyrule Historia blatantly saying he did. OoT ToT and SS ToT are the same.
Now, seeing as Rauru is the Sage of Light and the only way to get to the Light Temple is through the ToT, the Light Temple being accessed from the ToT in TP means that it is likely to be the same ToT. It also looks very similar to the previous ToTs.


But the games disagree with Hyrule Historia in many ways, including the origins of the temples. The only way the TP Temple of Time can be the same place as the OoT Temple of Time is if Rauru is an Oocca in human form (and it magically moved or the Lost Woods crept that far north).

That's what I meant by moved. Sorry for not being clearer.

Okay, there's no problem with that then. I thought you were just talking about it magically and inexplicably moving rather than being destroyed and rebuilt somewhere else.

I don't see why the Master Sword would be anywhere but the ToT. All evidence points to it always being in the ToT and until something contradicts that, my theory is sound.

Also what evidence makes SS look like it takes place further in the future?


Regarding the Master Sword, the Master Sword/Goddess Sword wasn't in the Temple of Time in TWW, the Oracles, or SS when Link first found it. There is absolutely nothing that dictates that the Master Sword must remain in the Temple of Time, especially since the only reason it was put in the Temple of Time in the first place was to protect the entrance to the Sacred Realm, which it no longer does in any other game outside of OoT.

As for the evidence regarding SS taking place further in the future: ALttP, OoT, and TP all say that when the goddesses created the Triforce, they placed it in the Sacred Realm and it remained there until the events of OoT. SS tells us that the Triforce was out in the Light World when Demise attacked. That alone tells us that SS can't take place before OoT. Furthermore, the SS Master Sword has nothing in common with the Master Sword spoken on in ALttP, TWW, and TP. It wasn't created at the behest of the goddesses like ALttP says, it wasn't created for the purpose of resisting the powers of the Triforce like ALttP said, it wasn't created by the people of Hyrule like ALttP says, it wasn't hidden away when no hero could be found to wield it like ALttP says, it wasn't powered by a Wind and Earth Sage praying to the gods like TWW says, and it wasn't crafted by the wisdom of the ancient sages like TP says. (Plus it shoots sword beams, which the OoT/TP/TWW Master Sword can't. I think it's likely here that the ALttP legend talked about the OoT/TP/TWW Master Sword, but the ALttP Master Sword is actually the SS Master Sword; this would especially make since if SS takes place in the land of New Hyrule rather than Old Hyrule, which is also hinted at because the provinces in Old Hyrule were named after the Light Spirits, but SS says that the provinces in that game were named after the dragons. Also, SS features what appears to be the Spirit Tower from ST and a bunch of rail tracks, so there's also that.)

Also, the people of Hyrule have completely forgotten about the goddesses by the time of SS. Back in OoT and TP, they remembered the names of the golden goddesses (and the fact that they were goddesses). In TWW, their names were remembered, but they were just referred to as gods, if I remember correctly (or maybe I have that backwards, with their names being forgotten, but them still being referred to as goddesses...). In SS, none of the people of Hyrule remembered any of the goddesses names or even the fact that they were goddesses. They were only known as "the old gods" to everyone (except Fi). And ALttP continues this by telling us that the people of Hyrule don't know the names of the creation gods, and everyone refers to the creations gods as "gods", not "goddesses".

Plus, if SS did take place before TWW and Zelda was always Hylia (and there's only one Master Sword), that would mean that in TWW Link would have had no reason to search for and find Medli and Makar to become the new sages. Zelda could have just blessed the sword right then and there to restore it to full power.

Also, regarding the Master Sword again, we know that there has to be more than one Master Sword since the Oracles take place after ALttP, and they feature the Master Sword (and you can obtain it without a password, so you can't really make the "password-system-makes-it-non-canon" argument). ALttP ends by telling us that the Master Sword sleeps forever at its end. So the Oracles Master Sword has to be a different blade. Besides, PH essentially confirmed that multiple Phantom Swords have existed, which tells us that it's possible for multiples of a single legendary sword to exist, and given the differences in abilities and origins, there's no reason to assume that the SS Master Sword is the OoT/TP/TWW Master Sword.
05/07/13, 06:00   
@V_s
I'll reply back properly later on, busy at the moment but I am enjoying this.
05/07/13, 07:00   
Take your time. I need to be studying for finals right now.
05/07/13, 07:18   
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