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Is Miyamoto interfering too much with other teams' games? [roundtable]
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Those who've been following Nintendo development lately know that Shigeru Miyamoto tends to "upend the tea table" at times. But for all the guy's solid contributions to Nintendo, a few of his recent interferences have left me scratching my head. It seems to have started with Super Mario Galaxy 2. Rosalina's storybook in the original Galaxy was an element that a lot of players enjoyed (even if it would've been nice to be able to skip it), and while SMG2 gets to the action in a quicker way, many feel that some of the charm is lost when that extra bit of atmosphere/backstory is missing. As it turns out, Miyamoto vetoed the idea of more story in Galaxy 2. A snippet: But does he really agree with his boss, or has Koizumi just been overruled? In an interview with Wired.com in 2007, Koizumi said that he’s been trying to sneak bits of story into Mario and Zelda games for his entire career at Nintendo, even as Miyamoto has been trying to keep them out.
I told Miyamoto about what Koizumi had said, and he looked slightly taken aback.
“He said that?”
“Yes.”
“Well, I put a stop to that at the beginning, this time,” he said, and for emphasis punched the air with his fist.Super Mario Galaxy's backstory added some development to Rosalina, but was it necessary? Shiggy says no.Now, I realize that story in Mario is a bit of a split subject, as many players feel SMG2's focus on platforming led to an ultimately stronger game that had better pacing. But it wasn't until a few months later where another platformer released that had some Miyamoto interference... After simply running back and forth for ten minutes and watching the animations of Donkey Kong turning around, Shigeru Miyamoto told Retro that it seemed like Donkey Kong was "blowing" when he created dust clouds. The "blow" mechanic used in Donkey Kong Country Returns was born from this off-handed remark.As it turns out, Miyamoto told Retro to put the blowing mechanic into Donkey Kong Country Returns. As much as I loved the game, I think the blowing was far too stop-and-go and unnecessary when you already had a much more visceral (and DK-ish) move with the ground slap. Eh.The main reason for this thread, though, is the recent talk of Miyamoto's involvement with Paper Mario: Sticker Star. From the latest Iwata Asks... Iwata: Miyamoto-san really persevered with Paper Mario this time. Exactly what was he particular about?
Tanabe: Aside from wanting us to change the atmosphere a lot, there were two main things that Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project—"It's fine without a story, so do we really need one?" and "As much as possible, complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world.
Iwata: That's a difficult task. In some ways that would be the exact opposite direction from recent games in the series.And now the consistently hilarious Bowser has no lines at all.Now, I know the guy created Mario, but the fact that he's poking his way into second party titles--RPGs, no less--and imposing some major rules like "No original characters" (PMSS has only a single one) and "Do we really need a story?" seems awfully invasive and myopic. On a side note, Yokota (Galaxy's outstanding composer) wanted to fully orchestrate the OoT 3D soundtrack, and Kondo told him to simply make it sound identical to the N64 version. So what do you guys think? Has Miyamoto gone mad with power? Is the rigid conservatism of Nintendo damaging the quality of its games? URL to share (right click and copy)
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11/29/12, 18:56 Edited: 11/29/12, 18:59
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Zero said:@V_s Because Oblivion (and I assume Skyrim) are like the anti-Zelda. Could you elaborate on this a bit? Because I don't see enough differences between the two for that statement to make sense to me (unless Oblivion was a lot different from Skyrim, as I've played the latter but not the former). Zero said:Minish Cap was ok, but in no way could it be viewed as an excellent follow-up to Link to the Past. I mean as far as, people wanting Link to the Past and then some. I disagree. TMC is my favorite Zelda game of the entire series. For all intents and purposes, it was to me "ALttP and then some". Better combat, better characters, better story, more sidequests, more unique weapons and items (some of them optional), an overworld of similar feel that is more defined... The only step back from ALttP was its length/number of dungeons. Back to Miyamoto though, I forget who mentioned it previously, but we really haven't seen how a game would turn out if Miyamoto was given the choice to interfere and didn't (at least as far as I'm aware). So I'd like to see that happen to see what the finished product looks like. It'd go a long way towards revealing whether Miyamoto's interferences are more helpful or hindering towards these games. |
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Zelda focuses on a tight, specific design where details matter. Every area has a specific purpose, every enemy has a specific reason for existing, every item has specific uses, etc. The scope is big, but only big enough that it can maintain these point to point details.
Oblivion focused on huge, sprawling design where the details are, for the most part, incidental. That's how it felt to me, anyway. It's pretty impressive from a macro view, but once you scale down to any specific thing you're doing well... ug. |
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Minish Cap is pretty good -- definitely a big improvement over the Oracle games -- but I still think it pales in comparison to A Link to the Past and Link's Awakening. One of the things I hate about the game is the returning characters, like Malon, Beedle, Dampé, Tingle, etc. It feels like the game lacks its own identity at times, or like the developers were lazy or something. I think this issue was even more prevalent in the Oracle games, but it still takes me out of the experience in Minish Cap too.
I also wasn't a huge fan of the Kinstone fusion stuff. I think it could have been implemented better. It seems like it was intended to give characters more depth, but it didn't work for me -- it just seemed very fetch quest-y. And I think the overworld feels too... segmented? Some of the bosses were boring too -- who wants to fight a giant chuchu?
That's not to say the game doesn't do some great things, because it does -- I think that the sword upgrades were well done, and there were a lot of secrets and stuff to find in the overworld. It's got a lot of original ideas too, which makes me feel bad saying that it doesn't have its own identity, because clearly it was trying. But at times it just doesn't work for me. I don't hate the game by any means, but I feel like the game is full of highs and lows, and while some of the highs are very, very good, the lows bring it down quite a bit for me.
As much as I have these complaints, I'd much rather see a new Zelda in the vein of Minish Cap than one like Spirit Tracks.
For me though, the high points of the series are Majora's Mask and Link's Awakening. I also absolutely adore Wind Waker above any other Zelda, but I have no problem admitting that that game has its own issues that I'm willing to overlook because other elements are more important to me. |
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rebonack said:Minish Cap is pretty good...One of the things I hate about the game is the returning characters, like Malon, Beedle, Dampé, Tingle, etc. It feels like the game lacks its own identity at times, or like the developers were lazy or something. But you're a fan of Majora's Mask! That game is all about re-using characters! I dunno, Minish Cap felt like an SNES game, which would have been a great follow-up to A Link To The Past. (even though Link's Awakening did a better job at being a "sequel" IMO) |
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