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Nostalgia Goggles (I WANT TO SLAP THEM OFF OF PEOPLE) [roundtable]
 
So I was in Anatomy/Physiology lab today, and one guy in my group noticed what was on my shirt:



He asked, "Hey, is that a metroid?"

I said, "Yeah"

He said, "Cool, Super Metroid is one of my favorite games."

"Mine too! :D " I said.

At this time, I'm thinking, 'Holy crap, a Nintenbro at my college! I should introduce him to Neg-'

"Way better than those new first person shooter Prime ones."

...




SO THAT GOT ME THINKING...

Do nostalgia goggles cause a lot of bias towards newer games in a series?

FOR EXAMPLE:



DISCUSS!!!

Note: I love both Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. I actually enjoy the 2-D Metroids more and think Super Metroid is better, but not 'way better' as the guy smugly said.

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Posted: 08/24/11, 20:28:54  - Edited by 
 on: 08/24/11, 22:32:58
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Hybrid Heaven was really weird.

I don't think Nintendo was trying to replicate LttP's "gimmick" at all. There's really no reason to, considering most people's critiques of the series these days is that it doesn't change enough, not that it should resemble a 1991 SNES release even more. If I wanted the Dark World, I'd play LttP (or to a lesser extent, Metroid Prime 2).

I also felt that OoT's strengths (scope, discovery, sidequests, successfully translating a ton of series conventions into 3D) more than made up for the aspects that were too similar to LttP (the general plot progression, mainly).

Zero said:
@gencid I don't even know which game you are talking about anymore, you just sort of combined critiques of a bunch into one.

I hated OOT's Hyrule Field, if that is related at all to anything you said.
This made me laugh because I was wondering if I was the only one completely lost from that post.
Posted: 08/28/11, 18:25:44
I got Hybrid Heaven a few years ago, but only played a few minutes of it. It seemed really weird and not like something I wanted to bother playing. The only real thing I remember is how odd the intro is, having a lame gun that did nothing, and the Expansion Pak making the framerate absolutely horrible. A lot of Konami's games on the N64 have horrible framerates with the expansion pak, so I always turn that mode off when I try them out.
Posted: 08/28/11, 21:50:45
I used it a couple of times, but decided the framerate wasn't worth sacrificing, and yes, that's the music there. Pure awesomeness. And yeah... the 'gun' was only good for screwing with machines. Think it was called the Disruptor.

Actually... just thought of another game that was really awesome IMO, but never got the reception it should have, and that was Winback.
Posted: 08/29/11, 03:58:14
I only played Winback a little bit at a friend's house, but I seem to remember really enjoying it. I'd love to try it again.
Posted: 08/29/11, 05:17:35
I've never played Winback, but I've heard it's a third-person shooter with a cover system. That makes me want to get it
Posted: 08/29/11, 05:25:08
Yeah, I've always wanted to try out Winback, but I never did. In fact, I don't ever remember even seeing it on store shelves. Was it a limited release...?

From what I understand, it was the first game to introduce the "cover system" in 3rd person shooters that Gears of War popularized. Might be worth a look just for that!
Posted: 08/29/11, 17:28:19
It only had a print ad from what I remember, and I don't really remember it having much shelf time in stores. The game was really nice. The cover system was effective and felt pretty refreshing at the time. They did an updated version for the PS2 which included voice acting as well. Honestly, this is a title that Nintendo should consider for the VC.



Don't mind the commentary too much, though I found it a bit funny.
Posted: 08/29/11, 18:32:05  - Edited by 
 on: 08/29/11, 18:42:26
Referring back to the opening post, I typically haven't had this issue except with a handful of games. I had started gaming back with the Atari 2600 and had always seemed to have the "newer is better" mindset (again just a few exceptions like SMB 1&2 and Contra).

I think New SMB Wii started the nostalgia juices flowing. While it was a new game it reminded me of how good the old 2D platformers were "back in the day". I kinda wanted to embrace the Retro trend and did in fact come across several old games that I liked but haven't played in like forever.

I have to say one thing that snapped me out of the nostalgia a bit was Mega Man. I never liked it back in the day but seeing the release of the new but retro 8bit style games I thought I'd give it a go and got a demo. Turns out I still don't like them. Not saying they're bad - just not for me.

I guess I appreciate the old games more now than I used to but just realize that just like new does not mean better, neither does old = better.
Posted: 08/29/11, 19:09:22
Remember Mission Impossible on N64? I didn't get that game at all when I was younger. I wonder if it was actually a good game, or if it was as terrible as I remember it being.

Also, I want to bring up Final Fantasy 7. It's a game many consider the best gsme ever, while others can't stand the nostalgia and deem it mightily overrated. I personally have a hard time telling people that the game is overrated, because having played it a couple times all the way through...I don't know, I still think it's pretty amazing. It's either my first or second favorite game in the series. The story didn't quite make sense to me at first, but I totally get it now, and the game doesn't completely go off the wall like FF8 did. I've said it before but I could write for hours about everything I didn't like about FF8. To this day it's the only gsme I've ever beaten out of spite.

But yeah, FF7. Despite people possibly overrating it...I don't know, it's still a pretty fucking good game.
Posted: 08/29/11, 19:48:05  - Edited by 
 on: 08/29/11, 19:52:47
I don't really think Super Metroid is all that. I played through it briefly before I played through Prime. While yes, Super Metroid must have been the shit back in the day, and still holds up today, it is too cryptic in some instances for the benefit of the player. Some may cry out that desolation is how the atmosphere in Metroid is built, but Fusion proved that desolation is not exclusive to knowing where the hell you have to go or what to do next. Personally, most if not all games after Super Metroid do a good job of taking you back where you need to go without leading you by the hand like some modern games do, without feeling too cryptic.

Tell your mate that calling Metroid a FPS automatically negates any semblance of a coherent argument he may have had.
Posted: 08/29/11, 20:08:19
@PogueSquadron

Ha, I actually really liked Mission: Impossible on N64 back in the day. Make no mistake, it's not a great game. But I enjoyed it a lot, despite that. The sniper mission was more fun that it should have been. I was happy to see a similar mission show up in Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars this generation!

Also? Final Fantasy 7 is a good game. I don't think anyone is going to deny that. What people will argue about is whether or not it's as good as Final Fantasy 6. And people will also complain about the "trend" Final Fantasy 7 began with RPGs during that era. Cloud was a moody, emo protagonist with a chip on his shoulder (at least at first) and a lot of other RPGs had heroes that fit that mold after the game got super popular. Also, big flashy FMV sequences and super-long, drawn out adventures became the norm, since Final Fantasy 7 was so epic. It was like every other RPG out there had to do the same thing. Instead of having a tight, well-paced narrative in a game, RPGs ended up getting really padded and lengthy just so they could put those bullet-points on the back of the box.

None of these things really affect (effect?) Final Fantasy 7 IMHO, but that's the stuff that gets brought up during internet discussions/debates. It may have started some irritating trends in the gaming industry, but I don't think it should be put at fault for that. After all, Cloud's adventure was really the first of it's kind to do something like that. Back then, it was new and different.
Posted: 08/29/11, 23:18:05
Final Fantasy VII is my second favorite game of all time (the first being Ocarina of Time). However, unlike OOT, FFVII has not aged as well in certain departments. The graphics are pretty painful to watch right now. The music is still wonderful, though. And the gameplay is still as tight as ever. The story has always been convoluted but that has nothing to do with nostalgia or time. I thought it was convoluted then and I still think the same thing now. This is another game that could use a remaster like OOT.
Posted: 08/29/11, 23:28:39
@Tranquilo But... Super Metroid isn't that cryptic. You can always check your map and there are generally only three or four places tops on it that you have found but can't progress in yet. So you go check those places, and one of them is the way forward.

The original mapless Metroid... that one tested me.
Posted: 08/29/11, 23:40:36  - Edited by 
 on: 08/29/11, 23:40:56
@sirmastersephiroth How much of the 'convoluted plot' can be attributed to the game's translation though? I felt like the second or third time I played through FF7, I really didn't have any questions about the plot.

Looking at Final Fantasy 8, I think I actually have more questions every time I even think about the game.

I actually think I might like FF7 more than FF6, and I did play FF6 first. I still love FF6, but on the whole I think I just find Cloud's whole story more interesting. I think I also like the Materia system better than the Esper system, if for the only reason that at this moment, I am so absurdly tired of having to change out Espers all the time (and make sure that every character knows some decent healing spells and all that). The only thing I really hold against FF7 is that I think the game's secret weapons and that kind of stuff are much more "Gamefaq" worthy. If you put in the time in FF6, I feel like you can basically get all the best weapons and characters in the game. I just remember some things in FF7 being like..."How was I supposed to that I have to get this black chocobo to do this?"

Still, it's nothing compared to FF8, which for me, was basically me looking at an FAQ trying to make sure I was getting all the right materials to craft better weapons, or turn enemies into cards, or whatever other bullshit the game has you do to get the best weapons. Blagh.

I also really loved FF9, but unfortunately the game becomes a victim of "This is a Final Fantasy game, and as such, has to stop making sense at some point." It actually felt a lot like FF4 in that regard. I still think FF6 and 7 do a good job of making sense up until the end. Yeah, 7's a little convoluted, but the last time I played it, I felt like I had a very good grasp on what was going on.
Posted: 08/29/11, 23:46:22
@Zero


You're right. I'm talking about a couple of instances where I literally had no idea where to go or what to do and the game didn't do a good enough job explaining it. I feel that the following games in the series do a better job. With that said it is still not my favorite in the series. It's a great game, I just don't think it's any better than any of the following game in the series (nostalgia goggles). Hell, Fusion surpassed it. The only game I'd consider inferior to Super Metroid is Other M, but that one doesn't count, imo. If Super Metroid was too cryptic at times, Other M was too straight-forward always, but that is the least of my gripes with that game.

It's like saying OoT is the best Zelda game when multiple Zeldas have come out since that have 1up'ed it.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:03:42  - Edited by 
 on: 08/30/11, 00:23:43
Ah, Mission Impossible. From what I remember it wasn't as action-oriented as I had expected, but was still pretty decent in its own right. I do remember one key thing about the game was that the dev studio could NOT use Tom's likeness for Ethan Hunt at all. The other thing I remember was jacking up that guy's treadmill to make him fly off to cause a commotion. Muahahahahahah.

As for FF6 vs FF7, no competition for me. Don't get me wrong. FF7 is a very good game, but I just could never see it, or any of the sequels come close to 6. ... I take that back. 12 maybe. I don't know.... I think one reason I like 6 more was that there really was no one central character who was wholly important to the entire story. ...... that and in no other FF game do you have a character who is badass enough to suplex a train.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:33:32
@PogueSquadron The materia system is my favorite magic system in the whole series, followed closely by the Esper system. And you are right, after a couple of playthroughs the plot becomes more clear. But it is still weird as heck.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:39:42
Cryojin said:
suplex a train.

Thats really all you need to say.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:51:26
Mr_Mustache said:
Cryojin said:
suplex a train.

Thats really all you need to say.

I can't argue with that. Chuck Norris would approve.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:55:09
@sirmastersephiroth

I endorse this post.

In my top 5 games of all time, FFVII has the honour of being the *only* non-Nintendo title on the list. And I'd kill for a remake on 3DS.
Posted: 08/30/11, 00:57:12
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