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Metroid Dread Discussion (Nintendo Switch) [game]
 
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Posted: 06/15/21, 23:21:36
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@nate38@Secret_Tunnel

Oh! Ah! Trying to claim the menu time as completion time?!?

Shenanigans!

Shame on you Nate!
Posted: 10/12/21, 01:42:21
@Secret_Tunnel Curses! Yeah I haven't bothered beating the final boss again with all the items. I assume nothing changes?

@Secret_Tunnel You forgot about the other one, which I liked better:
Raven Beak: "Foolish daughter. Close your eyes and sleep. Leave the galaxy to me."
Samus: "..."
Samus: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"


The ending:
Yeah it wrapped up a little more neatly than I would have liked. I was disappointed that Quiet Robe-X showed up and "cured" Samus-troid. It would have been a cool setup for the next game if this gross new Todd McFarlane-looking Samus had to learn to control and/or upgrade her awakened Metroid powers, fend off the Federation who should clearly see her as a threat/opportunity, etc. Or maybe it wasn't a cure at all, and it's just Quiet Robe's ability to control Metroids being passed to Samus via the X parasite that took him over, and she can just return to her normal form now. And why would an X parasite want to help Samus anyway? She's like an Ultra Queen Metroid at this point, why wouldn't the X just want this apex predator to die along with Planet ZDR?

Nice little story touch I saw someone mention:
Before descending below the surface, Adam does his super lame thing where he calls you "Lady." After that, "Adam" only calls you Samus because it's actually Raven Beak the whole time. Which I guess I should have realized, considering he's also constantly like "Oh that Raven Beak, you're not strong enough to beat him, he's the strongest coolest dude ever his plumage is so shiny and smooth"

E.M.M.I.:
These sorta didn't factor into the actual story at all, huh? That's fine, they're fun spooky encounters with cathartic endings where you get to shoot them with the Dramatic Cutscene Gun!
Posted: 10/12/21, 01:46:52
Damn you guys beating it already. Wow.

I am loving this Metroid game. Itís been awhile since Iíve played a 2D Metroid - or any game for that matter when if Iím not playing it - Iím thinking about it.
-
And Iím rusty. I have to be cause I feel I suck at it. Moving around ? Smooth as butter. Killing everything? No problem. 1st main Boss fight ? Excellent balance with challenge / gameplay but Iím getting stuck with navigation. More often than I thought I would.

I mean the map is way better than the pink boxes and white dots of Super Metroid but Iím getting turned around a lot - especially after the first main boss. I canít seem to move forward. It took me forever to blow away a wall after the first transport to the second world

And now Iím stuck again. Iíve hit all the switches I can get too and Iíve already gotten one missile pick up without the help of a Heat resistant suit power up because I was desperate to explore and try to find away out. Arg.

Itís the simple things that are stopping me. Iím missing something but I donít know what. EMMI is hunting me again but I now have the cloaking device. I know what I need to do. I just canít get there because Iím blocked by extreme environments or small spaces. Iíve hit every switch so far but I think I need to hit another one - I just canít get to it.

If you can figure out where I am I think I need a hint. Iím worried about seeing a walkthrough because it may spoil something. Arg. Itís a delicate balance. With lots of you farther then me or even beating it already it canít be something sinister that Iím missing. Maybe itís another hidden floor Ö
Posted: 10/12/21, 02:19:52
@Smerd

Hmm, I can't think of where you're at! The only time I got stuck like that was in the same place Nate described earlier in the thread, at the start of the third area. I know exactly where he's talking about, haha.

@nate38

Ending Spoilers:

Unfortunately, nope, nothing changes when you beat the game with 100%. Disappointing! I was hoping for at least a helmetless Samus, but apparently that's not in the game either.

Samus's scream felt appropriate to me too, haha. Two lines of dialogue in the whole game, one respectful declaration and one battle cry!

That's a great thought about Quiet Robe's ability to control Metroids! That's the main thing that bugged me about the ending, why would absorbing an X turn Samus back into her regular self? It's not like Metroids and X are Heartless and Nobodies. I assume the reason why he bowed to her and let her absorb him is because X retain memories from their hosts, so maybe he took over at that point? But then who was in control when he turned the EMMIs back on? Maybe Quiet Robe turned them back on so that she'd defeat them and get their powers?

One thing that was kinda cool in Other M was how there were certain subplots that the game never explicitly told you the answer to, and you just had to figure it out yourself. That energy seems to be in here as well. That's a good catch about Adam only ever calling you Lady in the intro, that's something I half-consciously noticed but didn't think anything of!

And yeah, I also thought it was weird how the EMMIs didn't factor into the main plot. I guess they're there to extract Metroid DNA from Samus. But that was another thing that surprised me about how the game was marketed, especially at E3, versus what we got. This is The Metroid Game About Samus Vs. Invincible Robots, but they had to continue this Chozo storyline too. It makes me wonder if future games will be less confident to have their own identities and feel obligated to tie into the overarching plot. Which is cool in some ways, but feels like getting strung along in others. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Posted: 10/12/21, 02:48:46
Update - found a way forward. Realized I could slide under this one thing - I felt ridiculous but proud I figured it out on my own.
Posted: 10/12/21, 04:55:47
100%! Got up extra early this morning to get those last few %. You guys are all way faster than I am, LOL!

Now I can highlight all of those spoilers and get caught up w/ the discussion.
Posted: 10/12/21, 16:40:54
@TheBigG753
Not me! 2D Metroids are so rare that I want to really stretch this out. I'm about 2 hours into the game (based on the in-game timer, but likely not the actual game time) and just beat the second boss.

It's really getting good now. I liked Samus Returns quite a bit, but MercurySteam upped their game here and fixed some of its problems--namely the melee counter is much more balanced and seamlessly incorporated, and the environments are much more interesting and distinct. Really enjoying the progression and a lot of the little touches, such as most recently, navigating an exploding, fiery room right before getting the Varia Suit, and going through the traditional Kraid statue before the Kraid fight, alongside otherworldly bellows from the boss as I was homing in on his location. The transitions between morph ball, crouching/sliding and standing have also never been better. I'm still hoping for a little more of an open exploration, but the game has already started to feel a good bit less linear so that's promising.

I'm less a fan of gating nigh everything behind a power-up. I really liked how the original and Super Metroid had a myriad of optional power-ups (such as the Varia Suit, Long Beam and Screw Attack in the NES game and Super's Spring Ball, X-Ray Scope and beam upgrades). It made replays and challenge runs more enjoyable when you're not by default getting everything to bypass the next lock-and-key puzzle. In particular, I don't see the need for generic obstacles like the ones requiring the Wide Beam to pass--I suspect the game itself would be improved simply by replacing all of these with a normal Power Beam Door.

My biggest complaint right now would be the music, or more specifically, the sheer lack of it. I mean, it exists but I really don't notice it, which is a shame because the world and animations actually have a good bit of personality. Imagine how much cooler the second boss would've been had we had a remix of the original Kraid's Lair theme during the fight.

Speaking of that though, wow! Awesome battle. They upped the disgusting nature of Kraid in this battle and Samus's personality shines through as well. I managed to finish him off with a counter and it was ridiculously over-the-top. This battle killed me a couple times and was great fun throughout. Besides the music, they really delivered in updating this classic NES boss.

Looking forward to playing more.
Posted: 10/12/21, 18:29:01  - Edited by 
 on: 10/12/21, 18:30:03
TriforceBun said:


Speaking of that though, wow! Awesome battle. They upped the disgusting nature of Kraid in this battle

Hah! I was bitching through that fight to a friend online and may have used the phrase 'festering asshole' more than once.

There may have been a screenshot accompanying it. You know what I'm talking about.
Posted: 10/13/21, 05:52:34
I'm absolutely loving the gameplay and exploration so far. The movement is so fluid (I skipped Samus Returns) and navigating areas is so much fun as you get new abilities. I can't wait to beat it and read all the redacted information!
Posted: 10/13/21, 19:42:02
@TheOldManFromZelda

Same. I've killed my 4th EMMI (including the first one they just basically hand to you) and the game's been a lot of fun. I'm not the hugest fan of these EMMI segments, but it does definitely feel good when you finally get rid of one.
Posted: 10/14/21, 00:06:39
Weighing in. Maybe halfway. So far really loving it. Not quite at Super/Fusion level for me so far but certainly a worthy game.

I like the EMMIs but they arenít quite as scary as I recall the SA-X being. I also agree that Iíve gotten lost a bit more than usual. It feels like these guys at MercurySteam are a little more committed to a kind of ďfind that one brick to break to progressĒ model of gameplay. I sort of seemed to have sequence broke a bit and got the ability to radar scan for breakable blocks a bit early, so thatís helped But I still feel like Iím shooting walls a bunch.

AlsoÖ there are living Chozo? Holy crap! Oh. Ok. They just killed him. Easy come easy go I guess.

Also hell yeah Kraid!

Whereís the scanning, Anand? 7.9

.
Posted: 10/14/21, 03:45:09  - Edited by 
 on: 10/14/21, 03:46:54
This isn't a huge complaint but I've been thinking about how a lot of people say the game feels linear but it doesn't to me, and I think part of that is because I keep being given tasks that I just... never really finish, before ending up in new areas? So it FEELS like there are all of these open threads I'm leaving behind? Even though there probably isn't anything else I can do about them at the moment? But it still FEELS like maybe I'm moving on too soon when I could be doing more where I was at?

For instance, in the 2nd area I get tasked with opening up the heat doors to make a path to the surface. Did I finish that? I'm not sure, but I haven't done anything towards that in hours at this point, and I'm several areas later and pretty close to the surface, so I guess I'm done with the necessary ones? But I don't recall being informed that I completed the task or anything, and I swear I still saw some closed doors last time I was there? So it just feels like it was kind of left unfinished?

Then in the 3rd? area I get told that I will need the gravity suit in order to progress deeper into the area. But... I'm several areas later (again, near the surface), and I still don't have the thing it told me I would need. Pretty sure I didn't miss it or anything, just not something you're supposed to get right away. Obviously GAME DESIGN-WISE they're probably going to send me back there once I get it, but storywise it's like, I'm almost to the surface, why was I told I would need something in order to progress deeper into an area when there was no clear need to progress deeper into that area to accomplish my goal, which was to get closer to the surface? Again, just feels like it was left unfinished?

Those are the two main ones I can think of offhand but there are actually a lot of connections between areas in this game and every time I go to a new area (or back to an old one) I always feel like I'm leaving a lot left undone for some reason, and it's not even totally clear to me that going to the new area is always the right path forward. For better or for worse.

@Guillaume @kriswright I like the EMMI areas but something about them feels not quite as substantial as I was hoping for. I've died a LOT in them, but they're also usually really short, at least to get to the next door out, so it almost just ends up like why bother sneaking around and trying to get all stealth and getting killed a bunch instead of just making a break for it. But that feels... wrong? Like that's not how you're intended to play? They even give you stealth powers!

I feel like I probably would like the areas even more if it was a little harder to get caught but they were a bit more substantial and required you to really work your way through instead of just get through 2 or 3 rooms and there is the door.
Posted: 10/14/21, 05:55:28  - Edited by 
 on: 10/14/21, 06:09:55
@Zero
I think you and I are near the same point. I suppose to explain the mention of the Gravity Suit, at that point, you hadn't yet met Quiet Robe and gotten a clearer path upward, so that became the main priority once it happened.

The EMMI sections are good. But, like, not really the main attraction for me? You know, in terms of it being the first thing they advertised and a huge part of the game's push (and even subtitle). They're decent changes of pace from the more contemplative exploration, but it feels like a big part of Samus's arsenal doesn't apply to the sequences, so I'm usually ready to get back to exploring once I tango with one a bit.

The exploration aspects are largely well-done. Solid environments, enemy design and atmosphere, generally great controls and some outstanding boss fights. I really have no problem with the "find the breakable block" gameplay, especially since you have so many quick options to reveal them and you can kind of get a "sense" for where there might be something most of the time anyway. It's not like Metroid 1 where you feasibly could feel that you need to shoot EVERY wall, ceiling and floor. And I get a little adrenaline boost when I find them. Like a juicy level-up in a cheap mobile game

Can't believe they set Speed Booster to clicking the stick though, and the left one, no less. L3/R3 are a blight and I wish devs would either never use them again, or use them extremely sparingly (like activating supers in Splatoon).
Posted: 10/14/21, 07:09:17  - Edited by 
 on: 10/14/21, 07:10:18
kriswright said:


Whereís the scanning, Anand? 7.9

Hahaha. I can't check because we lost the original TinyPic image you created, but IIRC, didn't we base Scan-Orr off a Chozo? (Goddamn, that post was over 10 years ago! We're old. )
I was thinking about that through the entire game. Like maybe Anand could pretend to be killing him here.

Amused me anyway.


@Zero

I think the issue is that the EMMI sections are kinda random. Sometimes I get caught right away, other times there's no killer robot nearby to get me, and as you say, you can just kinda run for the far door.

Wheras the SA-X sections of Fusion were specifically scripted with a 'solution' to avoid it. I guess thats where Mercury Steam's aim of giving the EMMI better AI than the dumbo SA-X came in. But as a result you end up with a more dynamic scenario that ends up backfiring and becoming too easy if you get lucky. Not really sure what the solution here is.

TriforceBun said:


Can't believe they set Speed Booster to clicking the stick though, and the left one, no less. L3/R3 are a blight and I wish devs would either never use them again, or use them extremely sparingly (like activating supers in Splatoon).

I bitched about that a little on Discord too. At first I wasn't triggering it properly and thought I had to hold it down as I ran, so I was supremely unimpressed. The toggle activation is a little better, but still why?. What was wrong with the auto-activation from the original game?

Clicky sticks suck ass.
Posted: 10/14/21, 10:18:01  - Edited by 
 on: 10/14/21, 10:19:15
The game is definitely funnel-y in its design. It's a lot like Fusion in that regard, where you go through each area very linearly the first time and then moving on to the next place you need to go, leaving stuff along the sides to come back to later. It's just maybe a bit less overt about it. It generally nudges you in the direction you should head in, while only on a few occasions explicitly directing you to go to a specific place. The only times where I wasn't sure where to go is when I backtracked of my own volition, which Dread doesn't really let you do very early on, but is more willing to allow for later on.

I definitely hit some points later on in the game where I thought I may have been doing things out of order. But I think all that really would have changed is if I stayed on the "funneled" path, I would have quickly hit a roadblock and known to go back and look for a new ability; instead, I decided to backtrack a bit and came across said ability without feeling like that was my main objective at the time. So I thought that was cool.
Posted: 10/14/21, 16:12:49
Speaking of shooting "random" tiles to find the way forward, I really enjoyed this video of good old David Jaffe whining about them, and a fairly strong rebuttal.

Posted: 10/15/21, 02:29:29
David Jaffe seems to have discovered that histrionics over Nintendo games get him attention. No such thing as bad press, I suppose...
Posted: 10/15/21, 02:56:54
I dunno, before today I would have associated Jaffe with being the lead for the first few God of War games, which is a somewhat positive thing. Now he's more on the level of "why can't metroid crawl"
Posted: 10/15/21, 04:22:00
Beat the game on Monday and just 100% that file a few minutes ago. Absolutely brilliant game.
Posted: 10/15/21, 07:16:38
Game good.
Posted: 10/16/21, 00:15:31
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