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Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo 3DS) discussion [game]
 
Mario Kart 7 on the 3DS
8.91/10 from 40 user ratings

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Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo 3DS) Review (9.0)  by  
The game is out. The kart is on the track... time to play folks. Time to burn some rubber!


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12/04/11, 14:41    Edited: 12/08/11, 04:29
 
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Anyway I don't mean to sound so down on the game, I still love Mario Kart as a series, but I definitely think that somewhere along the way the items became too nuts and the items need severe balancing, or at least just open up the options so that players can balance things on their own. I find myself way too frustrated at this game over getting screwed hard by stuff that is next to or actually impossible to avoid. Depending on the course, sometimes you're basically giving up your chance to place well if you get hit by any major item in the entire last lap or so.

Would you guys agree with me that Mario Kart, more than any other multiplayer game, penalizes people in despite of how well they are playing? I guess maybe Mario Party as well with some of the random stars, but at least that is a "board game" where a large level of randomness is to be expected, and it doesn't often purposely screw the people in front outside of tiny stuff like giving the person in last a spin on the wheel near the end or whatever.

I'm not saying that skill doesn't matter, of course it does, and most items can be avoided through skill... but then many others can't be. Blue shells and lightning bolts come to mind (especially when you are in the air over a gap), and even the bullet bill is pretty difficult to avoid consistently because it is so damn huge and moves erratically. I don't remember where exactly in the series the items got so crazy... Double Dash? Although I swear when you got hit with most items in Double Dash you just kind of did a quick little spin but kept a fair amount of momentum, so it wasn't nearly as big of a deal. I honestly feel like more than anything else most races in the newer Mario Kart games ultimately are determined more by the more powerful items like blue shells, lightning bolts, etc. than both the weaker items and the actual racing. I'm not sure if that is good balancing in what purports to be a racing game.

I also feel like, related to this, people (or maybe just me) expect a sense of momentum in their racing games. And Mario Kart races are so erratic that it is tough to feel like you are building any real momentum. It often ends up so stop and go, and that translates into frustration for me. I don't think I'd even mind getting pelted by items so much if you could at least maintain a fair amount of momentum when doing so, instead of like... getting hit, being nearly stopped, and having to SLOWLY work your way back up to being in the race again all the while hoping like hell that no one else hits you before you can get your speed up and get another defensive item. This isn't really what I want out of a racing game.

/end rant

@anon_mastermind True, but sometimes they launch it ASAP. Although I *believe* that even after a blue shell is launched you can jam the breaks and as long as it hasn't caught up to you yet and someone passes you that it will go after them instead. I think I pulled this off a few times, and I don't think the older games worked this way?
12/11/11, 22:59   
Edited: 12/11/11, 23:03
@Zero
That's true about the blue shell. Jam the brakes as soon as you spot it. Unless of course you are way ahead.


About the items in MK7. The blue shell is overpowered as usual, though this is slightly offset by the fact it can hit everyone in the middle of the track. And the fact that you can spot one and drop down to second to avoid it. However, it does seem to be more frequent than even Mario Kart Wii. I think there should be a "grace period" somewhere during the last lap, where blue shell is impossible to get.

The star really got nerfed in Mario Kart 7. It's so bad to get this when in 7th or 8th, unless people are really close by. Infinite mushroom is infinitely better, and bullet bill is about the same as in MK Wii.

The lightning is really powerful, and equalizes the playing field more than ever in MK7. This is one of those items that inevitably leads to clustering of the pack, where anything can happen. It's especially powerful before and during jumps.

Fire flower is an interesting item, and I think it's really well balanced. You get a lot of shots but they make people spin like a banana peel, or not even as bad as that. It's main function is making people lose coins, it seems.

Lucky 7 isn't that bad, since it can totally blow up in your face, or totally be powerful. Dat bomb is dangerous.

Shells, mushrooms and bananas, same old.

Bombs are weird in this game. They bounce around so crazily when I throw them forward that I usually just drop them behind me. I think we could have a lot of crazy fun with a bobomb only race.

Tanooki tail is a fun item, but it only seems to pop up when you're in 1st to 3rd, it would be more fun if I got it in the middle of the pack so I can slap more people around. IT's also tricky to deflect items coming from behind with no rear view mirror.

Now, about the clustering of the pack. I think this is the most "balanced" Mario Kart by far, and although the best players will usually win, you have to race a very clean race all around to place well. Even a good player who makes one mistake can find themselves in 6th place. Missing an item box will screw you over 4 out of 5 times, it's absolutely crucial to get every single one.
The fact that the tracks have so many alternate paths and shortcuts also evens the playing field. The lower your place, the more likely to get an item that allows you to take a shortcut and catch up.

This game is definitely more focused on defensive karting. No matter what place you're in it's usually a better idea to drag your item behind than to use it. You really have to pick your spots to shoot items forward, but thankfully you can pick spots by checking the bottom screen.

Coins are another element I'm still not sure about. In theory coins are a great idea, but in MK7 they don't really give you a big speed boost. You know how I know this? I've done a lot of time trials, and in theory with the coin system ever single lap should be quicker than the last assuming you collect your 10 coins along the way over the first 2 laps. My times are quicker but by around half a second each lap. So collecting coins gives you such a minimal speed boost I am even questioning if it's worth it at all. It looks like the customization unlocks are the real reason to collect coins, for me at least. Oh, and the boost you get from collecting a coin is really negligible.

I'd have to agree that this is the most item-focused Mario Kart in recent memory, but it's hard to be upset about that, because it also has the most polished racing the series has seen. It's an all-inclusive beast of a game.
12/11/11, 23:26   
Edited: 12/11/11, 23:30
But see being the most item heavy kind of instantly makes it the least racing heavy to me, as there is a sort of see-saw balance between the two. I feel like in the original Super Mario Kart you really had to race well to win a race, whereas in the modern games well... sometimes I actually win just by getting the right uber item right at the end and bursting past everyone last second. I love racing, and specifically I love Mario Kart racing but it feels like 50% racing and 50% item usage in the newer games. Which is probably appealing to some people, but considering how damn cheap / impossible to avoid the uber items are, it really minimalizes the overall appeal to me.

I guess the only way to explain what I want is to say that I loved "strategic items" in Mario Kart Wii and feel sad that they took that out as an option in 7. Strategic item races still depended a lot on items, but it wasn't like pure fucking insanity every race and you could get some real momentum going with your racing. Plus it actually felt, well... strategic. Currently the uber items are not only super powerful but, in most cases, way too easy to use effectively... which kind of gimps the other items in comparison. I mean, you're not going to counteract someone's bullet bill with a strategic placement of a banana peel. But with strategic items it once again went back to SMK (SNES) level item balance where its more about skilled placement of banana peels, actually knowing how to hit someone with a green shell, using your single mushroom at just the right place, etc. to get that little edge. Can you guys believe that a single red shell used to be one of the uber items (as well as a star?) Instead of adding more fun items while keeping the same balance, the balance has increasingly shifted to more and more powerful items over time I don't think the result was worth it. I like the scaled back item usage and having the game be more about the racing.

Now, ultimately none of this would matter if Nintendo would just open up the game's options a bit so we could set up which items we want to use like Smash Brothers does. Maybe none of you guys would want to race in my no blue shells / lightning bolts / bullet bills / etc. races anyway, but I'd at least like the option to set some up and see if anyone else would want to play that way with me.

Interesting about the coins, I have kind of been wondering how effective they actually are. For the most part I won't go far out of my best racing line to get them, but I might modify my line a bit to pick a few up.
12/11/11, 23:43   
Edited: 12/11/11, 23:47
Zero said:
Now, ultimately none of this would matter if Nintendo would just open up the game's options a bit so we could set up which items we want to use like Smash Brothers does.

Or how frequently they appear. I'd be amused by the blue shell if it only happened once in a blue moon... it's the fact that it happens 2 times a race that drives me nutty. I don't even want to be in first place most of the time because I know I'm just going to lose it and possibly end up in last.

Maybe next time. Let's all be sure to mention it in our Club Nintendo feedback.
12/11/11, 23:55   
I don't think the effectiveness of smaller items has been taken away, you need to be more strategic than ever with the smaller items like shells and bananas. The uber items bring the pack closer together, but the outcome of the race will most likely depend on small item strategy and racing. Item usage is a really under-recognized skill in Mario Kart, and it's more important than ever in Mario Kart 7. Sometimes I get so pissed at myself for using a banana or a green shell at the wrong time, because I know I'm going to get fucked over, and 90% of the time I'm right and I get my ass whooped.

I'm one of the guys who championed item usage as a skill in Mario Kart Wii, and now I'm doing it again, with good reason. While I'd put it more at 60% racing and 40% item usage (kinda like poker, which 60% skill and 40% luck), here item usage has a very tangible skill element that you need to master to succeed. If you're out-boosting and cutting corners faster than your rivals, and using your items in a smarter way, whether it be offensively or defensively, you're going to win a lot of races, regardless of the uber items.

But it's that blue shell, or lightning, at the worst of times, that really piss us off and leave a negative impression. I know it to be true. However, if you can deal with a few crappy finishes here and there, you'll really appreciate the skill that's required in both facets, racing and item usage, to consistently perform well in Mario Kart 7.
12/11/11, 23:57   
Edited: 12/12/11, 00:02
Well, in theory if you're opening up the item selection to the users you would open up item frequency as well. But that'd be like a whole other step for Nintendo, so let's just focus on getting the selection unlocked.

anon_mastermind said:
but the outcome of the race will most likely depend on small item strategy and racing.


I dunno, I kind of heavily disagree with this. And of course there is no way to truly analyze every element that comes into every victory in Mario Kart, so we may never know the actual answer here.

Now I have always, even from early on, said that good item usage is an important part of Mario Kart. Banana peels, green shells, all of these can be thrown away or used effectively. And I don't want that taken away. I just don't think I like the idea of a racing game that, whether 50/50 as I claim or 60/40 as you claim, has such a high dependence on item usage. I'd be happy with like 75/25 or 80/20 or something.

On a side note, I want to murder the people who ask to bring items into F-Zero. Leave me at least one pure racer! (And bring it online with no rubber banding either, so I can actually test my true skills against other people on a fair playing field...) Actually at this rate maybe I should just be happy if Nintendo makes another F-Zero period...
12/11/11, 23:57   
Edited: 12/12/11, 00:02
@Zero
Disagree for now but I believe you'll come around eventually, once you put more time into it.

With Mario Kart, Nintendo is trying to give every player the feeling that they have a chance to win. We just have to come to terms with what Mario Kart really is. It's a bridge title and one if Nintendo's biggest franchises for this very reason. It's so easy to get into and new players don't feel like they're being curbstomped.

Ok. Now that we've accepted that the game is trying to make everybody win, how do we separate the most skilled players from the rest? While I agree that earlier iterations were less focused on items, I don't think you can say that earlier Mario Karts required more skill in general. It's just that the skill has shifted to place a higher emphasis on smart item usage than racing. But they are both still critical components to the Mario Kart formula.

I'd also be more happy with 75/25, but then, my girlfriend might not be motivated to keep playing. So I'll deal with it
12/12/11, 00:13   
Edited: 12/12/11, 00:14
Come around eventually? I've probably put in over 100 hours between DS and Wii versions, probably even close to 200 hours, and I already have 20 or so hours put into 7. I've pretty much played the heck out of every Mario Kart other than the GBA game. I'm not going to change my mind, the balance has been shifted heavily towards the "uber" items over time. In fact, by default it has to have been, because none of these items even existed in the original version and they just keep adding more and more of them to each new version! It just gets shifted more and more that direction, and I think if you have one of these extremely proficient MK players like uh... Kenny? then yeah, they're going to be fine more often than not. But for most of us the uber items end up mattering a lot more than they should.

As for your bridge point, yeah I've thought about this. But I think there is a way to give the people in back a boost without making everyone else feel like they're getting totally fucked over and losing the momentum in their own racing. The uber mushroom is one example, it can help someone far behind get caught up a bit but it's not automatically going to fuck over a lot of other people. Yeah a skilled player can mushroom bump people off the edge while getting caught up, but for the most part it's not an item I'm worried about someone behind me using on me and fucking up my momentum when I'm ahead. I think I could even live with that as a compromise, more items that help people get caught up but don't slap me in the face in the process just because I'm ahead. I've also thought about shortcuts that only open up during certain times, like say... once the top 4 racers have passed them or something. I don't know. There are plenty of ways to try to balance out the racing a bit without adding the insane frustration that comes from being nailed by some of these uber items.

Even with something like Smash Brothers and Smash Balls the worst that can happen is you can lose 1 life if someone nails you. You're never going to go from 1st to last in an instant because someone uber itemed you.
12/12/11, 00:55   
Edited: 12/12/11, 00:57
@Zero
Let me ask this then: why are you not better at Mario Kart? It seems to me if you've put in the time, you should be more skilled than you are. I'm not trying to put you down, but I think you need to focus on certain aspects of your game (hint: small item strategy and racing) and you will better come to terms with the game itself. I really can't overstate the importance of picking your spots with items, defending with items, and being aware of which items people around you have.

I mean, I think Kenny and others would agree with me here. Kenny, where are you? Get off Mario Kart for a sec!

I agree there are other ways to do it, but to me, Mario Kart 7 is the most rubber-banded Mario Kart already. And what's important when the pack is all clustered toegether? Small item usage and defense.

You smash bros analogy doesn't apply. If you get screwed by a final smash, you are essentially in "last place", and the only way you can comeback is to show greater skill than your opponent or get an uber item yourself.
12/12/11, 01:12   
Well, I'm reaching the point where I'm just done with Mario Kart online unless it's with you guys.

It seems like after passing 3000 VR, every room is full of idiots who just vote for Maka Wuhu so they can use that stupid glitch over and over and over again. How is that even fun?
12/12/11, 07:05   
Oh man, I can't wait to join you guys! MKWii was a lot fun on the WiiGB. In the mean time, I bought some additional N64 controllers so my siblings and I can play MK64.

@kgtennispro

Sounds frustrating. : / There were a lot of cheaters in Mario Kart DS that made playing online frustrating too.

P.S. Great avatar. That train chapter is hilarious. : P
12/12/11, 07:32   
@kgtennispro
That sucks. I caught my first glitcher tonight. I hope Nintendo can fix this issue somehow.

Anyways, Kenny do you mind chiming in about the item balance and my analysis of item usage? Would you agree that small item skills are more important than ever in Mario Kart 7?
12/12/11, 07:32   
I've seen a couple Maka Wuhu cheaters, but not many. Hopefully they knock it off...is the VR even worth it at this point? Getting higher than the last two places will still net you points either way, so why play like a wiener?

An excellent read (on GAMEFAQS, no less) about strategically using items and minimizing the chances of them screwin' you over. Although this applies to MKW, a lot of it still holds for MK7.

His intro paragraph:

The importance of item management
It doesn’t matter how solid your lines are, how much you time trial, or how much you practice getting the tracks down. Having good lines helps, but items can throw a wrench in everything. I know there are a lot of players out there that have way more skill than I do as far as racing lines go. But, the items are what allow me to keep up. Items are something that cannot be taken away. Unlike vehicle, or character stats, your item management is going to be the same. If you are really good with items, you can do well, even on some of the crappiest vehicles in this game. Most of the time, when you see someone dominating a room, it’s not just their racing skill; it’s their ability to use items. It is such a huge part of this game, I cannot stress it enough. You might not be the most skilled racer in the room, but if you are good with your items, you are most likely going to be a force to be reckoned with. Item management is often what separates a 8000-9000 player from a 9999 player.


In short, I pretty much agree with anon--there's really a lot you can do with all the items to help get a big enough lead to absorb a lightning or blue shell without losing a place. But I can definitely see where Zero comes from--specifically, it's the last-lap late-game blue shell which is the bane of my existence, and it happens fairly often. I guess a key component of the game is in getting far enough ahead using other skills to be able to recover in time, and this includes a smart use of shells, bananas, and mushrooms (as well as anything you may grab from falling behind). For instance, I sometimes slow down a bit intentionally if everyone is bunched up close together so I can potentially get the golden mushroom/trips/star/bullet at the expense of half a second or so. Gotta love the sandbagging!
12/12/11, 08:13   
In a way I kind of agree with both of you.

Small item usage definitely plays the biggest role in the outcome for most races. But there are definitely those races where I just get completely screwed over right at the end and wind up placing 7th or 8th. Those are the times where the game just pisses me off because I know I did everything right throughout the race, but then I still lose thanks to getting bombarded right around the last corner; something that I have absolutely no control over.

My biggest tip though, is watch the bottom screen constantly. Not only for blue shells, but for other things too. I had a race in Neo Bowser City earlier tonight where I was in first, and I noticed the guy behind me had 3 red shells. He was smartly holding onto them, expecting me to use the jump before the final lap to glide over part of the track so that he could knock me out of bounds. Sure enough as I lifted off the ramp, he started launching them, but failed miserably since I just went forward, quickly landing back onto the track. That's been one of my favorite moments in the game so far, heh.
12/12/11, 08:32   
One of my favorite moments was someone in front of me who had 3 bananas dragging behind him while I had 3 green shells. I busted through his line of defense in the last stretch of the race and hit him with a shell then passed him Items really do piss me off sometimes in this game because no matter how good you are, anyone can pass you if they have the right items. And then of course there's the combinations of getting screwed over. This was last night although in a single player race where I got hit by just about everything I could not avoid. A blue shell hit me, then a red shell hit me as I was about to recover. Then a few seconds after, I take a jump and while I'm in mid-air, a lightning bolt hits me, causing me to fall into a pit. It just seems so easy to get the worst luck possible in this game.
12/12/11, 15:19   
So our cable provider is coming over to look at the line. They confirmed there's an issue with our line (since nothing can stay connected for more than a few minutes) so once that's all straightened out, I'll be online a lot more.
12/12/11, 16:06   
@anon_mastermind Well... I am pretty good at Mario Kart. Of course, when I play against you guys, for the most part we all play these games a ton, so I don't stand out or anything. I generally do ok though. And Kenny has probably already put in like 5x more time into this game than I have, I put a decent amount of time into each version but I'm not hardcore about it or anything.

But I really think the recent versions reward good play less than most multiplayer games do, at least when the players are in the "good" to "great" range and not in the "Mario Kart guru" range. I'm not saying it doesn't reward good play at all, of course it does and over time the better players will have the better records, but if there is some kind of scale out there and we put all of the major multiplayer games from all of the major platforms on it, Mario Kart would be one of the outliers. Are you disagreeing with this? If so, which games would you say reward good play less? Mario Party is the only one offhand I can think of.

Basically the whole Nintendo concept of balancing games so that anyone can feel like they have a shot at winning almost by definition makes Mario Kart one of the least rewarding games for good play. I don't mind some of this balancing, but I really feel like the newer Mario Kart games took it too far. Maybe some random n00b shouldn't be in dead last every race because that would be demoralizing in some respects, but they shouldn't be bullet bill-ing past everyone into first place either. I actually question whether this has the effect on players Nintendo intended. I know when I win a race like that it doesn't feel like a real win at all, it just feels like I got lucky. Does feeling lucky and winning really translate into more confidence and more desire to keep playing? Maybe. I'd think what would work more though is giving these players some kind of tease at placing better while making them work harder to actually earn it.

anon_mastermind said:
You smash bros analogy doesn't apply. If you get screwed by a final smash, you are essentially in "last place", and the only way you can comeback is to show greater skill than your opponent or get an uber item yourself.

Depends on how you play I suppose, we tend to play 5 stock. So one lucky final smash can, at most, take away 20% of someone's overall life, so a good player who gets screwed by that will still have a good chance at winning nonetheless. Even so, only certain characters have "auto" final smashes (and those characters are usually gimped in other ways to make up for it), the rest still have to work to get a kill. Also, EVERYONE has an equal chance to get a smash ball... or I'd even argue that better players have a higher chance since they will be able to navigate the stages quicker and attack the ball better/more consistently, so there is no person in last place screwing person in first automatically thing going on.
12/12/11, 18:27   
Edited: 12/12/11, 18:31
@Zero
I think you have a weird way of looking at it. When I do well in Mario Kart, I know it's because of skill. Last night me and some other guy traded first and second place for about an hour back and forth. In 20 races with 8 players, maybe once did I finish 4th and once 5th. We were dominating, in spite of your so called "not rewarding good play", and not because the other players sucked, we were just outplaying them in every facet of the game. It was really fun, and I could see that he was managing his items really well. We had so many standoffs where he had a banana and I had a green shell, and we were waiting for just the right spots to use em. Me being right on his tail, he would occasionally plop down the banana at a strategic spot on the track that screwed me over. Another time, on a tight turn I hit him in the side while he held a banana for defense behind him. That felt so damn good.

Another example: getting a red shell in fourth place, I see that the guy behind me gets three mushrooms, and the guy in front of me gets three bananas. So I just hang on to that shell, focus on my racing to pass the guy with the bananas, meanwhile the guy with the mushrooms zooms in front of me and I nail him with a red shell.

You have to understand that the random noob who's bullet billing past everyone will not place highly most of the time. They just get the illusion that it's possible to do well, and once in a while, they're not last, and they have fun.

@TriforceBun
Amazing. That reads like something I would say myself. I've been saying it since Mario Kart Wii as well, but now it's even more important to manage your items well. Furthermore, there's more depth to the item management due to the bottom screen.

@kgtennispro
That's right, nobody said you can win every match, there's still a luck factor. But the most skilled item usage and racing combined will win out or place highly most of the time. Nice example too, that's using the track, managing items, and outsmarting your opponent.

@VofEscaflowne
Nice job! And I feel you about that bad outcome. Same thing happened to me last night in one race, blue shelled and then lightninged in mid air but at least I know it's not something that will happen often.
12/12/11, 20:24   
You guys should sooooo play Blur (one of the few four-player split-screen HD racing games). It really is like an intense, skill-based version of Mario Kart(/Wipeout). All of your balance complaints would magically disappear. Annoying ad campaign aside, it's so sad that this game utterly bombed. It's fantastic.
12/13/11, 16:37   
I borrowed Blur from my library a year ago and I wasn't too impressed. I mean, I can tell that it's a quality game, but I didn't have much fun with it.

I can't explain why, but Mario Kart is the only racing series that I enjoy that uses weapons. I love stuff like Burnout Paradise, but as soon as weapons are introduced into the mix I lose interest. Unless it's Mario Kart.
12/13/11, 16:48   
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