@anon_mastermind No it doesn't, because the precision is up to you and the turning is up to you. It just adds more options. And frankly, I'd DIE for a way to actually be able to follow enemies with a smooth turning as opposed to having one "quick" turn.

I don't really understand what you're trying to tell me here, that I wouldn't like this better? I've played games that have pretty much exactly what I'm describing and I know I like it better. In fact, what with all the complaints I'm hearing about KIs ground controls, I'll bet most people would like it better. And if they didn't, they would have the option to stick with the current set-up. Everyone wins.

@anon_mastermind
But it doesn't allow for simultaneous aim and camera control, when you're "spinning the globe" you're not aiming and vice-a-versa. IMO the current control scheme works fine on the lower difficulties when there's only a few enemies, you spin until you see your target come whizzing into view, you tap to stop the spinning, take a second to reorient yourself to where the reticule is on the screen now that you've stopped spinning and you're back in aim mode, drag the reticule over the target, and start firing. While that's happening you may be taking fire by one or two more enemies that are behind you or on your flanks but if you keep moving most of those attacks should miss.

When it breaks down and becomes incredibly disorienting is on the higher difficulties when you're facing a ton of enemies at once, you find yourself spinning the globe wildly try to find whose dealing you damage then all of a sudden the camera moves inside you or to some weird angle that only shows a close-up blurry texture because you've been backed into a corner, then all of a sudden you fly up into the air because someone has hit you with a massive attack and now you're in a completely different section of the battlefield once again taking damage from enemies from all sides, the time it takes you to lift up your stylus and start you wild-flick-spinning to see what's behind you you've taken another massive hit and all your seeing on the screen is a close up of the floor texture and some semi-transparent polys that could be your own body or might be an enemy, it's impossible to tell. Finally you're get oriented again and you try to run away but you're not running, you're doing some weird kind of foot-dragging trot that barely propels you forward, oh yeah pressing the analog stick full-forward isn't run, it's trot, you have to "flick" and hold the analog stick in order to run, so you flick... but it doesn't register, dammit, flick again.... damn, okay third times a charm... but.... BAM! You're hit by another devastating attack and you've flown into some more semi-transparent geometry, is it a corner? What's going on? Damn you're dead. Too bad!

BTW, Gui and Anand I do agree with you guys that guys like Sakurai who do things different and make weird-ass games are ultimately a very good thing for the industry, and for all it's faults Kid Icarus does a lot more right that it does wrong and is still a very good game. I just can't help but be a little frustrated that it isn't as good as it could have been (IMO) if the ground combat would have gelled together as well as the flying sections.

@deathly_hallows

Weird... because most of what you just described is really a non-issue for me If possible, I definitely won't throw myself in the middle of the action when I know there's monsters around. Ranged attacks can be used to take out more dangerous threats without having to deal with the "frustrations" of the camera control. But even if I were to find myself in the heat of battle, I've really found it that difficult to control. Just quickly back out, re-evaluate the situation and act accordingly. Plus there's on-screen notifications that will let you know if there's monsters nearby or where they're attacking from so it's not like you have no idea what's hitting you. You can also judge where enemies are based on sound well enough too.

@VofEscaflowne

You haven't played online yet!

The disorientation thing isn't that big of a deal for me so far even during hectic online matches, though. I have had the same problems when things get really frantic in PC and PS3 shooters, to be honest.

And at least online you know others are dealing with the same kind of controls you are, haha.

@Guillaume

I have played online and I posted about it here in this thread! It does get pretty crazy but like you say, it's not worse than what I go through with console shooters.

@VofEscaflowne
Well maybe you're just better at games than me, and I don't mean that sarcastically, Anand will tell you how much I sucked at 'Splosian Man, I could not get the hang of it!

The very scenario I just described happened to me over and over last night when I was trying to beat the 2nd level on 9 intensity, in the room where you first meet up with whatshisname (the Kingdom Hearts looking dude). I was being attacked from all sides and the camera kept failing me over and over (or I kept failing to control the camera correctly). It wasn't fun, it wasn't challenging fun, just super frustrating un-fun.

@deathly_hallows

Have you messed with the control options more to find something that suits you better? You can adjust how the camera spins and how quickly it stops once you spin it. I've found that if you give it more "glide" (I have it set at around 3/4), it makes the camera controls even better than simply adjusting the control sensitivity. I was in a room earlier busting enemies left and right and it didn't matter which direction they were coming from. It takes practice yeah but it works well enough.

@deathly_hallows
You just have to give 'Splosion Man another chance!! It's all about the countdown timer! (*sniff* Only Gui understands my 'Splosion Man love. Gui and Demon Hatefield.)

You know, I definitely wouldn't mind a Circle Pad Pro option, although that might mess up the online balance. How did things shake out in the PS3 games that allowed both Move and Dual Shock online?

As for Sakurai, I can understand why you wouldn't like all of his stuff, but I think his intrinsic weirdness and refusal to hew to traditional genres and control methods is a key part of his development style. That whole deconstruction and reconstruction thing that he mentioned in Iwata Asks. I mean, look at his stuff - Kirby, Meteos, Kirby Air Ride, Smash Bros., Kid Icarus... not a single one plays like other games in the genre (or like any other games, period). Sakurai is an iconoclast of the highest order.

Kid Icarus is probably his version of Halo.

@deathly_hallows The current control method also makes lining up the platforming jumps way tougher than it should be, especially when you are trying to do it quickly in the midst of being attacked from various sides. Whereas the method I describe would make lining up platforming jumps quickly a piece of cake.

Anand said:

Kid Icarus is probably his version of Halo.

I was trying to describe the game to a co-worker who mostly plays "shooters" and I don't think I did a good job of explaining why it's not just a typical 3PS. The ground stuff I mean.

@Zero
I don't see your suggested setup being quick or accurate enough for me. You'd have to be dragging your stylus all over the screen and then I still don't believe it would be as fast as flicking the camera. I don't see which games you are talking about that controlled like this?

@deathly_hallows
All your complaints should go away as you get better at the game. I kind of felt like that at first but already I am getting a better handle and not having too many issues. For example, it should become muscle memory how hard to flick the camera to get to a specific spot. I set the options on stop quickly so I pretty much never have to stop the camera, unless I overspun it.

@anon_mastermind But the flicking would still be there in the method I described! It's just that you could ALSO move by getting near the edge, which is way faster for getting to people just off the screen than flicking and realigning, helps for lining up platforming quickly, following enemies who are on-screen and moving off, etc.

And like I said, you could set the box to "full screen" essentially removing the edge-of-screen turning if you wanted to. So set up like that it would play exactly how it does now set up like that. Exactly.

Again, my method is just what we have plus a lot more options. Not sure how this could possible be bad. Sakurai is usually all about the options.

As for which games controlled like this, it has pretty much been the default control for most stylus-based shooters on the DS. A lot of Wii shooters also work similarly.

Pah, you guys all have it easy! Try being a lefty and playing this game! I've been using stylus controls in my right hand, but it's always felt a little funky because it isn't my dominant hand. I'm not about to get the CPP to use a thumbstick with my right hand, which would be even weirder though.

I agree with anon's sentiment that the stylus controls probably work best the way they are, but also with Zero's that more options means more people are happy.

TriforceBun said:

I agree with anon's sentiment that the stylus controls probably work best the way they are

I'm confused though... what about nothing happening when you get to the end of the screen with your stylus versus turning when you get there could possibly make the nothing happening better? It's basically just dead space right now, why not put it to actual use?

You could still just keep the stylus mainly near the middle if you wanted to, but I guarantee the first time that you are tracking an enemy who is leaving the screen you wouldn't be thinking "hmm, I'll wait till I think he will be about where my quick turn is set to, use quick turn, readjust myself, and then keep shooting him" versus" hmm, I'll start turning now and never lose track of him".

@Zero

I'm in practice mode messing around with my orbs and I guess the idea of moving the stylus that much doesn't appeal to me. I'd rather have it floating in the middle and swipe lightly to turn, rather than recenter the stylus/reticle after chasing an enemy in that manner. But I guess that's more of a preference thing; for as many control options as this game has, it could always use a couple more.

@TriforceBun

That's what you get for being a mutant freak .

@TriforceBun But the way my controls would work, you could adjust the box to whatever size you wanted it to be. So you could still have the majority of aiming take place in a tiny little box, and moving just outside of wherever the edge of that box is... could turn you.

@Zero I think it would be very confusing because it's not the way aiming works in the sky. If you want to aim incoming ennemis in the corner of your screen, you can.

I'll say it, I have no problem whatsoever with the controls. It's all very good & juicy.

So what exactly do the ranged/melee stats mean? I have a bow at 2.5 ranged and when I test it out, it says it does 96.9 damage. This other bow that has 5 stars does only 29.9. What?

Add me to the multiplayer list. I absolutely suck at this point, but oh well. 1891-1222-8504

Love the flying, annoyed by platforming. I say let Sakurai keep doing his awesome thing and just let Miyamoto come in and finesse the controls and nothing else. Would be an awesome collaboration in my book.

@VofEscaflowne
You know I messed with a million different configurations for the camera controls and in the end I went back to the defaults, but the aiming sensitivity I maxxed out...

@Anand
'Splosion Man is too hyperactive to me, makes me feel like I'm having a seizure! Maybe I'm just getting old, I need a game with an even, slow pace, like Guilty Party!!!! Ah... next time.