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Mega Man, Contra, Castlevania, Ghosts'n'Goblins - Platformers? [roundtable]
 
Ratchet & Clank, Jak 2 & 3, Sly 2 & 3 - Platformers?

Metroid?

Let's hash it out. In my eyes, a platformer is a game that is DEFINED by its platforming. A game in which the primary mechanic (or at least one of them) is platforming, moving and jumping through an environment built for that purpose. Where that platforming is part of the game's challenge.

When I first heard games like Contra referred to as 'platformers', I was actually shocked. Because you were able to jump in almost every 2D game. To me, those were 'Action Games', because you could also shoot stuff. However, I can see a bit of a gray area there, since some of the platforming is kind of challenging. I still posit that the primary action in the game is 'shooting', though.

Metroid has a ton of platforming, but that game was about exploration, to me. And 'platformers' seldom are.

But maybe my criteria are too limited. What do you guys think?

By the way, the genre label is a totally meaningless distinction, but I thought it would be fun to argue about. It does bug me when people don't acknowledge Super Mario Sunshine as the best 'platformer' last gen, though, because, honestly, what game had better 'platforming'? I love Ratchet and Clank, but I don't remember it exercising my platforming muscles at all. 3D games are a bit different, I guess, because there aren't many pure 'platformers' these days. Even games like Mario include a bit of a puzzle element. But clambering around custom environments is still the star of the show.

Now that I said all of that, I do think of Crackdown as a platformer, because that is where the fun of the game was, to me. It may have been a co-lead mechanic, but it was a well-done, challenging one.

Mirror's Edge and Prince of Persia should have only focused on the platforming, since combat dragged them down. Assassin's Creed has a lot of platforming, but it feels sloppy to me.

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02/24/11, 18:40  
 
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Dillo64 said:
I do not know what Ghosts 'N Goblins is and I'm pretty certain it is not a video game, and never was.

Really Dillo?

Kudos for your excellent categorization of Contra though.
02/26/11, 07:46   
Obviously Wikipedia is an unruly site that anyone can edit and cannot be trusted.

I do not know what Ghost 'N/or Goblins is and I will gladly deny any ridiculous "evidence" of its alleged existence to the death.
02/26/11, 08:13   
@Dillo64 I played it in an arcade once. That should be proof enough that it exists.
02/26/11, 08:18   
You are obviously insane.

I see no reason to continue this conversation.
02/26/11, 08:32   
Dillo64 said:
Its very hard to classify Mega Man as either a platformer or a shooter, when really he's both equally. Thus Mega Man can only be known as a Shatformer.
Brilliant.

I also like your explanation of the prefixes.

Seriously, I think you covered everything we could ever hope to cover on the subject. I'm tempted to lock the thread because any addition would only tarnish its current perfection.
02/26/11, 18:05   
Edited: 02/26/11, 18:06
@Mr_Mustache
I still haven't played Secret of Mana. How about Zelda? Do you consider that an Action RPG? Zelda II is probably the closest, in a different way.

I dunno if I'd count Muramasa, since every action game these days has leveling elements.

I probably wouldn't count Tri-Ace games, either, because I hate them.
02/26/11, 19:24   
@anandxxx

Zelda II is an Action RPG. It's primarily an action game and it has RPG elements. It's not really a platformer though- the jumping is used more for the combat than navigating the levels.

I suppose all the other Zelda games are probably Action Adventure, right? Adventure and RPG are kind of similar categories. RPGs are generally known for leveling up and having stats, but that's not really what a Role Playing Game is. A Role Playing Game would be a game that you play a role in. Doesn't that describe every video game?
02/26/11, 21:21   
Not Tetris. Anyway, in most Japanese RPGs, you are seldom 'playing a role'. Mostly, you're just watching other people play one, unless it is one of the early ones with strong Wizardry influences.

Western RPGs are more about role playing. But RPG is another term that has no agreed-upon definition. Define it!

Regardless, I think the non-AoL Zeldas have very few of the features that commonly identify RPGs (leveling, heavy narrative, consequence). The early games were defined by action and exploration, and the newer ones by action and puzzles. Really, just puzzles.
02/26/11, 22:52   
Edited: 02/26/11, 22:54
Nice explanation Dillo! It all makes sense now.

@Secret_Tunnel
Wait, by words of Dillo, Zelda II should be classified as a role-playing action game, not an action-RPG.
02/26/11, 23:01   
Edited: 02/26/11, 23:03
anandxxx said:
@Mr_Mustache
I still haven't played Secret of Mana. How about Zelda? Do you consider that an Action RPG? Zelda II is probably the closest, in a different way.

I dunno if I'd count Muramasa, since every action game these days has leveling elements.

I probably wouldn't count Tri-Ace games, either, because I hate them.

What is wrong with you?!

Seriously, there should be MANDATORY classes for us. We should find the next slow month across all systems, and FORCE people to play certain games, myself included. Anand will download and beat Secret of Mana, I will finally play my copy of Super Mario Galaxy (when I get my Wii back..).

This is ludicrous!
02/27/11, 01:22   
This thread made me laugh.

Count me in on the team that doesn't really think it matters what they are though.

I think if you have to classify them, true platformers are almost dead in this day and age. But I love me a good old-fashioned Mario.
02/27/11, 03:11   
@Mr_Mustache
I'm surprised that you didn't put Ogre Battle 64 on the curriculum!
02/27/11, 18:42   
@anandxxx

Thats for after you play Ogre Battle...after Secret of Mana....
02/28/11, 20:40   
Damn, Okami alone is already kicking my ass!
02/28/11, 21:34   
@anandxxx

First things first..

Maybe I'll fire up SoM in a month or so and we can play through that, too.
Are there enough people who haven't played Secret of Mana yet?
02/28/11, 22:11   
@Mr_Mustache

I'd be in. I bought it when it came out on the VC but didn't get far.
02/28/11, 22:17   
WTH guys lets focus on one retro game at a time!

STARTROPICS!!!
02/28/11, 22:18   
@Pandareus

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. I'll get my SNES ready!..in a few months.
I'll make my wife play through, too!

@Zero

And then Ogre Battle after that?!
02/28/11, 22:26   
Um... depends how the voting goes. I'd be willing to give it another shot if it were selected for one of these things.

Although I kind of feel like we should try to pick "accessible" games. It's tough enough talking people into going back and playing old games.
02/28/11, 22:36   
@Zero

Define "retro." One generation? Four generations back?

I like Okami Club, and the pace. I don't want to see that be replaced.
Retro Game Club feels..different?

I'll spearhead the Secret of Mana one if you want. "Okami Club presents Secret of Mana!"
02/28/11, 22:41   
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