I suppose the problem is Sunshine isn't really a sequel to Mario 64 it is kind of its own beast, Mario Galaxy 2 is a direct sequel to Mario Galaxy and may have come with certain expectations.

As far as Bowsers Gravity Gauntlet goes to me it is better than any level in NSMBW. It constantly toyed with my expectations, The gravity portion with the Fireballs was stellar. Getting a level to feel that good while dealing with not only a 3D environment but an environment that twists and turns like that is an amazing acheivment and as much credit as I levi towards the creators of NSMBW for creating a great 2D Mario game Galaxy 2 just oozes creativity on a much higher level. I just wish they could do Bowser battles as great as the final boss in NSMBW.

Well its a hazard that you initially assume will move one way and then its assumed behaviour shifts due to the way gravity works in that instance. I initially found that jump to be quite tricky where it would normally be as simple as waiting and jumping. Galaxy 2 constantly changed my expectations of perceived platforming stereotypes and put a unique twist on them, to me thats crazy considering very few developers have even caught up with Nintendo when it comes to the standards of 2D and 3D platforming let alone this.

Half-Life:Opposing Force is the best "expansion pack" ever made. It was basically HL2 before HL2 in my opinion. So if you guys want to play an AWESOME expansion pack try that game.

Now back on topic:
In the end I'm not quite as disappointed with SMG2 as you seem to be, Simba, but I still think SMG is the much better game as a whole. If you consider the entire package from visuals, innovation, graphics, gameplay, oresentation, impact, etc for their time (2007 to 2010?) SMG is the better game. SMG2 is *now* more enjoyable and more refined but that's now. If you played SMG after SMG2 you might think the opposite. I agree that SMG2 looks like an obstacle course compared to SMG looking *more* like a coherent world (though both pale in comparison to SM64 and Sunshine in that regard). I don't want random things floating around in space any longer (unless they do Mario's dreams/nightmares like I suggested, where it'd make sense).

How could you target then slurp 3 enemies at once with Yoshi? The pointer is key.

Edit: There may not be an abundance of new platforming challenges in Galaxy 2, but what is there is ultra-refined, and feels more satisfying to play through than in Galaxy.

@Simbabbad Well I'm bent on it because it isn't really true. Almost every area has new functionality that wasn't in the last game. It's not like someone just handed the design team the original code and said get to work making new stages. Actually that is what happened, and it was supposed to be finished in a year, but they kept coding new stuff in, and eventually Miyamoto was like F it, let's just make a new game. 90% of the areas have new functionality that required new code, and it took 2 1/2 years to complete as opposed to the original 1. Which is not what I think when I think "expansion pack" at all.

I wonder if we're not really disagreeing so much as misunderstanding what each other means when we speak of "assets". To me the core code that creates a game is part of its assets. If there is new gameplay that has new code behind it, that is a new asset, in my eyes. And there is a ton of this in Super Mario Galaxy 2. I mean, they could have went the HD route on sequels which would be try to get new and more impressive graphics and environments and pretty much reuse all of the old gameplay with one or two minor additions like Gears of War 2 and God of War 3 and the likes. I guess I prefer the focus on the gameplay itself.

@Simbabbad

I don't see anyone in this thread arguing that Galaxy 1 has better level design than Galaxy 2, which is the claim that you're on the verge of making.

You're already oversimplifying very significant gameplay concepts like in Bowser's Gravity Gauntlet with your, "it's just a bunch of different camera changes"...yeah, no shit. The point is how it affects the perception of the end-user. By that logic, Portal is just a game where you make holes in a wall to warp to places. The final boss battle in NSMBW is just a sequence where you run to a power switch, Mirror's Edge is just a game where you run along objects and on rooftops...I could go on and on.

The point is, you're undermining Galaxy 2's gameplay all because it doesn't have the same impact as Galaxy 1. You say that you see nothing brilliant after 100%ing the first world, yet if you had 100%ed that first world before Galaxy 1 was even created, you'd probably be singing a different tune right now.

In that light, the reason it's going to take more time for you to be impressed with Galaxy 2 is because it's already fighting an uphill battle with your expectations from the first game. So what you consider mediocre is really just at the same level of brilliance as the first game, but 'being at the same level' is not enough to have the same impact. So the game has to be even more brilliant.

I don't see how it is a bad thing for you to need to get 120 stars to really be impressed when the first game was the same way. Developers fault or not, you are NOT seeing the best of the game if you simply do the minimum to finish the game.

119 stars.

Only the Stone Cyclone speed run remains.

Sucks to be me.

David V

@porphyrous
I think a lot more remains

Yeah, of course. But I needed that last star to unlock it.

It turned out to be not as bad as I'd feared. It wasn't nearly as bad as the Chimp's challenges or the double-time Beat Block galaxy.

David V

Zero said:

I'm still at 241. 242 is a bitch. I don't think it is even necessarily that difficult, it's just kind of annoying to have to play all of the easy parts in this (fairly) long level just to get to the one or two hard parts near the end that I feel kind of out of control with and then die instantly and start it all over. And then you try to rush through the easy parts and get sloppy and make dumb mistakes. I'm even beginning to wonder if a good strategy would be to get to the end on the normal Grandmaster star and practice it over and over (killing myself at the end end instead of taking the star) just to get that part down, because I have gotten there a few times but then it gets me.

But to be honest, I'm not sure if I care enough. Between work and grad school and everything I've become more of a casual gamer (as far as not having the mental energy to push myself super hard, not as far as types of games) and let me tell you, whatever you feel about the rest of the game, there is no denying that star 242 is hardcore. Maybe I'll move on for now and come back to it (or not) when I have the time and energy to play it right.

I just got #241 last night. Grandmaster Galaxy is an awesome level.

I still need to get enough Star Bits to unlock the final challenge. I can't wait.

Oh, and I read you did get #242. Congrats man, and to everyone else who has accomplished this.

Bringing this thread back from the dead. Sorry.

I had this game in my Wii because I checked what the Super Guide is actually like earlier, for the purpose of talking about it on the podcast. So this afternoon I thought, hey, since the game is already in there, might as well get a few green stars like I said I would, but ended up never doing.

I had collected 2 green stars in the first level back in May or June, today I finished up the rest of World 1. Why had I stopped at 2 green stars? I wasn't feeling it: having only a sound as a clue that there is one nearby, plus the inability to freely look around with the camera, made me think it would be more chore than fun.

Well, as it turns out it's not quite that bad... but it's not good either, IMO. Having to be super attentive to the sound means you have to comb every level very thoroughly and pretty damn slowly. Not only that, but the ones you've found already don't stop emitting a sound, so you better finish all of the stars in a level and not take a week-long break in between otherwise you might be in for some frustration.

I like that there is somewhat of a puzzle element to some of them, except most of them are really about extreme platforming precision, and there is no real clue whether the former or the latter is being asked from you for a particular star, especially since the camera doesn't give you clues like it would usually for normal stars.

But again, it's not terribly hard, just... slow. On the verge of being a little bit tedious.

Anyone other than Simba agree?

Woah, nice bump.

I agree. Honestly, even though I love the game, I got like two Green Stars and gave up. Maybe it's because I had just collected 120, maybe if I come back to it now it'll be more fun, but, yeah ... you have to be too precise, and explore/look around in a game that wasn't designed to do that.

Also, Star Wolf > Waluigi

EPIC BUMP!

@Pandareus I kind of agree, but I also don't remember having too much trouble finding 95% of them. Only a couple did I have to rely on the sound, most of the others were kind of in the "obvious" places, IE hard to reach spots, etc.

But I did get all 120 green and it was a fun bonus, if not amazing. And then the final two stars.

My arm still bugs me thanks to the last green star

I thought it was really fun...but after getting 120 stars, I don't really feel the desire to go back to it. I actually forget a lot about the game though.

It was a really good game...but I probably could've done without its existence. I definitely don't feel like it deserved the incredibly perfect ratings it garnered upon its release. It was a really good game but it never felt perfect at all to me. For me, it pretty much lost points from the get go for being so similar to the first Mario Galaxy.

@PogueSquadron

Lots of folks seem to agree that SMG2 received the scores that most publications wished they would have given to the first game. Makes sense to me, although I personally do like the sequel a tad more than the original.

@Orbital74 They do? But both games got pretty much the same scores?

@Zero

Most sites gave SMG2 slightly higher marks than the first. Also, there are quite a bit more reviews for SMG than the sequel, so it's hard to directly compare averages.

The green stars were fun to collect for the most part. A handful were annoying or painfully obvious. It was a nice diversion, and better than replaying the game with Luigi. I like that Luigi was unlocked and you could use him freely any time.