* * * * * Chrono Trigger - Week 5 * * * * *

(Plain English: Scroll down to the bottom of the "OP" if you're lagging behind for previous weeks)


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Prologue:
i Okami Club
ii Fire Emblem Club

Epic Center:
01 Ogre Battle
24 Secret of Mana
39 Phantasy Star IV (cont'd)
67 Earthbound (cont'd)
99 Breath of Fire II (cont'd)
110 Paper Mario (cont'd)
123 Golden Sun (cont'd)
136 Chrono Trigger

(ALL VINTAGE EC GAMES ARE CONTINUED IN THEIR OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREADS!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hello, true believers! Welcome to Negative World's newest RPG-centric Club Hub, springing off the heels of the Fire Emblem Club. Way back when, Nintendo Power introduced a monthly walkthrough / in depth Role Play Game section (right around the beefiest SNES RPG era), but since they aren't around anymore to use it, Negative World will bring it out of the ashes, dust it off, and roll with it (two things of note: #1, this is not in reaction to Nintendo Force Magazine at all -- I know that because I thought of it in the shower this morning, so THERE; and #2, I just looked up "Epic Center RPG" on Yahoo, and there is apparently another RPG-based site that has that, ugh. I guess we're looking at a "Ghostbusters" / "Real Ghostbusters" thing now... Whatever..).

For anyone who grew playing SNES RPGs, and were a fan of them, they surely resonated to the point where they still hold office as some of your favorite games of your entire videogame life, systems, generations, and decades later. The NW Epic Center (run primarily by myself, with the aid of some special friends occasionally) will help to expose some of those games that didn't quite get the recognition they deserved, and also to relive some of the greatest games EVER as we play through them again -- together -- and open up a whole new dialogue on these lost treasures.


Next up..



Chrono Trigger is held by many (myself included) as The Greatest RPG of All Time, pun not intended. It is a benchmark title in the genre, and even after 20 years the game is discussed daily and held in high regard, even in the face of juiced-up, HD "masterpieces." Is simpler sometimes better? Sure, but we're not talking "Dragon Warrior" simple here; we're talking 16-bit perfection at its finest. I'm personally a bit worried about pursuing this game once more; it's been a long time since my last jog through it, and I'm afraid I might have the rosiest pair of glasses that any shot of nostalgia could ever produce. We find out later this month, for better or for worse. (C'mon, it's gonna be fine -- we're talking Chrono Trigger here!! THE BEST, JERRY, THE BEST!!)

Sunday, August 30th marks the start of Week 1 (if you prefer to start your own quest AFTER Sunday, like Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, thats fine!). Golden Sun ran 6 Weeks. GameDadGrant will be our DUNGEON MASTER for this one, and we figure the playthrough to run about the same length. Less than two months. I'm told the total quest should last you between 20 and 30 hours.


See ya soon!!


CHRONO TRIGGER

Dungeon Master: GameDadGrant

You Did It! Chrono Trigger Complete:
VofEscaflowne
Scrawnton
Mop it up
Ludist210


Week 4 Complete:
GameDadGrant
mrbiggsly
DapperDave

Week 3 Complete:
Mr_Mustache (and Mrs_Mustache!)

Week 2 Complete:
Smerd
Dark weres
warerare
sirmastersephiroth

Week 1 Complete:
Anand

Triggermen:
HammerLord
Koovaps

Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5

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URL to share (right click and copy)

Finished up Shangrila. Pretty much what I expected, as it was nothing like a broom closet.

5N bonus for anyone who gets this reference.

Now that my Wii has been confirmed as NOT DEAD, I put some time into Ogre Battle last night and cleared Scene 3. Movin' along!

@GameDadGrant

Hooray! Its a Quest-Enix miracle!

It might be best to refer to hidden cities in terms of directions from non-hidden cities. I scanned the map three times on map 9 looking for Malden, before figuring out that Malden itself was a hidden city! Finally completed it.

Map 9 by the way, is a scenario in which you don't want to cheap out on deployment. With 10 hidden cities and temples, you're going to have to basically lock the enemy in and around their home base if you want to explore and make an income, and win this one without playing city-tennis. I must've lost 50% of my reputation metre on this map alone. I found the Brunhild, but I just hope my high-CHA high-ALI teams can make that back before I lose a chance at the canonical ending.

I also really need to make my evil teams more overpowered, so that they can absolutely DESTROY troublesome members of certain units before sending in the appropriately aligned team to finish them off.

Looking back, much of my problem was probably not buying enough of those boots.

I'm still in Fire Emblem land (slow and steady wins the race lol). This game club (and club game) caught my interest but I knew there was no way in hell I could take it on atm. Just came here to crash the party and get some general impressions thus far. What you like, what you don't like, how it compares to other SRPGs. Feel free to share or tell me GTFO.

@Dark Weres

Is Map 9 Kastolation Sea? Yeah, that is a hidden city monster.

Oh man, you got Brunhild?! You'll be fine (YOU SHOULD BE FINE); that is a HUGE piece of doing stuff. Congratulations!

I bought about 30 boots then. I use them CONSTANTLY. Need a reinforcement? About to lose a town? BOOTS!

@vids

I love the game. YMMV as everyone else's does, too..

Map 10 started out simply enough, I sent out a couple of troops to liberate the nearby areas, brought out the overpowered evil groups to defend them, found a Benkay's Glaive soon after liberating the temple, and gave it to my witch group's front-line Golem. I send Destin and a flying high alignment unit to liberate the city-temple-city area NNW of where you start, and an enemy swoops right between them to take the city we just liberated, knocking aside the guards like they were nothing. No time for fights, gotta ruin your reputation some more! Yeah no, I reset there.

On the GOOD run, I had two cleric units and two undead units run out and Liberate the temple near the enemy base, while other flying troops liberated the towns and temples in between. I kept a supposed-to-be-evil group near the base to weaken enemy troupes while the weaker unit behind him was supposed to finish them off, but the weaker troupe was never able to catch the weakened enemies before they fled to HQ and revived. I want Lyon's Dragons to be high-aligned, dammit! Quit running away!

Norn's unit is set to "Strong," so you can send back-row ghosts and front-row skeletons set to "leader" against her.

I may have ruined my save. Everyone who can fight is under-levelled, so they're maxing out on their alignment and my reputation is in the gutter. I never saw Posha during my run of this map. I have a party of a shaman leading two cockatrices and one of them somehow lowered his alignment to zero. I want Lyon's Dragons to become Silver/Gold/Platinum, but all the enemies seem to be able to out run him if they aren't good aligned. These WINGED DRAGONS can't seem to catch up to them. Argh.

I'm going to need some tips on re-alignmenting my troups to their appropriate alignments. Or maybe it's time for that massive delete-recruit-rearrange operation.

I have sort of a half-hearted second-file at the end of week 1, just in case this one really does turn out to be ruined. On that one, I managed to roll a Destin with IceCloud and Banish, THREE cleric groups, and I rearranged Warren's and the Beastmen's groups to bring the wizards together, and the beastmen with his beasts. Also, one Samurai.

@Dark Weres

What kind of dragons are they now? Still green? I made 'em Red right off the bad. Tough to have those, you gotta be middle of the pack. Beast Men and Dragons are a hard group to work with.

Alright, managing ALI.. I know its a ways off, but in Chapter 13, I was able to completely right TWO of my characters, on opposite poles. I had Gilbert up around 79 (wanted him around 45-50), so I started mauling underleveled Clerics (but took a CHA hit, too, be careful), and Lyon was down around 15 ALI, and got him up a little higher, but not completely out of the gutter. He's at 35-40 right now, but I wanted him around 50.

Oh geez, don't go all the way back to Week 1. If you messed something up, you messed something up. It happens. I've played this game a bunch, and this is the first time I'm doing all this stuff.

Did you finish 10? Is there no way to raise your Rep?

EDIT- And were you able to Recruit Norn?

another quick question: I was thinking about whether I should use items like "Moonbeam" to delay collecting day-1 tributes until I've gotten as many cities as possible. If you use a moonbeam on the morning of Day 2, will it "rewind" to day 1's night, or "fast-forward" to Day 2's night, for the purpose of how much time you spend collecting money on a particular map?

The dragons are still green, their alignment's climbing slowly. I figure once they go silver, I can then work on lowering Lyon's alignment so he can go Beastmaster/Dragoner, and then raise the dragon's alignments so they can go Gold/Platinum, and just keep it a high alignment group from there on out. And no, Norn died on map 10. I was able to complete it, thankfully.

One of my big problems with playing this series is that I never spend enough money. I've got about 700'000 Goth stored up right now. In other games, you hoard money so that you can buy the expensive permanent-stat-boost items, or you end up amassing a huge war chest because item-use is eventually rendered obsolete by the amount and variety of skills and magic you get. In Ogre Battle, that is definitely not the case.

Switching between the new file and the old one might be helping me figure out how to salvage the old file, if I still may. the new file has my characters arranged so that even numbered troupes are low-aligned, and odd-numbered ones are high-aligned. Most maps seem to allow for the strategy of sending the high level baddies right near the enemy base to distract, weaken, and annihilate most of their forces while the low-level goodies wander the map liberating towns and temples, and recruiting neutrals while playing the maps events out. Then, after collecting a day or two worth of tributes, send all the low-level goodies on a blitz against the boss to level up against his underlings until they match his level, and finally using the leader tactic and/or a card or two to weaken them enough for the soldiers to finish them off and end the map, hopefully before the locals get impatient.

@Dark Weres

Ehh, I don't think that really matters. You can usually wait around for two more days or so before you even attack the boss to just collect a paycheck. No need to worry about that there. You'd want to use a Moonbeam to give your Low ALI units better power, and more overtly, to allow a Werewolf/Tigerman to assume their true form! If you're worried about spending "too long," just watch the Rep meter when the day switches. I think you're good until about Day 8 or something. Really, you're cool. (Of course, the longer you stay, the lower your bonus, but you're getting solid dough either way, so yeah.)

Norn didn't say anything afterwards? Eh, it happens. She's part of your ultimate huge ending, so don't stress yourself out over it. Just do what you can, bro.

I've spent a ton of money on Revies, Heals, All Heals, Boots, etc. I think I'm using A LOT more items now than I was before. I bought some Charms, too (which I think you're yet to see) which allow you to downright STEAL characters from an opposining unit. The Mrs_ and I held out for Tiamats! You can buy Jokers which give you a free Tarot card whenever you want, and there are some VERY EXPENSIVE Potions you can buy later which ARE permanent.

Haha, I don't go into Unit Alignment as you did so much, but I do have ones that I always do. Lord is always #1, of course. Lans is 2, Warren is 3, Beatman + dogs is 4. Canopus is always 10, Gilbert is always 11. And most maps do allow that, sure, but you gotta watch out for rogue units sometimes, especially on those long stages where they can go AROUND land (ie: a water stage) and pop up on your front door. The Mrs_ is playing right now, and we were tracking a wizard. He disappeared, and has not reappeared. We have no idea what happened to him. Is she seconds away from losing the map? Who knows!

I think maybe I'll try streaming the Valley of Kastro tonight, just to see if I can get some advice while I play, and of course, to get back in the practice of live streaming.

Live streaming Ogre Battle, Valley of Kastro

I'll try embedding it here.

@Dark Weres

Are you playing right now?! I can't see anything. Also, I'm off to bed! My stupid sleep schedule got messed up, so now its more ""normal,"" messing up my standard day on BOTH sides. AWFUL.

Anyway, Kastro; I remember the guys splitting the stage, some on top, some through the middle. Not a ton of action on the bottom. Just get your Rep back up before you get to one of those Temples! Have you recovered at all?


Keep fighting the good fight, brother! I dig your tenacity!

@Mr_Mustache
I got through map 11 on the stream. The boss, a level 16 surrounded by level 11s, all low-align, I ended up wearing down using a unit of two ghosts in front, three wizards in back. At that point I was like "They're deliberately trying to mess up my alignment/reputation at this point, so screw trying to find a high-alignment unit under level 11 that can take down a level 16.

EDIT: maybe I'll try using a Google+ hangout instead of a ustream URL next time.

Team Mustache has downed the Kalbi Peninsula. Huzzah! The Ruins await! (with more underleveled guys, eek!)

@Dark Weres

Could've just been my computer. No worries.

I..think you can still have your ALI go up while your CHA can drop. I wouldn't worry about it TOO much. Its early yet!
We're having some troubles at the stage we're on now. If you're following VERBATIM (minus your Norn deal), save some 10's for Week 5 on the Kalbi Peninsula.

Team Mustache up through 15 (but I swore it said 16...).

@Dark Weres

It isn't that hard, really; just look for those matchups! Clerics/Knights, send your Wizards/Hellhounds. Beastmen/WildMen? Send your Samurais/Valykyries! You'll get the hang of it. Sometimes in Ogre Battle, everything IS black & white!

SO! Is everybody pumped for Week 6!? We'll be finishing up Week 5 tonight.

WEEK 6

-Scene 17: White Nights: Tundra - Hidden Cities / Temples: 1 - Hidden Treasure: 7
-Scene GA: Angel: Gamma: Antanjyl - Hidden Cities / Temples: 12 - Treasure: 2
-Scene 18: The Empire: Fort Alamoot - Hidden Cities / Temples: 4 - Treasure: 4
-Scene DE: The Dragon Rider: Delta: Shiguld - Hidden Cities / Temples: 3 - Treasure: 3


General Tips and things to remember:
-Guys are getting tougher, and you're probably all filled up. Remember that you can have some special characters recruit specific guys. If you still haven't figured this out (amidst my help!), you gotta have clear room in the unit you're trying to recruit into.
-If you've got guys lagging behind, you can probably dump them. If you're like "no way, I need that class!," check out what your guys can recruit when they're in town; chances are they can get you a unit, and he'll be set up better than the guy you dropped.
-Keep pluggin' away..


Spoilers / handholding, of course..
Tips for Scene 17: Tundra: Bring your snowboots again! (Muses, Ice Giants, Silver/Gold/Platinum Dragons, etc.) and plenty to keep warm (Red Dragons, Fire Weapons, etc.) 15 Towns to keep track of here, woo hoo! Alrighty, town of Mohnso gives you a BEAST which is a free character, and it could be ANYTHING..but probably a Fairie. Let us know what you get! Hidden stuff; Temple on the lower righthand side in the greenery, and treasure is 1) W of Shackleton on the larger island, 2) due S of Herald Coast on the middle peninsula, 3) W of Ruskayah over the mountains, 4) N of Intahi on the same island, 5) N of Kotz in the mountains, 6) NW of Nansen, closer to the temple, and 7) NW of Valhalla on the upper part of the island. After you take care of everyone, bring Yushis (if you got her) to take on Mizal. Family Reunion, awesome! Afterwards, return to Valhalla for a free item depending on your Rep.
Tips for Scene GA: Antanjyl: What a neat board! Everything is hidden, and its allllll up North! Geez, this is hard to even point you there.. Either a) look for them yourself; start around the grass/snow fringe and find 12, or b) buy a CRYSTAL which will show you the location of a hidden city. Two Temples are in the grass, everything else is in the snow area. Treasure is hidden on the piece of land beneath your base where it kinda juts out to the left a little bit, and in the clearing on the landmass beneath the enemy base. Phew! Alright, once you're done with all that stuff (lengthy) it is time to fight the evil Galf. What a bad dude. If your Rep is in the dumper...you'll have a chance to recruit him, but you'll throw away a good ending, and head for bad (evil bad) ending. If you wish to do this, you must obviously have BRUNHILD (you had it to get here), and it needs to be UNEQUIPPED in your inventory, and your Lord's ALI has to be below 30. Again, Rep should be rock bottom. If you have all that stuff, and you want him to join, bring him aboard. If not, take him out; and why not use one of those Sky Knights who put him away so long ago? They have nothing special to do.. Afterwards, return to Yaunde to get a CHEST (sell it!). If you have a low rep but did NOT get Galf, head to Gibbot for a FOULTOME (sell it!). If you DID get Galf, head to Powant Noal, for a pile of S (use it!). If you're feeling saucy, head over to Oshong for some super secret information..
Tips for Scene 18: Fort Allamoot; Big map here, but we're near the end of the game..pretty much! For our Low Rep friends out there, finally something exciting to do! High Rep people will find this as "just another stage," but our Low Reppers have a solid fetch quest to go on. First off, did you keep a TOME at all? If you didn't, you can get another one here. Alright, reading this deal..it seems...annoying but here goes. Gotta visit places in a certain order, should you accept the challenge, here we go: 1) Avoid Stun Creek, Laseive, Esquintora, Plinsport, & Matagalp. 2) beat all the guys, 3) in this order, liberate Matagalp, Plinsport, Esquintora, Laseive (don't buy the Fur!), & Stun Creek, 4a) if you don't have a Tome, head to Heskalansa (in the mountains E of Minach Torahn, and N of Matagalp where you can buy one for 100K or 4b) a hidden Temple SE of Plinsport along the water where you can slaughter Monks for free and a huge Rep hit. Schwew! 5) Return to towns in this order: Stun Creek, Laseive, Esquintora, Plinsport, & Matagalp, and that should end you with The Saga. And then you sell it and you're like "but I don't need money." Ah well.. Other hidden stuff: Treasure NE of Belmoban in the mountains, NE of the Temple NE of Belmoban, on the longish landmass, the City of Pirellel is in the sand due W of Belmoban (and you also get a FRAGMENT - save it for now), a Temple is in the sand S of the Boss Base, a Chaos Gate is on the island thing next to that. If you missed Heskalansa and the other temple, re-read this section. Moving on-- Oh, right! The Boss! These guys hit hard, and one of their attacks has enough smite to drop one of your guys instantly. That news makes me shy away from using my Lord. Wouldn't that just stink all over? Use a Magician to soften 'em up (or a bunch of cards..). After you've finished this thing, return to Killing Abal, Esquintora, and Tekshigahve to pick up items at each of these locations. Most of them are depending on Rep, so if you don't get one, don't sweat it. You can sell these for cash. Return to Heskelansa and sell your Star FRAGMENT for 200K. Nice!
Tips for Scene DE: Ruined City / Shiguld; another sky place, and I believe the last special one we'll hit. Everything else is mandatory! Alright, special items are available to you at each of the Temples exposed to the naked eye when you start, and ALI POT and a HP POT. Use this accordingly! --If you're reading this now, and you're like "man, too much reading!," think about all the crap that I've gotta write! Jeepers.. Anyways, treasure is on the nub W of Kalishinpi and the two nubs SW and SE of Alshabi. Cities are and NE island, below the Boss Base near the mountains, and a Temple is in the mountains W of Dallu Sarram. Ok... You may run into Toad in Kalishinpi asking about an item. You can get this at Dallu Sarram for free, and bring it back then for Goth..or you can wait until after the stage for and return to Dallu Sarram for an UNDEAD Ring. When you're all set, take on Fogel (the final Sky Knight and the strongest). If you best him, he may offer to join you (70+ ALI for your Lord, solid Rep, HEROSTAR, etc.); if he does NOT join you, you can get his weapon, ZEPYULOS, which is one of the pieces to this mysterious FIRECREST puzzle that nobody has ever figured out in the history of the internet. Some say it is just a clue to give you a "ZELDA" type deal in Legend of Zelda (if you input your name as "FIRESEAL" in Ogre Battle, you play a crazy advanced stage with nutrageous units....but there is rumor that you can still reach that special stage in YOUR game with this FIRESEAL. If Fogel joins you, you can NOT get the sword, and therefore can NOT get the FIRESEAL. Its all very confusing..so just take Fogel. Or make two files. Whatever.). After all that madness is over, return to Bujunbulla for a BOX to sell, Mupan for a Sentoul DEMON (remember the dude in Diaspola!) Are you confused? I'm extremely confused and I have a much better grasp of it than you do.

Do you like in games when there are unproven rumors or wild goose chases? I always liked the General Leo mythology in Final Fantasy III, and how people claim to have seen things, but this FIRESEAL deal is confusing as S. To complicate matters, the instruction booklet SHOWS on the stage tree that "Dragon's Haven" branches right off of this thing. If you are some magic guy, and you find this place, alert me immediately on the Batphone. You've done what no one else has. Anyway, neat thing to try, but I'm sure there are other folks much more obsessed about this deal than I am that have come up short. So yeah; who knows?


Good Luck!

Okay, I haven't touched the game for a bit, but I haven't really played much of anything lately. I did pick up Fire Emblem, but barely sank an hour into it. That said, I finally scrounged up a stupid composite cord for my Wii (which I have been killing myself looking for, seeing as how I have 3 Wiis in my house) so I can hopefully play on a semi- more regular basis. I was normally on my living room TV with component cables, but I now have the lay in bed and play option. Here's to hoping I actually play this week.

Dropped Antalia, worked on new teams, about to tackle Tundra!

@Koovaps

Yeah man, hop to it! We're crushin' it over here!