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Does the Wii U feel progressive to you? [roundtable]
 
Does the Wii U feel like the future of gaming? Or at least a step forward? GE's Youtube link got me ponderin'.

Although the graphics don't seem to have advanced very far beyond 360/PS3, I personally think that it does feel 'next-gen', due to Miiverse, the general Gamepad implementation, and fresh, novel games like Luigi's Ghost Mansion. I'm honestly not sure whether a Watch Dogs demo-level presentational enhancement alone would trigger that sensation for me.

I'll admit that it could be possible that I'm conflating novelty and progress here, but who cares, really? Even if the movement ends up somewhat lateral, like with motion control on the Wii, I NEED that movement to stay engaged with gaming. Shooting people in increasingly more realistic environments doesn't do it for me anymore. IMO

Hmm, now I wanna do a roundtable about which games of the last generation felt truly new and interesting...

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Posted: 11/28/12, 17:32:37  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 17:34:00
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Yes. The Gamepad is new and different, yet still familiar to anyone who has used a DS before. The Miiverse is just awesome. TVii seems like a great idea for combining the media services. Really the only knock I can see being put on it is that it's not going to be as powerful graphically as the next Xbox and Playstation, but I still believe those expecting a massive improvement in graphics there are setting themselves up for a disappointment.
Posted: 11/28/12, 20:06:47
I think consoles coming with their own wireless screen is a new standard. I always thought it be great for interface and local multiplayer, and it really is.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:10:01
I don't have a Wii U yet, though I will sometime around when Pikmin 3 comes out, however I'm going to point out the obvious here.

I haven't used Miiverse, however if it is as amazing as people here claim it is, Microsoft will just add a similar feature to Live and launch with superior hardware and basically do the same thing they did with Kinect, ie eliminate any competitive advantage Nintendo has and release it on vastly superior hardware.

Just saying. I won't be buying the next Xbox and I find myself in general giving less and less of a shit about consoles in general outside of the Nintendo made, Nintendo exclusive stuff however it's a fact this is what the end product will be.


Anand said:
@GelatinousEncore
Honestly, I don't think that the graphics will go too much farther than 360/PS3...


You are going to be wrong, factually speaking. People have been saying this since the SNES days and it's never once come true. The first truly next gen game that comes out is going to blow the ever living shit out of anything on the PS3/Xbox from a technical standpoint. How can you make a statement like this and believe it, with zero historical precedence behind what you are saying and Epic having for two years now shown us EXACTLY what the baseline for the next gen will be? It makes no sense.

You do realize the 360 is basically great PC tech from around 2004, right? You don't think that in a decade, given how fast technology moves in general, something drastically superior will come out? Really? What did your cell phone look like in 2004? Did you look at whatever shitty flip phone you had in your hand at the time and go "it will never get better than this... EVAR.". God I hope not.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:27:30  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:34:07
Anand said:
Even if the movement ends up somewhat lateral, like with motion control on the Wii, I NEED that movement to stay engaged with gaming.

Agreed! I love all of these weird and wacky gimmicks! Although I don't know that I agree that motion controls had to be lateral, they could have been a huge step forward, if they were embraced more.

With the Wii U though, outside of asymmetrical multiplayer, I'm not sure that I quite see the core benefits to gameplay itself yet. I think they will be there, but so far a lot of what I'm playing is stuff that doesn't really need a fancy new controller.

What I do see, and honestly didn't expect to, however, is the HUGE benefit to having the screened controller. I've honestly done like 80% of my Wii U gaming on the controller. Sometimes I turn the TV on, and barely glance at it. Other times I just leave it off, because why bother? Pretty much every night now (and some mornings, though I'm more lazy mornings) I'm laying in bed and it's like hey, why not pop in and check Miivers / play a bit of X / etc. quick? I don't even have to get up!

I can play it from bed. I can play it in the bathroom (ew!) I can play it while my brother or my cousin uses the TV. It's tough to imagine going back to being tethered to a TV. Sadly I cannot play it downstairs, even though I tried playing it from the room right below mine, which would have made cooking dinner more enjoyable (right now I tend to sit down there and sit online / play 3DS in between cooking... stuff, would have been nice to get the Wii U into that mix.) Really though, if I wanted to, I could just bring the system down and plug it into a socket, don't even need a TV.

We were right! OH GOD, WE WERE RIGHT!!!


I wonder if it will ultimately be satisfying playing in such a lazy way though. I think I will miss out on a lot of the immersion if I don't use a big fancy TV sometimes. But honestly I only feel that need with the bigger stuff, like... Mario, Metroid, Zelda? Or maybe some of these 3rd party games. I guess once I have more retail games made with uber pretty graphixxx I will want to play on the TV a bit more. And multiplayer, of course...

@Oldmanwinter There is literally no way that Microsoft can duplicate Miiverse the way it exists now. It's like saying that you could put a Disney World clone in the middle of Afghanistan and expect the same experience.

Whether they would really want to duplicate the experience though, that's another question. They could do a Microsoft-style take on it but tailor it more to their fanbase. In which case it would be something different. It really would.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:29:05  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:37:32
@Oldmanwinter
I'm not really sure that Miiverse-like functionality really fits with MS's userbase and image. Unless they limited it to the Family Gold subscriptions or did a HELL of a lot of moderating. And I honestly think that people might get sick of paying a subscription for basic features next gen.

@Zero
Yeah, I'm not saying that motion control HAD to be lateral. That's just the way it turned out. Maybe the Wii U will have a similarly disappointing amount of games that truly take advantage of its wackiness. But it'll be an interesting ride, regardless.

Also, the wiring would be annoying, but putting the Wii U downstairs and playing it from your room might work. I think that most signals have an easier time transmitting upward than downward. Easy to test, anyway.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:31:18  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:35:22
Anand said:
@Oldmanwinter
I'm not really sure that Miiverse-like functionality really fits with MS's userbase and image. Unless they limited it to the Family Gold subscriptions or did a HELL of a lot of moderating. And I honestly think that people might get sick of paying a subscription for basic features next gen.


I'm sure you said the same thing about Kinect. And this board, which is a Nintendo fan site, has had multiple threads of people bitching about the moderation. That most likely wouldn't exist on a Microsoft platform. Further while I agree that Live is a complete waste of money, especially if you have a job and can afford a PC that can run current gen games, people aren't paying for basic features, they are paying for the community. Microsoft knows this, it's why they pay for timed exclusives on huge AAA multiplayer games. It's to keep people on the service, and it works, and will probably continue to work.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:36:52
Oldmanwinter said:
And this board, which is a Nintendo fan site, has had multiple threads of people bitching about the moderation. That most likely wouldn't exist on a Microsoft platform.

Exactly, which is why it wouldn't be the same thing. It would have like zero chance of cracking into the larger family / kid market. You might as well say that Microsoft online is the same thing as Nintendo online, ignoring that you are playing Halo online instead of playing Mario Kart online. It's a different experience, and someone who wants to play Mario Kart online isn't going to say playing Halo online elsewhere is the same thing.

Speaking of Kinect, what did it actually do in the end? It sold a bunch of consoles for awhile, but did it sell games? I wonder where Microsoft is going to take it next.

As for Live, I think it will be interesting to see what happens next generation. Microsoft came into this generation with a clear advantage for Live... PS2 online was crap and Nintendo online didn't really exist. So of course anyone who cared about online bought a 360. Now Sony has a competitive online system, and it's free. Nintendo, not quite as competitive, but they're getting there, and they have some of the best selling multiplayer exclusives. Will everyone still go to Live just for the "community"? People abandon communities all the time. Remember Friendster and Myspace? I'm not saying I think this will happen, per se, but I don't think Microsoft will have as easy of a sell next time around. Especially if Sony jumps the gun somehow.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:40:19  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:43:32
@Oldmanwinter
I still don't really believe that Kinect is successful. It seems like an enormous hoax.

And are you saying that moderation wouldn't exist on a Microsoft Miiverse equivalent? Because I can't see how anyone over the age of 12 would want to use the service otherwise. It would become an off-putting, rather than inviting place.

Paying for community is kind of a vague concept. There are a lot of different ways to be part of a community. Live connects players, but it never really felt like I was part of a big family, or something. I think that Microsoft's main edge here is inertia. Most people are on Live, most of their friends play on Live, they want to build up their Gamerscore... But how far can that inertia carry them? Of course, it is possible that timed map pack exclusivity and Halo/Forza/Gears/Fable will be enough to sustain MS current domination, but it's also possible that it won't.

As far as people who mostly use the 360 for its media capabilities, I honestly think they'll get tired of paying extra to get into the club.

EDIT: GAH, Zero already posted the same things!
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:48:38  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:50:12
@Zero


People are going to go to Live for the community on consoles because Microsoft has rigged the system to make sure they do. When most major 3rd party releases have timed exclusives on the Xbox it can go no other way.

Sony is fucked. They always will be until they start paying out the ass to get CoD or whatever the next big thing is exclusive for six months. They haven't shown a willingness to do this and we already know the next Bungie game, even though it's 3rd party, is already going as a timed exclusive to Microsoft.

Nintendo has a better chance, even though they are just now building their online base, than anyone and it's because of the games. I've said this for years, and we will finally see if it comes true. You make Mario Kart and Smash and Mario Party with seamless online integration and you are going to see a fuckton of people get on board. It's inevitable, these are some of the most beloved games on the market, anyone with internet and even a slight affinity for Nintendo games is going to flood Nintendo's online network to play Mario Kart, assuming Nintendo doesn't fuck up the integration part which I really dont think will happen this time.

And as to your "speaking of Kinect" argument, Microsoft did exactly what they wanted to. They completely nullified Nintendo's competitive advantage in the motion control department. If they hadn't you wouldn't have the Wii U tablet, that was borne out of the realization that motion controls were no longer novel and they needed something new. Also it's Microsoft, I have no idea Kinect 2 will somehow integrate with the console in a much more compelling way.
Posted: 11/28/12, 22:52:11  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 22:54:11
If PS720 doesn't copy the gamepad too then it can't do miiverse. Miiverse has handwritten posts.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:00:25
Compelling for whom? Kinect integration has already kind of hurt the 360 UI. If MS focused too much on Kinect, they might scare off of their previous fanbase. (Not that they would care if their new audience were bigger.)

Oldmanwinter said:

Anand said:
@GelatinousEncore
Honestly, I don't think that the graphics will go too much farther than 360/PS3...
You are going to be wrong, factually speaking. People have been saying this since the SNES days and it's never once come true. The first truly next gen game that comes out is going to blow the ever living shit out of anything on the PS3/Xbox from a technical standpoint. How can you make a statement like this and believe it, with zero historical precedence behind what you are saying and Epic having for two years now shown us EXACTLY what the baseline for the next gen will be? It makes no sense.

You do realize the 360 is basically great PC tech from around 2004, right? You don't think that in a decade, given how fast technology moves in general, something drastically superior will come out? Really? What did your cell phone look like in 2004? Did you look at whatever shitty flip phone you had in your hand at the time and go "it will never get better than this... EVAR.". God I hope not.
Uh... I was only referring to the Wii U. Sorry to wind you up for nothing!

@Renjaku
Smartglass!

...


And the Vita!!
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:01:22  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 23:03:11
Hm. My experience with the Wii U is very limited, but my initial feelings are "no, this doesn't feel progressive."
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:01:49
"Most" major 3rd party releases don't have timed exclusives though, where are you getting that from? Unless you mean timed exclusive DLC or something. Otherwise Sony tends to get the games at the same time, for the most part.

I don't think Microsoft really nullified motion controls, I think Nintendo not having many games that did anything with it nullified it. The novelty was wearing off with or without Microsoft, and by wearing off, I mean that, as much as I wish things were otherwise, it never really had much support to begin with. But motion controls are far from done, they're kind of still at the core of things for Nintendo. A lot of Nintendo Land games use motion controls.

@GameDadGrant Come on Grant, you of all people should see the appeal of a console that you can play (around the house um... I mean, within a few rooms, anyway) like a handheld!
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:03:04  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 23:04:11
Oldmanwinter said:
I haven't used Miiverse, however if it is as amazing as people here claim it is, Microsoft will just add a similar feature to Live and launch with superior hardware and basically do the same thing they did with Kinect, ie eliminate any competitive advantage Nintendo has and release it on vastly superior hardware.
So you agree the Wii U is progressive, then.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:22:03
@Zero

Hm, I guess. For some games. I dunno. Like I said, my experience with the Wii U has been limited.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:22:41
Guillaume said:
Oldmanwinter said:
I haven't used Miiverse, however if it is as amazing as people here claim it is, Microsoft will just add a similar feature to Live and launch with superior hardware and basically do the same thing they did with Kinect, ie eliminate any competitive advantage Nintendo has and release it on vastly superior hardware.
So you agree the Wii U is progressive, then.


Sure, I never said otherwise. It's obviously new technology for a console and offers features that have never been seen before. I was simply pointing out that if Miiverse is the major draw, it doesn't seem that that difficult of a product to replicate.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:24:37
@Oldmanwinter

So? No one so far has implemented anything of its magnitude that works as well as it does. It's progressive. We've answered the question.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:34:40
@Guillaume
Well, he hasn't experienced it yet, so he can't really speak about how it feels. I don't think he did. He just said that Microsoft will copy Nintendo...which they will. It'll be funny to see the contrast between Miiverse and whatever MS comes up with, haha.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:34:43
Oldmanwinter said:
And as to your "speaking of Kinect" argument, Microsoft did exactly what they wanted to. They completely nullified Nintendo's competitive advantage in the motion control department.
I wouldn't say that. 70 million XBox 360s sold, only 18 million Kinects sold, or about 26% penetration. With Wii, it was 100% penetration. So to me, advantage Nintendo.

Still, at least Microsoft tried to do something different with Kinect from what Nintendo did with the Wii and has succeeded, to a degree. If I bought a 360, I'd get a Kinect with it. I couldn't care less about buying a Move controller for my PS3.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:35:09  - Edited by 
 on: 11/28/12, 23:35:44
Yeah, the argument that Microsoft stole Nintendo's thunder with Kinect is pretty weak. The competitive advantage is the development of good quality games that use your motion control tech. Ball's still in Nintendo's court.
Posted: 11/28/12, 23:37:22
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