See? I'm not the only one.

I completely agree with everything Simba said. The game is great but it does seem too derivitave. It does kinda feel like an expansion pack. Presentation is MUCH worse. That goes a long way, and I'm just referring to cut scenes/story but EVERY aspect of how the game presents itself.

I don't get when people use the term "expansion pack" for stuff like this. Have you ever played an expansion pack? They're not full games, and they generally have nothing new. Galaxy 2 isn't even remotely close to an expansion pack. Even super basic sequels like say... Mega Man 10, aren't close to expansion packs.

But yeah, the presentation isn't quite as good, but I kind of don't care. The gameplay is brilliant. And the presentation within stages is awesome.

@Zero

Agree. Significantly more content than the original... don't know of any expansions like that.

Got 92 stars so far. I'm loving this game sooo much. The level design is amazing.

But there is a ton of new gameplay. I mean, the core dynamics in most every stage are completely new gameplay concepts. What expansion packs have you played that invented so much new gameplay?

It's more new than 99% of sequels are nowadays too, but that isn't saying much.

Well I don't know where you are. If you're still in World 1 it's probably way too early to have this conversation. If you're at say... World 4 or 5ish and still think there isn't really any new gameplay concepts, I really have no idea what to say.

Did you feel similar about NSMB -> NSMBW?

Or maybe a better question is, do you feel similar about same console sequels in general? I can't really think of many (or any) same console sequels this generation that have added more than SMG 2 has. I can definitely think of a lot that have added less, including one I think you would agree with (NMH 2.)

7 worlds, though the last world actually does feel like an expansion pack to me, and it is probably that 10% or whatever that Miyamoto claims is left over from Mario Galaxy 1.5...

Your perspective intrigues me. Just looking at the core gameplay involved, for instance, Viewtiful Joe 2 and No More Heroes 2 pretty much added nothing new. They may have felt different (and/or worse) in other ways, but they didn't really add new gameplay mechanics at all.

I can't think of too many other same console sequels I have played this generation, but as another example, Gears of War 2 was basically Gears of War in new locations to me. The only "new" stuff was the OMG PLATFORMING in the one area which wasn't actually platforming at all.

Pikmin 2 added a fair amount, but then, it's pretty much one of my favorite games ever (even though some hated the changes...)

Anyway, you may or may not feel differently by the end of the game. We shall see.

But 90-95% of the areas in Galaxy 2 are new as well. And then even the not so new ones often have new gameplay mechanics involved.

Unless you just mean general types of areas but in that case doesn't NSMBW have the same issue? Desert area... check. Ice area... check. Lava area... check. Etc. But even so, Galaxy 2 has a bunch of new area types not seen in Galaxy as well.

I'm honestly not trying to be confrontative, but I really don't see what you are using to single out Galaxy 2 here. You might be referring more specifically to the graphics and tech or something, like models and backgrounds and such, I dunno. I'm just talking from a gameplay perspective. It has way, way more new than most sequels do, and if it got there by rehashing graphics (which I didn't even notice, apparently) that works for me.

Simba:

But they didn't just use the exact same data, there is a ton of new stuff. In fact, I don't remember the exact numbers, but Galaxy 2 has something like 13? more galaxies than the first... so there already are 13 new galaxies for you. And that would be assuming that every galaxy in the first was reused, which they aren't. Just in the first two worlds I believe these are all new, not just graphics/theme-wise but they all contain new gameplay mechanics/power-ups not in the first game...

Yoshi Star Galaxy- Yoshi
Flip Swap Galaxy- Flippy things
Spin Dig Galaxy- Drill
Fluffy Bluff Galaxy- Cloud Mario
Puzzle Plank Galaxy- puzzle pieces? (forget if this is in the first game or not)
Boulder Bowl Galaxy- Rock Mario
Hightail Falls Galaxy- Speed Yoshi
Wild Glide Galaxy- Bird flying

And there are many more new gameplay mechanics beyond the ones introduced in the first few worlds (also unlike most sequels, which introduce a few new things early on and call it a day). Honestly, which expansion pack have you ever played that does this much? If one exists, it puts so-called sequels in the industry to shame.

Now, on the flipside (or Flipsville?), I just started God of War 3 and it has new models and new textures and new everything graphically / soundwise / etc. (of course, it's not a PS2 game like the others) but I played for an hour straight and there is absolutely nothing that wasn't in the PS2 games. I don't mean it feels similar, I mean literally every single thing action I have done was directly pulled from the previous games, except for a tornado magic which is new (I think?) that, effectively, works exactly like the electricity magic in the old games worked. I really don't expect much new in the rest of the game either.

This is how almost all sequels are nowadays, which makes it weird that you have such an issue with Galaxy 2, considering it just throws a bunch of new upgrades and gameplay mechanics at you right from the start... and then it doesn't stop throwing them at you.

The locked camera is annoying though, I'll give you that.

It was a joke man, lol. I'm fine with your opinion.

What is this expansion pack talk? I finished SMG 2nd run with Luigi a mere month before Galaxy 2 released, and the sequel feels fresh, creative, and immensely fun.

Simba if you aren't having fun after two worlds, I don't know what to say. Honestly, lost for words.

Edit:

I disagree with pretty much everything you said.

The "lack of presentation" as you put it, is welcome, because I can get into the action almost immediately. Game boots up, triple jump on to the switch in front of the wheel, aaaand we're off! I like that much, much more than exploring the observatory in the original. If you're going to make a hub world, make it interesting a la SM 64/Sunshine.

I don't care if the levels aren't joined together in any logical way. This isn't the 2D Marios. This is pure distilled Galaxy thrown at you in chunks of awesome. Every level presents a new challenge, the variety of things to do is simply staggering. You think the level design was great in NSMB Wii? Well ,as much as I LOVE that game, sorry to break it to you but the level design in Galaxy 2 destroys it. This is what the game is all about. Excellent level design boils down to serious fun. Somewhere you're confounding too many extraneous factors, and missing the point.

I understand how SMG2 could come off as a level pack, though. Simba's point about Nintendo reusing all the same assets is perfectly valid, and I did get a déjà vu feeling that I could never quite shake off throughout the whole game.

I still enjoyed the game. But there's no denying Nintendo here has reused assets in a way they haven't done in a Mario game since The Lost Levels.

@Simbabbad
Oh come on, my bad if that came out the wrong way. Please tell me how NSMB Wii's level design is better than Galaxy 2. From a creative standpoint, it's no contest in that regard. That's why I play the 3D Marios. I'll always prefer a sidescroller, but the level of creativity is somewhat subdued. They did a superb job of introducing new mechanics and stuff in NSMB Wii, but it still pales in comparison to the creativity of Galaxy 2.

As for the presentation, the game plays at a much quicker pace than the original. I finished up with 120 stars in a little over 20 hours, in the original that feat took me a good 5 hours more, simply due to filler.

I agree with Simba in the sense that Galaxy 2 feels a lot less special than the first, but you can't deny there's masses of new content. Every level plays differently, the gameplay is refined beyond the original, if every game was this good I wouldn't leave the house.

I did finish it feeling slightly underwhelmed though. Me, I like a little more story or at least the chance for more character moments in a game like this. Another complaint would be the world maps, that are basically branching lines across on a screensaver background. They aren't nearly as interesting as the maps in NSMBWii, or SMW where you'd move around the map, going into caves, swimming, climbing between levels. Some people talk about SMG2 as being the ultimate Mario game, the pinnacle from which Nintendo has nowhere to go... but for me it is at times too abstract, too much a bunch of ingenious junk floating in wacky space. I prefer more of a balance. There needs to be larger levels too, or at least places that feel like they exist in some kind of coherent fantasy world, not just a random bunch of crap floating around the sky. At times the feeling of the game world is like Super Monkey Ball: a completely invented place full of things and landmarks and characters you don't have any affection for. That's very much at odds with how I feel about the Mario series as a whole.

That little rant aside, the game does so many good things so well, that I can't help but consider it a massive success. But it's not beyond criticism.

@Simbabbad
I really enjoyed both games, so I'd love to have a discussion, or a comparison of the two. I think you misunderstood my stance, and maybe I did come off too harsh because well, I was shocked when I read you weren't having fun after the 2nd world. Because Galaxy 2 is one of the most fun games I've played, since NSMBW in fact.

I'll agree with you that NSMBW has the 1up on Galaxy 2 in certain areas, such as the sense of belonging, and storytelling. I disagree that pacing was off in Galaxy 2, I feel the game unfolds at an excellent pace, with the challenge ramping up towards the end, and daredevil comets providing a succinct challenge.

But you're right, for now we should put this on hold, until you've completed the game.

Simba, I think the problem is that you're doing the preliminary stars of each galaxy, and you simply haven't gotten enough stars to experience the genius of the game. After 120 stars, there's no way in hell that you can say that this feels like an expansion pack.

Let me just say that I also shared your opinion, even after a few worlds into the game. That's just the way the progression is. The reason Galaxy 1 seems better in this aspect is because the ideas that were presented were totally new to us at the time, so it had a greater impact/impression on us. So in Galaxy 2, the 'ideas'/'gimmicks' are immediately recognizable as the logic from the first game, and subsequently seem like just an expansion on that logic. But I'll tell you what, once all is said and done, the latter stars of each galaxy, the comet stars...yeah, the brilliance really starts to sink in. THIS is the better game, unequivocally. It's not an expansion pack. Expansion packs merely give you more content. Galaxy 2 literally overturns gameplay concepts and ends up being more brilliant than anything in Galaxy 1.

Having said all of that, New Super Mario Bros. Wii is still better than both of these games by quite a large margin.

Simbabbad said:

@Zero

You keep trying not to understand what I'm telling you. I'm not saying it's worse than other sequels out there in gameplay, I'm saying it feels exactly like a level pack, which it does. It throws new levels at you using the exact same assets as the last game without bothering to glue them together in any way.

But it has tons of new assets, which is what I'm saying. The new stuff didn't come from nowhere, it had to be coded in, and almost every area has new stuff. I admit I'm not super familiar with PC gaming, but I have played some expansion packs, and they never really add anything, they're generally just remixes that do essentially use the same code. This is a completely different case as new stuff is constantly being added in. New stuff that requires new code.

I think you're just not recognizing this because the presentation is so subdued next to the first game. And that is a valid viewpoint. You don't connect to the game because it feels like a bunch of levels with no context. Personally, I don't care much about context, the gameplay is (mostly) new and (mostly) awesome and that's 99% of what I wanted from this game. It's not like New Super Mario Brothers Wii really gives compelling context for its stages either.

I have to say Bowsers Gravity Gauntlet has to be the most well designed level I have ever experienced in a videogame. Simply breathtaking.

I don't know what to say really, you don't seem to take change to a series well, perhaps its like a severe case of nostalgia or something. Your complaints here seem very similar to those of No More Heroes 2. Maybe you just naturally don't like a sequel that strips away components of the original.