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The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD Discussion (Nintendo Switch) [game]
 

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Posted: 02/19/21, 21:20:32
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Secret_Tunnel said:
And, to me, this framerate looks wrong. It's too... something. I'm hyper-sensitive to that crappy motion smoothing effect on TVs, sure, but everyone can agree that that blows; but, as far as I can tell, I'm the only one who thinks that high framerates in games--I'm talking 120 FPS PC games, here--look really strange sometimes. This isn't an issue with any other game I've ever played at 60 FPS; why is it bugging me with Demon's Souls? Is it the animations? It reminds me of those Ocarina of Time mockups.

Footage of Demon's Souls running at 30 FPS just came out today, and I think it looks so much better. And that's just it; why even include a "cinematic mode" in the first place if there weren't people on the dev team who thought it looked better? Why is this a matter of debate? No one says, "oh yeah, run Uncharted 4 at 30 FPS, it'll be a huge improvement." So what's the deal here? Is there some, uh, refresh rate... hertz... thing... going on?



...this has the same issue!! Why does it look sped up!? Why am I the only one who sees it this way!? How do I fix myself?
Posted: 02/19/21, 21:26:08
I'm not crazy!

Posted: 02/19/21, 22:06:49
Only thing I ask for is the ability to disable or at least significantly limit Fiís nonsense. She takes this game down an entire grade letter herself, ruining lots of puzzles before the player even has the chance to think about them. Otherwise, a $60 enhanced Wii port is going to have to be a pass.
Posted: 02/19/21, 23:39:15
I don't mind the framerate smoothing, although one of my favorite visual elements about the game seems diminished or muted (the watercolor effect on background environments).

By coincidence, I'm actually replaying SS right now for the first time since release. My kids love watching me play, and I'm about 3/4 through the game. It's held up pretty well, but I'm fine playing it on Wii again rather than shelling out full price for this version. I think Nintendo's getting a little too cocky with the price here, in fact, and I'm starting to get tired of upscaled versions of games I already bought a decade ago.

True to its aerial theme, SS is a game of highs and lows. Fi as a character is fine, but the execution of how much she talks, the sluggish text boxes, and even her little animation of popping in and out all slows the game down tremendously, not to mention the awful "low battery/shield/hearts" dialogue that pops up every time. And what's up with each collectible having the animation and description every time? You'd think the oldest and smartest game company in the world would be avoiding these pitfalls.

That said, there are some awesome sequences in the game. Dungeons 4 and 5 in particular are a real treat, the story's solid, the music is decent, I've always enjoyed the tense Silent Realms, and the whole Timeshift Stone idea is just genius from both a gameplay and lore standpoint. And as stated, there really are some major new additions to the series that got their start here, such as the Stamina meter (and a more athletic Link) and gathering materials to upgrade items.

But yeah, I think just replaying it on the Wii is fine.
Posted: 02/19/21, 23:47:16  - Edited by 
 on: 02/19/21, 23:48:17
Posted: 02/20/21, 00:18:16  - Edited by 
 on: 02/20/21, 00:21:36
@Hinph
@TriforceBun

There's a really great linear action-adventure game buried underneath Fi and the rest of Skyward Sword's chatty nonsense!

Posted: 02/20/21, 20:12:02
@Secret_Tunnel

Boss Keys was such a good series. Game Maker's Toolkit is one of my favorite YouTube channels.
Posted: 02/20/21, 21:05:11
@Secret_Tunnel
I feel like the game is being pulled in two directions; its weaker moments feel like focus-grouped committees deciding that the Wii needs a more accessible Zelda game. But rather than dumbing down the gameplay, they just had a game-wide tutorial telling you everything you needed to know. As a result, I think the game itself is still strong, but it gets bogged down by having moments spoiled with sloooow-moving text and is always afraid the player will get stuck. Surprisingly, the game's challenge level is still satisfying, particularly in Hero Mode.
Posted: 02/20/21, 22:23:20
@Secret_Tunnel

For sure. I really like the design of the game and how they made the areas between dungeons like little dungeons themselves. Iíd love to replay the game without the excessive handholding and will happily drop $60 on it if the problem has been addressed. Iíve only played the game once and have forgotten most of it since, so it would be pretty great. If Fi is the same, then Iíll pass as I can get similar results just playing it again in the Dolphin emulator down the road... and even in stereoscopic HD 3D which would be neat.

@TriforceBun

What bugs me is that there was a perfectly obvious solution that Retro Studios figured out a decade earlier. By all means, include the in-game guide when players are stuck so they can move on without having to head to a walkthrough online, but make it optional to disable for people who enjoy puzzles in an action adventure game. Retro also didnít have the solution pop up without giving the player some time to at least try to figure it out. Stupid know-it-all Fi would start backseat puzzling the second you stepped in a room like an obnoxious ten year old. Then Iím supposed to be so sad when she says her farewells to Link later? Get out of here. I like my Master Sword better when itís mute.
Posted: 02/21/21, 00:40:36
I wrote a greater blog post on the whole Nintendo Direct but here's what I had said about Skyward Sword so far. Seems relevant to the thread, lol.

-----------------------

A remastering of The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword was a long-rumored game and I am really glad to see it finally show up. Let me quickly preface that upon the initial reveal, I wasnít that blown away. The game didnít look that great and because I had been expecting this, I was jaded. I was also a bit jaded because just before this reveal, Eiji Aonuma announced there would be no news on The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 2 just yet. So seeing this at the end of the Direct had me a bit sullen. This is relevant for a couple reasons. Now that I was rewatching the Nintendo Direct and seeing the trailer again, I realize the improvements that are being put into this. The graphical differences are pretty astounding. If you go back and look at the comparison that GameXplain put together, the differences are clear. The 60 FPS makes a nice difference in cleanliness of the motion but the graphics are so much richer and crisper. The original had a slight warm haze to the game which now is gone. The models are so much cleaner and refined. The detail is pretty much the same, but in updating the resolution, everything feels better. Skyward Sword on the Switch looks like how you thought it looked when you played it on the Wii. That ten year difference really was a bit warped in my mind.

Nintendo managed to port this game over and they did it with some grace. The motion controls found in the original are now mimicked or improved with the joy-con. It makes me so glad to see Nintendo continuing to be strong with motion control gaming. I loved the novelty of this Zelda for its controls and to see myself able to recreate that again is important. I do hear rumblings that there might be some issues with left-handed players and the joy-con setup but I hope the game is going to be fun for everyone. I feel like, even though I am right-handed, I would still be able to play in the reverse. I canít prove this though. I really liked the story in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, but havenít gone back to replay it in the decade since it first releasedÖ not that I remember anyway. This is one of the most under-played Zeldas in the whole franchise and I am stoked to go back in. The stand-alone $60 price tag is a bit of a disappointment but it was an expected one. Whether or not this means there will be a Zelda 3D All-Stars Collection with Ocarina of Time, Majoraís Mask, The Wind Waker, and Twilight Princess remains to be seenÖ but I think Nintendo is going to milk these all for full value if they release them on the Switch. For The Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, Iíll probably pass on those unless significant improvements were made again. I have those on the Wii U and I just donít want to buy yet another release in this generation. The Ocarina of Time and Majoraís Mask remasters were on the 3DS but unless they looked stunning in HD or were put in the same double pack. Throw us the bone NintendoÖ start helping our wallets out pleaseÖ please?

One last thing I need to say. I love that in this trailer they went back and used the shot of Girahim with the crazy tongue. They had that in the original trailer if I remember correctly and it was shocking then. It was shocking again now but it made me laugh and honestly brought up the nostalgia factor. Girahim is such a wild foe in the Zelda universe and I really did love battling him. He was a true challenge and his meaning in the grander scope of the story is exciting to re-live. This remaster comes out in July 2021, which honestly makes me feel like a Breath of the Wild 2 release for November could still be possible. Come on NintendoÖ just do it!


Posted: 02/21/21, 03:21:38
Game is already the number one best seller on Amazon! Nintendo sure is back in the money printing business with Switch. Itís actually really amusing watching quick and easy ports sell as well as some of their most expensive games they develop over years.
Posted: 02/21/21, 03:34:12
@Hinph

Disappointing for us fans but I guess stuff like this really is going to ensure Nintendo isn't Nintendoomed any time soon.
Posted: 02/21/21, 03:59:11
@DrFinkelstein

Yeah, I'm okay with it. Somebody paying $60 to play this game for the first time is likely going to get their money's worth and people like us who may be like "eh, probably don't need to revisit this one quite yet at that price" aren't really losing out on anything. I've just been encouraged by the fact that the new Nintendo president hasn't done anything to really hurt the company and seems to respect their legacy. He even recently said that the Switch successor "must" be significantly different, and there's nothing more Nintendo than that. I miss Iwata but the company still seems to be in pretty good hands!
Posted: 02/21/21, 11:17:02
@Secret_Tunnel Yeah Skyward Sword ranks at the top of the OOT-style Zelda games for me. I never cared for the exploration aspect of 3D Zelda all that much, so I was happy to see it replaced by high quality linear combat/puzzle courses. It's like the opposite of how I feel about 3D Mario, haha.

While I have been missing motion control showcases of late, the stop-and-go hand-holdy Fi Pacing of Skyward Sword is probably enough to keep me from buying the remaster. Maybe they'll tone her down though! Fingers crossed.
Posted: 02/21/21, 18:00:52  - Edited by 
 on: 02/21/21, 19:26:41
nate38 said:
@Secret_Tunnel Yeah Skyward Sword ranks at the top of the OOT-style Zelda games for me. I never cared for the exploration aspect of 3D Zelda all that much, so I was happy to see it replaced by high quality linear combat/puzzle courses.

Ugh. You're the worst. You're basically the Anti-Ploot.
Posted: 02/22/21, 11:32:06
Skyward Sword + Soundtrack CD + Gold Wiimote = $70

Skyward Sword HD $60 + Hylian Joy-Cons $80 = $140

OOF

@TriforceBun Yeah, if all else is equal besides the graphics, I'd be okay just playing it on the Wii.

@DrFinkelstein A left-handed option is at the top of my list of things I'd like to see added or changed, that would certainly tempt me to buy it again. Even if they have to mirror the whole game for it like they did Twilight Princess, it'd be worth it.
Posted: 02/22/21, 20:44:25
For me, SS had the worst story in the series (so many plot holes and lore contradictions), the worst partner in the series, terrible pacing with too much filler between dungeons, and extremely lackluster exploration. It also had terrible swimming controls (and I wasn't a big fan of the flying controls either), not particularly interesting sidequests or minigames, no new items, and the music was so forgettable to me (outside of the main theme/Ballad of the Goddess).

But on the other hand, SS's characters (Fi and the Imprisoned notwithstanding) were extremely engaging, I loved the combat and menu controls (and the item controls to a lesser extent), the dungeons and bosses were mostly solid, and the Rupee/item economy and upgrade system were FANTASTIC (finally making collecting Rupees feel like a worthwhile task again).

So SS falls pretty much in the middle of the series to me. For everything I liked, there's something I disliked and vice-versa. If the story is to remain unchanged and no additional story/dungeon is added, I don't have any reason to double-dip with the game, but I'm glad people who hated the motion controls are finally able to get a non-motion controlled version that they will hopefully be able to enjoy.
Posted: 02/23/21, 01:31:14
A game like this absolutely benefits from being upgraded to 60fps, especially in regards to its motion control. It just feels more responsive for pointing at things. I'd be excited to play it. Yeah it looks weird but I'm sure it looks great once your eyes adjust. (Honestly I think any of these games look better at higher fps. The only exception could be something really cinematic like The Last of Us for me. With Zelda, l mean its cel shaded, but you'd never mistake it for actual hand animation, so I don't think it really benefits from a locked 30fps.

Either way, Link's jumping animation in these old 3D Zeldas looks bad no matter what frame rate it runs at, amirite?


But yeah...ANOTHER port of an old game at full price is really annoying as a longtime fan. I get why, but it's still a bummer.
Posted: 02/23/21, 02:54:11  - Edited by 
 on: 02/23/21, 02:56:59
Iíve pre ordered this port but Iím still on the fence.

With Wind Waker HD I was very excited - first it looked amazing and second, there were a lot of gameplay enhancements - it really made Windwaker more fun to play.

I havenít played SS in 10 years and I really enjoyed it. All the negative points Iím hearing from all of you are valid - but the great points in this game that have also been discussed here made this one of the best Zelda games I played.

There is such a wonderful opportunity here to greatly improve or omit many gameplay mechanics that slowed the Wii version down. Iím afraid that Nintendo put so much more effort into Windwaker HD because it was being made for a struggling console. The Switch doesnít have this problem. Iím crossing fingers here that SS on switch is not just an uprez with a faster frame rate
Posted: 03/02/21, 07:09:19
@Smerd

Same here. I'm worried it'll get the bare minimum of upgrades. The graphical clarity is nice, I get that. However I want Nintendo to put more effort than an HD refinement into this. Supposedly the motion controls work better too but I didn't have much trouble before personally.
Posted: 03/02/21, 13:32:13
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