* * * * * Chrono Trigger - Week 5 * * * * *

(Plain English: Scroll down to the bottom of the "OP" if you're lagging behind for previous weeks)


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Prologue:
i Okami Club
ii Fire Emblem Club

Epic Center:
01 Ogre Battle
24 Secret of Mana
39 Phantasy Star IV (cont'd)
67 Earthbound (cont'd)
99 Breath of Fire II (cont'd)
110 Paper Mario (cont'd)
123 Golden Sun (cont'd)
136 Chrono Trigger

(ALL VINTAGE EC GAMES ARE CONTINUED IN THEIR OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREADS!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hello, true believers! Welcome to Negative World's newest RPG-centric Club Hub, springing off the heels of the Fire Emblem Club. Way back when, Nintendo Power introduced a monthly walkthrough / in depth Role Play Game section (right around the beefiest SNES RPG era), but since they aren't around anymore to use it, Negative World will bring it out of the ashes, dust it off, and roll with it (two things of note: #1, this is not in reaction to Nintendo Force Magazine at all -- I know that because I thought of it in the shower this morning, so THERE; and #2, I just looked up "Epic Center RPG" on Yahoo, and there is apparently another RPG-based site that has that, ugh. I guess we're looking at a "Ghostbusters" / "Real Ghostbusters" thing now... Whatever..).

For anyone who grew playing SNES RPGs, and were a fan of them, they surely resonated to the point where they still hold office as some of your favorite games of your entire videogame life, systems, generations, and decades later. The NW Epic Center (run primarily by myself, with the aid of some special friends occasionally) will help to expose some of those games that didn't quite get the recognition they deserved, and also to relive some of the greatest games EVER as we play through them again -- together -- and open up a whole new dialogue on these lost treasures.


Next up..



Chrono Trigger is held by many (myself included) as The Greatest RPG of All Time, pun not intended. It is a benchmark title in the genre, and even after 20 years the game is discussed daily and held in high regard, even in the face of juiced-up, HD "masterpieces." Is simpler sometimes better? Sure, but we're not talking "Dragon Warrior" simple here; we're talking 16-bit perfection at its finest. I'm personally a bit worried about pursuing this game once more; it's been a long time since my last jog through it, and I'm afraid I might have the rosiest pair of glasses that any shot of nostalgia could ever produce. We find out later this month, for better or for worse. (C'mon, it's gonna be fine -- we're talking Chrono Trigger here!! THE BEST, JERRY, THE BEST!!)

Sunday, August 30th marks the start of Week 1 (if you prefer to start your own quest AFTER Sunday, like Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, thats fine!). Golden Sun ran 6 Weeks. GameDadGrant will be our DUNGEON MASTER for this one, and we figure the playthrough to run about the same length. Less than two months. I'm told the total quest should last you between 20 and 30 hours.


See ya soon!!


CHRONO TRIGGER

Dungeon Master: GameDadGrant

You Did It! Chrono Trigger Complete:
VofEscaflowne
Scrawnton
Mop it up
Ludist210


Week 4 Complete:
GameDadGrant
mrbiggsly
DapperDave

Week 3 Complete:
Mr_Mustache (and Mrs_Mustache!)

Week 2 Complete:
Smerd
Dark weres
warerare
sirmastersephiroth

Week 1 Complete:
Anand

Triggermen:
HammerLord
Koovaps

Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5

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How much time per week do you think it will be taking? Just curious.

@Zero

I'm not sure. It took me a while when I was younger..but I was younger. I figured maybe 4ish? I'll run the first two weeks as I think they should be, and we can adjust accordingly. Week 1 shouldn't be long at all. The first stage is like 10 minutes of stuff (and you can turn your game speed up very high, too). It takes guys a long while to travel depending on their movement type and what they're trudging through, but any High Sky units will fly over whatever like a gryphon out of hell.

Oh man, sounds like GameDadGrant will be joining us as well. Solid!

Aye. I'm in.

I'll download the game later today, with the Wii Points I traded Jargon for earlier this week.

Ok fine I decided to not rush into this, and will try to burn through Uncharted 3 over the next week or two instead.

Either way I don't think I will be keeping up with weeks that require 4 hours of play though. Just warning you. We'll see.

@GameDadGrant

Yesssss. EDIT- Went with the Octopus. Its like your little goldfish sprung 8 legs for this thing!
Changed Pokefreak to a Hawk Man, too. I..feel it fits better! (and with good and evil branches..hmm)

@Zero

I believe in you -- in all regards without question! BTW, I changed your 'av' up there from "General" to "Doll Mage," since you pull the strings around here. And he has argyle socks.

This sounds like fun! I'll be playing along, I've always wanted an excuse to sink some more time into this classic, I also tweeted and made a post linking here on my G+ Community, to hopefully attract some new participants.

I'm guessing we'll be able to keep up if we complete 1 map per day?

@Dark Weres

Welcome to NW! And yes, you can get by on HALF a map a day, probably; if you're completely new to this whole thing, you can check out our Fire Emblem Club or Okami Club (ending, and ended) and see how those go. Basically, I'll put up a few Chapters to hit a week, and just have 'em done by Midnight Saturday Night at the end of the week when I put more stuff up. I've been playing most of my stuff on Sunday afternoons lately, and into the night. Feels good to have it "out of the way" (even though the games are awesome), and you feel like you've accomplished something, even if you kinda haven't, haha.

But yes, thank you, and good way of putting it; you should be solid with just one map a day (but don't run ahead!).

I believe that Dark Weres signed up before, hadn't posted, then got today's newsletter and came back to join us in Ogre Battle (and vote for GOTY.)

My newsletters are doing something!

@Zero

I saw it got changed to a 99, too. Fine by me!

(Also, it should be known, this is NOT only for Ogre Battle! We're just serving Ogre Battle now..)

EDIT- Wow, this is Dark Weres' top game here. If Ogre Battle had 10 votes, it'd rank 7th on SNES at press time. I feel for the folks who aren't playing this for whatever reason; our low score here is an 8.7. Is this an instance of a game being so niche that it hurts and helps at the same time? (ie: it doesn't get enough attention, so less people will hate it, and the people it calls out to REALLY like it? Weird.)

--DW, is Ninja Gaiden really that good? I got it for Christmas and I haven't opened it up yet. If its that awesome, I'm very much looking forward to it more than I was!!

Yeah I wanted to list it in the newsletter without having it have to be a "you must be logged in" thread. Most people just want to click and view.

Zero said:

I believe that Dark Weres signed up before, hadn't posted, then got today's newsletter and came back to join us in Ogre Battle (and vote for GOTY.)

You believe correctly. I've been looking for an excuse to be more active in forums in general. I love complex RPGs, ones that you almost need to learn a "code" to thrive in, and Ogre Battle, with its strict rules of conduct and warfare, fits the bill nicely. Nintendo consoles could certainly do with more RPGs that up the complexity-factor. I've no doubt that Intelligent Systems won't disappoint us, but the burden can't be theirs alone. Having more third party RPG developers join in on this would certainly benefit both them, and fans of games such as Ogre Battle. Tactics Ogre creator Yasumi Matsuno has recently released Crimson Shroud on the 3DS, and I'm hoping his designs are next aimed at the Wii U. Drawing more attention to Ogre Battle on the Virtual Console, I believe, will certainly nudge the fates in that direction :D

Mr_Mustache said:

@Zero
--DW, is Ninja Gaiden really that good? I got it for Christmas and I haven't opened it up yet. If its that awesome, I'm very much looking forward to it more than I was!!

YES, NINJA GAIDEN 3: RAZOR'S EDGE IS EXCELLENT! (Shake shake) excuse me, I was just playing it online and had to get rid of all that blood. With the 3 playable kunoichi available, and the weapons and skills you can customize with the "Nameless Ninja" the online is jumping with a variety of potential partners. I play the Ninja Trials early in the morning, and I can always find a partner. Not to say the story's lacking, story-mode is a great way to train yourself for the challenges that lie afterwards.

With the note that I have no problem with it, why did you choose a skeleton for me?

@Dark Weres

Man, awesome post. I..that was awesome. Tell ShadowLink to get over here. He needs someone else's Ogre Battle Love around him.

@chrisbg99

I don't know! I can give you anything you want? What kind of guy would you like? I can't really show you the whole thing without spoiling the game. There aren't any humanoid roaches, or else you'd get one of those.

I was just curious what the thought process was. I wasn't sure if you were going for puns or personal references of some sort.

Ok, I'm in too. This sounds like too much fun. Hopefully the strict pace will help me get through this.

@chrisbg99

I can't think of anything for ya, man. I'll try something new (since you don't like the Skeleton), lemme know what you think..

@Koovaps

Welcome! Now, for something green..

I apparently hit the character limit up there, so I'll have to link to this from the "OP."


A Little Help:
I'll probably add to this as we go along (or maybe I won't, who knows), but I figured I'd start typing this now before people want to start and they're like "wait, what? Huh?"

Alright, Ogre Battle has a bunch of things to wrap your head around, but the ONE overarching thing that affects everything in this game is your Reputation Meter (how the people of the world think of you!). It sits in the upper right hand side of the screen, just hangin' out. Depending on what ending you're going for, this is integral to your getting there. Just know that if you want all of the complicated endings, you'll need to have this meter nearly PEGGED to the top by Chapter 10 or so. There is an important item there that REQUIRES a high reputation, and even if you're somehow seeking the super-evil ending, you need that item. If your reputation is NOT high enough, I'm not immediately sure what happens. I think you can get a blah ending, but you won't have access to special stages or anything. I never got the item as a kid (and never beat the game as a kid), so I don't know firsthand of the lasting impact. Its somewhat hidden, so if you don't find it, I'm pretty sure you can still beat the game..just without that.

"So, how do I keep my Reputation high?" Good question. Early on, you'll just be kinda stagnant with the meter, but once you gain some momentum, it'll start cruising towards the top (or can bottom out fast). In this game you Liberate cities, that is the goal. By Liberating cities, you gain Goth (money) at the end of the day, you generally gain reputation, and you get to draw a tarot card. The best way to raise your reputation is to have a high Alignment unit Liberate the town. "What does that mean?" Generally goodly characters, Clerics and the like, Knights, Angels, stuff like that. Think about how a city would feel if they saw an evil Wizard, a Skeleton, and a Hellhound walking towards them? Booo! In this event, you will Capture a city, which is no good, and your reputation will probably take a hit at that point. (And I'm not sure, might be mixing my games up, but you should be able to look and see what a city's Morale is; if your Unit Average Alignment is ABOVE their Morale, it will be a Liberation; anything below would be a Capture.) Best bet: create a City Liberating Unit, comprised of your best, friendliest, take-home-to-Mom characters. Once you've liberated, feel free to move those scary creeps in there without penalty. I like to put my "Opinion Leader" in there, the character that we'll create and name at the beginning of the game (how you create your character doesn't set in stone your entire game, but it sets the pace). This keeps him out of action (which is suggested early on, actually), and some cities have special conversations for units containing 'you.'

--OH, and NEVER, EVER allow the enemy to retake a town. Thats like.. "look how he treats us, he doesn't care about us!" Don't do it!! (your Reputation will drop like a hot rock. Thats WORSE than a hot potato..though science shows that...

"Why should I keep the Opinion Leader out of action?" In order to get a high Alignment with a character, you usually want to be fighting units STRONGER than you. If you're wiping the floor with units WEAKER than you, you're going to look like a bully, and a huge jerk, and your Alignment is going to drop like a rock. I've found that its best to have some units bred for fighting, on both sides of the spectrum. You CAN have a low Alignment with some characters, and its great..but for those that are SUPPOSED to be low. That Wizard I mentioned earlier, he'll have a grand 'ol time mopping up weaker units (and those with higher Alignments, too), and chuckle to himself as he grows powerful with raw evil. Your Knight will have a tough time with it though (not really, you can do what you want), but he'll look forward to smiting the world of Imps. Does it make sense? Its basically good vs. evil, all game long. The reputation meter is mostly separate from that, but if you want YOU-YOU to have a high alignment, you gotta be careful with how you use him/her. Oh, and if he dies, you lose. You'll just start the round over, but it ends right there. (The chapter also ends with a re-do if they take your Base.)

I guess thats it for now? It'll make more sense once you get going, really. You'll learn which of your characters are generally good, and generally evil, and you'll be making your own fantastic units before its done. Just keep an eye on that alignment, yeah. If you get a powerhouse unit, and you destroy everyone with it, I hope you didn't have any aspirations for good-guy success, haha. There is a guy early on that you pick up, and he's awesome, especially early on; I was just trucking units with him, and before I knew it, his ALI was 0. I named him "The Black Knight" in my head, and went about my day. The problem? For a Knight to change class (to the next thing in the Knight path), the ALI needs to be about 65. Just know that if someone IS going off path, you can change them BACK to a Fighter (the base level; females are Amazons), and change him to something else that makes sense. (In that case, that guy would probably become a Wild Man -- see HammerLord -- and go upwards from there on the proper path.)


Don't let the numbers drive you crazy. It'll be fun!

This game seems like it will take a while to fully 'get'