* * * * * Chrono Trigger - Week 5 * * * * *

(Plain English: Scroll down to the bottom of the "OP" if you're lagging behind for previous weeks)


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Prologue:
i Okami Club
ii Fire Emblem Club

Epic Center:
01 Ogre Battle
24 Secret of Mana
39 Phantasy Star IV (cont'd)
67 Earthbound (cont'd)
99 Breath of Fire II (cont'd)
110 Paper Mario (cont'd)
123 Golden Sun (cont'd)
136 Chrono Trigger

(ALL VINTAGE EC GAMES ARE CONTINUED IN THEIR OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREADS!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hello, true believers! Welcome to Negative World's newest RPG-centric Club Hub, springing off the heels of the Fire Emblem Club. Way back when, Nintendo Power introduced a monthly walkthrough / in depth Role Play Game section (right around the beefiest SNES RPG era), but since they aren't around anymore to use it, Negative World will bring it out of the ashes, dust it off, and roll with it (two things of note: #1, this is not in reaction to Nintendo Force Magazine at all -- I know that because I thought of it in the shower this morning, so THERE; and #2, I just looked up "Epic Center RPG" on Yahoo, and there is apparently another RPG-based site that has that, ugh. I guess we're looking at a "Ghostbusters" / "Real Ghostbusters" thing now... Whatever..).

For anyone who grew playing SNES RPGs, and were a fan of them, they surely resonated to the point where they still hold office as some of your favorite games of your entire videogame life, systems, generations, and decades later. The NW Epic Center (run primarily by myself, with the aid of some special friends occasionally) will help to expose some of those games that didn't quite get the recognition they deserved, and also to relive some of the greatest games EVER as we play through them again -- together -- and open up a whole new dialogue on these lost treasures.


Next up..



Chrono Trigger is held by many (myself included) as The Greatest RPG of All Time, pun not intended. It is a benchmark title in the genre, and even after 20 years the game is discussed daily and held in high regard, even in the face of juiced-up, HD "masterpieces." Is simpler sometimes better? Sure, but we're not talking "Dragon Warrior" simple here; we're talking 16-bit perfection at its finest. I'm personally a bit worried about pursuing this game once more; it's been a long time since my last jog through it, and I'm afraid I might have the rosiest pair of glasses that any shot of nostalgia could ever produce. We find out later this month, for better or for worse. (C'mon, it's gonna be fine -- we're talking Chrono Trigger here!! THE BEST, JERRY, THE BEST!!)

Sunday, August 30th marks the start of Week 1 (if you prefer to start your own quest AFTER Sunday, like Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, thats fine!). Golden Sun ran 6 Weeks. GameDadGrant will be our DUNGEON MASTER for this one, and we figure the playthrough to run about the same length. Less than two months. I'm told the total quest should last you between 20 and 30 hours.


See ya soon!!


CHRONO TRIGGER

Dungeon Master: GameDadGrant

You Did It! Chrono Trigger Complete:
VofEscaflowne
Scrawnton
Mop it up
Ludist210


Week 4 Complete:
GameDadGrant
mrbiggsly
DapperDave

Week 3 Complete:
Mr_Mustache (and Mrs_Mustache!)

Week 2 Complete:
Smerd
Dark weres
warerare
sirmastersephiroth

Week 1 Complete:
Anand

Triggermen:
HammerLord
Koovaps

Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5

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@Pokefreak911

Hmm. Well, have you tried showing them the game? (as an aside) My mom babysat kids FOR YEARS, and when I was younger (and they were around your brother's age), they'd gather 'round the TV and watch for hours. No joke. Maybe not CONSTANTLY, but I let them make groups, and I'd put them out there and stuff. It was a fun time!

I remember playing Wizards & Warriors, too, with a mini-audience. I should play that soon...

@Mr_Mustache
I may, but it isn't their type of game. Even though one of them likes Strategy, i'm not sure he would like this strategy...

@Pokefreak911

My brother is a lazy 26 year old who makes a mess without cleaning it up

@Mr_Mustache

Money isn't that much of an issue after I sold some stuff I had. The frustration was really coming from all of my problems combined.

It was basically that I lost a couple of towns which killed my rep. And I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I have a team that has all characters almost at 100 ali capturing towns and my rep gets a tiny sliver. And if I lose a town or pull a Death card a good chunk disappears.

Sometimes it reminds me of Fire Emblem where the AI just goes after where you're weakest with no thought to what makes sense strategically.

@gojira

UGH. I just wrote a bunch and lost it. Now you're getting a shorter, not as good version..


Tiny slivers x10 will add up after a bit. Don't sweat the cards; good cards will come, too. How is your Lord's Luck? I don't think it affects cards, but it certainly can't help to be a lucky guy! I still get Death, Devil, Hanged Man, Tower, bad Fortune, all that stuff. It'll add up after a while. Just keep doing what you're doing, and work on your D a little bit.

How do you start a stage? Nikki and I like to have our High / Low Sky guys sent out farther than the other guys like scouts. That way, when they first appear, you can click on them and make sure you're ready for them. Move aside and let them deal with your other 7-8 units. A lot of guys make a beeline for the base, so you can just leave a little cluster there, and when you weaken 'em, slam the door on them! I found that in Tundra, a lot of guys were forced to use the main road and went alllll the way to my base..only to lose their leader and retreat back along the road..and get stopped at the bridge by my Iron Golem and company. Gotta pay the troll toll..

So those towns -- again -- how are you losing them? Are you unprepared? Overwelmed? (ie: are they bringing undead when you have no clerics? Physically strong units where you can't crack them without magic?) I like to pair guys up, or keep 'em close. Strong High ALI with Magic Low ALI, for instance. Lans and Warren hang out a lot.

I really with frustration wasn't there for you guys. I mean, the only thing that SHOULD be frustrating is figuring out which 100 guys you want to keep, or which units to send out. You've only got two weeks left, 7* stages at your current pace, and I want you to end this thing on a high note, feeling like you achieved something instead of feeling screwed by the system or something.


Your Rep will get there, you can do it! Put that fence up!

@gojira

I understand your frustration, especially about your rep. I finally got rolling on scene 9 and liberated a town and a temple and parked 2 units on each. I had 2 High Sky units out for mobility and to pick up scraps. I also had Lans covering the base with a couple other units close by. I then sent my Lord out to liberate a few out of the way town for the moolah and rep and to hopefully stay out of battle. I figured he could handle himself, he hardly ever loses. Well, my main forces were handling themselves ok, but some enemies found my Lord. I thought he'd be okay, but in one battle, his Ice Cloud hit all the enemies, but ALL my other guys missed ALL their attacks. I lost, kept trying to fight, but eventually lost 2 guys in that unit and had to retreat. I then lost the 2 towns I liberated over there. Bummer.

That said, it felt great playing again. I know I'm way back, but I think I'm nearly done with 9. I cleared 2 big waves of enemies and only have a couple bad guys floating around. I recently upgraded a few guys and found out Lans' unit is killer! He was usually my protect the base guy, but I turned a wizard into a mage in his group and wow! At one point I sent him into the thick of things and he quickly cleaned up. I definitely need to know my units better and have to scout those bad guys to be better prepared.

@gojira
@Koovaps

Are you guys using Items at all? Like, do you buy Revives, Heals, etc? We're using them CONSTANTLY over here. "They cost money," sure, but part of me wonders if it wouldn't be worth it to spend that money on items so you aren't constantly dead / giving up cities.

Also, are you returning to the scene of the crime after you're done with it? I just read about returning to the boss place on Tundra (for Gojira) with a Low Rep, and you're handed an item which can simply be sold for 168K. Thats...a lot of money.

@Mr_Mustache

Nope, not using items. I'm a dope. If I play a bit tonight (and I hope to) I'll take a look at what I got and what I can buy.

@Koovaps

Oh my gosh you guys, yeah, buy stuff. I think I used to not buy anything (for some reason), too. I have like..90 Heals on me at all times. And Reviving at the Temple is STUPID expensive. The Revive item does the same thing for just 2000. Weird how that worked out.

I use heals, revives a decent amount. I learned very early on revives are cheaper than temples. Is there a way to tell which town has a store. Sometimes I really need an item and can't find a place to buy one for the life of me.

@gojira

I think you can click on them and one of them says SHOP.

You can always go back to another stage and use their shop, too. Don't forget that stuff.
Did you go back and get that Item I talked about up there? Make some money, mannnn!

I'll try to remember to do it first thing when I play next.

@gojira

There are a bunch of areas you can go back to if you haven't. And I know a lot of the items that have been available are for those of an unsavory rep. Did you pick up an Item -- CARVING?, maybe? -- recently? That is a "sell it!" Item, too. Lots of 'em are..

All I have left is the boss on 9. And I noticed that I did have a few revives and several heals with me, and they certainly helped. I had been reviving at temples and it was getting quite expensive. I think I just forgot the basics when things got crazy. I need to keep a cooler head and use all my resources.

@Koovaps

We found the best way is to just have a WARCHEST of the stuff so you're never scrambling. I remember the game..feeling different for me when I was younger, where guys killing me and doing damage felt much scarier. Now I'm like "ugh, don't kill them!" and then I'm Reviving them in 25 seconds and everything is fine (minus the XP Restart on their current Level). And yes, I have no idea why the Temples are that expensive when its obviously cheaper to just use a Revive. Not that I'm complaining, but you'd figure it to be someone inverted; like a Revive was 5000 and the Temple stuff COULD be less, so to save money you'd actually have to go to the Temple. Know what I mean?

But that doesnt' happen, so Revive away!

All righty. Late night stream for sure today, folks! Well, late night running to all day tomorrow if you guys want to bother watching / tuning in at that time. However much I can do to catch up to where we're at now. I'm totally doing it now, just firing up all the equipment and offering prayers to Palutena that it all works well together. I'll edit this post with the link to the place (and maybe a mod can embed it if possible) once it goes live.

Edit: I tried making a G+ hangout, but when testing it out with an incognito window, realized that I'd have to link the DW Youtube account in order to take full advantage of it, so I'm going back to our UStream channel for this one.

We should be live soon at This Channel If we're not currently live, then you should see a slideshow of game characters if the video is working.

Edit II: Completed Muspelm, got the sword, but no Crown upon revisit. But that's okay, I got a Crown as a random drop from an enemy unit! Taking a break to refill my coffee mug, go to the washroom, move the laundry from the washer to the dryer, &c. Will update again when I'm back online.

Edit III: Hrmfl? Is it morning already? OH SHAZBOT I SHOULD HAVE DONE A WHOLE 'NOTHER MAP BY NOW. Well, let's get that coffee in me and start on Organa and see if the strategy that worked so well on Muspelm holds together as well for this map. I might be able to make a slow reputation recovery yet.

Edit IV: Done Organa! I think I found everything in it, and I remembered to wait a couple of days before finishing the map so that I could make a little extra cash. Adding a princess to my weakest High-Align group suddently turned it into the strongest one!

WEEK 7

-Scene 19: The Assassin: Dalmuhd Desert - Hidden Cities / Temples: 2 - Hidden Treasure: 4
-Scene 20: Final Paradise: Ryhan Sea - Hidden Cities / Temples: 2 - Treasure: 6
-Scene 21: Separation: Fort Shulamana - Hidden Cities / Temples: 1 - Treasure: 2
-Scene 22: Grail: Shrine of Kulyn - Hidden Cities / Temples: 9 - Treasure: 5


General Tips and things to remember:
-If you've been keeping up and getting EVERYTHING as intended here, there are no more special characters to get. Your army is what it is now, and you can form it however you like. No need to worry about having room for so-and-so; its all you now!
-We finally get the Tablet this week, so we can toootally get some awesome Zodiac stones. Yeahhh!
-I don't know what else to type here. Do it to it!


Spoilers / handholding, of course..Tips for Scene 19: Desert: Mountain units haul in the desert, too. Dig it! Word is you should bring Cold weapons out for this one to do more damage to certain classes. Treasure is in the bottom half; run due West from the smaller patch of sand in the grass. See how that works. If you pass Chabahaul, you've gone too far. There is a hidden city west of the mini-pond right above Chabahaul. If you continue north of the mini-pond on the way to the base, you should run into some more treasure. If you've passed the lake completely, you've gone too far. In the lake, treasure hidden on the largest island. Another hidden city it north of Hilzabard; if you start at the grass part on the south side of the river, and start at the uppermost part, if you go straight up north, you should hit it. When you find that City, go straight to Konsh, and you should find more treasure. If you pass the pokey part of the pondy area near Hilzabard..you've gone too far. Stupid desert stage with no landmarks! No special character required for the big fight, but they are fassst. Suggested Tarots are Chariot, Hermit, or Judgment. Afterwards, return to Aliabard. If you have the Silver/Mercury from Pogrom Forest (WEEK 2 STUFF!!), the wise man Gizolfi will trade a Doun Gem for it, one piece of getting the Tablet of Yaru. Once we get that, we're on our way to getting the ultimate ending, yeahhh! (Now head BACK to the Pogrom Forest, the town of Para where you got the Silver/Mercury, and Boltorano will swap your Doun Gem for the Orb. NICE!) For those on a different trek with a Low Rep, head over to Kahrngarn, you can get some Orc Fur. Free of charge! Sell it! And a Zodiac Stone..but we need that Tablet still..
Tips for Scene 20: Rhyan Sea: MORE QUEEN!! (SONG BELOW!!) Looks like the water is back! But actually, those units aren't suggested. They don't send a lot of water units your way, but rather a lot of goodly characters because the Boss is supposed to be goodly or something. Beware your Undead friends. Straightforward besides that. Hidden Temple in the mountains southeastish of your base. Treasure is southwestish of the Y river deal on the bottom half of the map, and more treasure in between the Temple and Harmehella on the island above. In the middle portion of the map, near the 4 mountain clump, there is treasure above the left and right mountains, bordering the largest one. Another piece of treasure is hidden in the middle of the clump above, east and somewhat north of Selam. Last piece of treasure is in between the middle mountain and Raiyagam, while a hidden Temple is off to the left on the island. Shwew! After your boss fight with this Dandy, return to Ramoto. Meeting the witch Tarut, and after returning to the Forest, you should have 2 of the 3 Items required. She'll give you the True Gem to complete the set; return to Shangrila with the stones to get the Tablet. Yeahhh!! Start collecting those stones, woo!

Here are the locations of the ones we've missed so far: Slums of Zenobia, Temple NW of your Base; Dalmuhd Desert, the only Temple; Diaspola, in Ajan; Shiguld, the Temple W of Dallasu; Island Avalon, hidden Temble in the mountains; Diaspola, town of Somyul -- but first, go to Organa, the Temple on the SE corner of the main island. You'll get a Cake which you can bring back to that town in Diaspola, and if you helped Posha before she'll be htere, and discover a Stone for you. Keen gear! Moving on.. City of Malano, Sanbelna; Muspelm, hidden Temple SE of Fidelin; Shangrila, the only Temple; Lake Jannenia, temple E of Allephalb; Ryhan Sea, temple S of your Base; Tundra, hidden Temple NE of Valhalla. ...And that should be all 12!

--Gosh, lets do a new stage!
Tips for Scene 21: Fort Shulamana; free Salamands in the Mountains! Free Krakens in the Ocean! A special item awaits you at the end of this stage, but you need to have recruited Tristran long ago. Anyway, mountains galore so whip out your Big Red Dragons and Werewolves. In the town of Orappa, an item will be handed to you depending on your Rep. The High one is an Ivory GODDESS. SABLEFUR for the lower option. Sell 'em. Treasure in the mountains SW of the first Temple you see. If you go down in the mountains a little more, you'll find another Temple (which has a sweet Item, FAFHNIEL). Proceed SW from there, heading OUT of the mountains towards the water (and the enemy Base). That is the hidden stuff on the stage; head over to the Temple North of the Enemy Base / W of Ochiwalong and get another Item, NOTOS! You may've already found one of those before. Whatevs! Head to Mafe Kin and learn about some Mystic Treasures. Wicked. Boss fight, no special guy needed..but again, you need Tristran to get the special dialogue at the end. This guy has dark guys with him, so it wouldn't hurt to bring someone awesomely white. I have Princess Norn / Debonair together. Maybe I'll bring them.. The Boss himself is weak to Lightning though, so maybe I'll bring my Tristran / Rauny group. Decisions decisions! After the fight, You and Tristran will have a chat, and with a Near Full Rep, you should get the ARMBAND. Mystic Treasure, wooooo. Afterwards, nothing hugely important until after later stages and you come back here, and even then, not so big. Check the towns out for yourself, I always do. Dig it.
Tips for Scene 22: Shrine of Kulyn; gosh, so much typing. Another water stage here where you can actually use water guys, we've got enemies weak to Lightning so break out your Museseses. Lets get the hidden stuff out of the way; off to the left, the bottom two islands have a City and a Temple on them, and there is treasure hidden on the island above them. On the island above THAt, another hidden City. no the other side of the map, below the mountain on the island is hidden treasure, and a twon above it on the other island. On the left chain of islands, there is one city on the rightmost of the three, and a temple on the island far above. There is treasure hidden between the mountains above San Martin, and a city on the island above the enemy base. On the other side of the map, a hidden town below the mountain, a hidden temple above on the next island, and treasure on the small island. I REALLY hope someone is reading this stuff. PLEASE. Ok, stuff to know. When you hit Lon Loques, you are greeted by a Thief, and he offers you something. Accepting will cost you some Reputation. I will choose to not be greased here, you may do as you please. Apparently you lose about 1/6 of your meter. No thank you! If you don't care, you'll get a CAMEO. When you get to Tridan, you'll be greeted by a Monk offering to find the Boss' weak point..for 150k! If you accept, she'll tell you that he's weak to Fire..and give you a BOLEAS! Its a weapon, and one of those Legendary things. Wouldn't that be cool if one of us actually got the FIRESEAL and became the first recorded person to find Dragon's Haven IN-game? RAD. In Maltinique, they will tell you about the truth of the GRAIL you may've heard about previously. Mulligan's Land will give you more info. Alright..I want to finish this so bad, I'm freaking out that I'm going to lose it. I've been typing since I said I started typing it. YEAH. No special guy needed for the Boss fight, but you sould probably use that awesome new Fire weapon, BOLEAS if you got it. If you have Warren or Saradin in there, they'll drop some nasty Fire on these guys. After the battle, he'll give you his BIZEN Sword. When you come back, head to the boss castle of Cruen. G-g-g-ghost! And The Grail. Man, what an awesome guy you are, you're totally on your way to the best ending. THUMBS UP.





Just one week left after this thing, and then we'll be moving on to SECRET OF MANA! (Tell your friends!)



Good Luck!

Mr_Mustache said:

Just one week left after this thing, and then we'll be moving on to SECRET OF MANA! (Tell your friends!)
Good Luck!

Eh? I thought we were moving to Ogre Battle 64