This is one game where I feel that both the Wii Remote and Wii U tablet controller would significantly benefit the gameplay (pointer controls, streamlined visor combat/interaction). You could also use the touch screen for mode/item selections and the map. I'd rather have this option than be forced to choose between the two.

What do you guys think? Yea? Nay? WTF?

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@casper884

You've either never been shotgun hunting or you hunt very, very strangely.

@Kal-El814

I have actually, and while a shotgun is easier to hold/aim with, it's also about a billion times heavier, and has recoil. Imagine having to play with something like THAT as a video game controller.

Wouldn't you have to kind of be shooting down the sights almost? Holding it up higher?

Playing with the Wiimote in your lap is not a big deal. It's just moving your wrist. Playing with a gun peripheral in two hands in your lap? For a meaty game like Metroid? It sounds like it would get uncomfortable after an hour. You'd also have to have a dual analog option anyway, because you'd need to play it on the tablet if the screen is off. From that point of view, I don't know how this control scheme could be exclusive. You'd have to offer multiple control options.

@PogueSquadron

What's wrong with shooting by aiming down the sights? You do realize that some people would actually prefer to do that? And for that matter, what's wrong with taking breaks if you're tired?

Anyway, no, you wouldn't HAVE to offer dual analog controls because streaming to the controller while the TV is off is not a required feature. Nintendo made it very clear that they won't be forcing developers to implement a certain feature in their games for Wii U.

@Guillaume
Actually, a game of that type would be pretty cool, if no one else could spot the Skrulls/Aliens/whatnot, and they reacted as if you were going on a killing spree.

@kriswright
Explain.

@casper884
Down the sights? You mean with the same kludge that the Wiimote uses, right? I really wish the IR sensors were positioned at the corners of the screen, or something.

@casper884

Sure, but you're not tromping around the woods looking down the sights the whole time! If you're hunting for an hour and playing Metroid for an hour, you'll be holding the Zapblet "up" for a lot longer than you'd be aiming down the irons of the shotgun.

I don't think that a shotgun would be easier to manage than the Zapblet generally, but it's a whole different thing.

@Anand

The IR is used as a reference point (to know in what direction the tv is facing), but the tablet has the ability to measure its absolute orientation by itself. So aiming down the sights (looking through the touch screen) would not require the IR for aiming. This was not the case with the wiimote, since it depended on an IR source to move the cursor.

@casper884
Well, let's just say I will be pretty disappointed if a big first party game doesn't support the screen-switching. I expect ALL Nintendo developed games to support it, and also (hoping) they support multiple control schemes.

@Kal-El814

Why would you be aiming down the sights the whole time while playing Metroid? You could go into 'aim mode' when you're in combat to look down the sights, and then 'free look' mode for just moving the camera around (so that you don't have to hold the zapper up so high).

Even if you did have to do it the whole time though, it'd be comparable to real life skeet competitions, where you're looking down the sights for an extended period of time.

Anyway, a shotgun would be easier to aim because of how you can rest it on your forearm, but not necessarily easier to 'manage' because of the weight and recoil. Regardless, using the 'zapblet' wouldn't be nearly as demanding as using a shotgun, which was my point.

Could be fun, though personally I'm hoping for another Metroid game in the same vein as Metroid: Other M...just less invisible walls, a bit more music, and more power-up drops from enemies instead of practically none.

@anon_mastermind

Well, prepare to be disappointed. If they make a game that REQUIRES the use of both screens, then the game will be impossible to be streamed only to the tablet.

@casper884
That's where multiple control schemes comes in. Like this Zapper/tablet thing, it requires both screens, but they could add a dual analog scheme for handheld play, and why not a mote/chuck scheme while they're at it.

I dunno, it just seems too bulky, too uncomfortable, and not as intuitive. The beauty of IR on the Wiimote to me is that it's pretty effortless. You basically just tilt your wrist. Weren't there complaints about the Wii Zapper that it wasn't as intuitive because you could be quicker using the Wiimote by itself?

To me, it's an either/or, and not both, unless you just use the tablet to set aside or in your lap as a secondary map screen (or possibly a second player feeding you information from your ship or something).

And let's not also forget the fact that in the event that you want to get a better look at the tablet, or possibly use the touch screen, Samus is probably constantly either spinning or looking up or down or something. You'd have to keep the IR pointed at the screen while manipulating the screen or else Samus will get all turned around. So in that case, you'd have to be more careful using the tablet, and if that's the case, you're better off pausing the game, which kind of takes away one of the strengths of using the tablet in the first place. I think it's different when you're just holding the tablet in your lap, but it's a different ballgame completely when you're holding it by a plastic peripheral. You really wouldn't be able to interact with the touch screen at all without the game getting completely wonky. To me, being able to manipulate the touch screen is the whole point of having the second display. It can act as your menu to equip things, rotate maps, write notes to yourself, etc. Is that going to be practical at all when you're not holding the tablet by itself?

If this peripheral is simply to just add IR functionality to the tablet, then I'd rather they just skip the tablet completely. Maybe offer it as an optional thing to display your map that you keep on your lap or something. Maybe another player can hold it to help you navigate. It looks like fun in short spurts, but not in a beefy adventure game. But if this is just so I can have a little map while using IR functionality, I'll pass.

This is why I still think they should stick with an Other M esque control scheme and keep the tablet for your map, area info, enemy data, etc. Other M wasn't the greatest game by any means, but there were some things they seriously did right, and I think they could improve upon that in another game.

Anand said:

@kriswright
Explain.

Not much to explain. The Speedboard was a useless hunk of plastic that attached to the standard controller without giving any real practical advantage to the player. Same with the useless Wii Zapper. I balk most of the time when I hear someone hurl the word "gimmick" at Nintendo, but the Zapper definitely looked like a gimmick to me.

@anon_mastermind

No, when I say REQUIRES the use of two screens, I mean that it's so integral to the gameplay that it'd be impossible to play without it. Like Motion + is to Skyward Sword.

@casper884

Actually, if they had the system set up the way you describe, the game wouldn't have any idea if you put it in the zapper, right? Couldn't you just put the tablet next to you for map reference?

That is, unless, you want to do something where you get an x-ray visor that's only visible through the tablet screen....in which case....blegh.

@PogueSquadron

Well, I DID say zapper exclusive controls, so things like looking through the tablet screen for certain visor effects while maintaining pointer controls would indeed be examples of the general concept, where even though the game doesn't know that the zapper is connected, you wouldn't be able to play the game without it.

@casper884 I guess I just have a hard time seeing what the appeal of that really is. That doesn't seem like it would really enhance the game at all, at least nearly not as much as IR control for aiming.

I understand the point in a multiplayer game, where the person in the tablet sees things that the other players do not. Or some sort of minigame where moving the tablet in front of your eyes actually mimics what the on screen character is doing (aka, using a sniper rifle). With Samus though? It's not really mimicking anything on screen at all, since the gun is her arm. Any tablet uses would have to maybe be like, some sort of computer Samus keeps on her left wrist or something like that...which sounds weird because you'd then have to try and use the touch screen while you're holding a plastic peripheral.

I mean actually, it actually feels like it would take me out of the game. One thing I love about the Prime games is that the screen IS your visor. You see water droplets hit it, gas fogs it up, and you even see Samus' reflection in it. When the visor screen changes, it's a seamless transition that changes what the world looks like. To me the whole point of the visor and its on screen effects is that you're practically glued to the TV, like you're looking through Samus' eyes. What would be the point of having the player hold up the tablet to the screen, other than "because we can?"

And while we're at it, I'm really hoping that the next Zelda game doesn't revolve around some sort of magical item that Link gets that conveniently looks similar to a WiiU tablet, and lets him see the world in a different way. I really want Nintendo's gameplay ideas to be more organic, and not "Well, we have this tablet now, what are we going to do with it?" Hopefully the gameplay inspired the peripheral, and not the other way around.

That sounds absolutely horrible, holding up the zapper with for 20 hrs to play an adventure game, not fun. MP3 controls were bad enough and you could rest the wiimote on your knee (which I still found incredibly cumbersome and uncomfortable).

I really wish Nintendo would go back to having normal controllers so all this nonsense would end. Wii U might be the first Nintendo console I don't buy if Nintendo forces gimmicky ways of using the tablet screen upon us that aren't really innovative or fun, but are just there to be "different".

casper884 said:

Dual analog controls are ABSOLUTE SHIT

That's ridiculous. What is absolute shit is when gimmicks for gimmicks sake takes the place of actual innovation in game design, other platforms get games like Portal 2 which has more style and substance that Wii's entire library of 1st person games, and it plays just fine with dual analog. I'm all for Wii games having pointer controls as an option, but dual analog should always be there for people who just want functional controls that aren't tortuous and annoying to use.

@PogueSquadron

But who says that there can't still be a visor for the tv screen? The point of using two screens would be to introduce new gameplay concepts. So in this case, it's now possible to use two separate visors at once, functioning independently from each other or working in conjunction with each other.

Anyway, prepare to be disappointed by Zelda Wii U then because Aonuma basically confirmed that the tablet will assume the forms of the different items Link will use, just like the wiimote and nunchuk assumed the places of the sword and shield. Furthermore, Nintendo never makes hardware just to make it; they make hardware to bring certain software ideas to fruition. The birth of the tablet came from the idea of bringing forth new gameplay concepts in both familiar and original software experiences.