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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion (Nintendo Switch) [game]
 
9.17/10 from 11 user ratings

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It's finally here! Or will be, soon enough!

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Posted: 12/06/18, 17:12:46  - Edited by 
 on: 12/06/18, 17:13:09
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NOW AND FOREVER IN THE ANNALS OF ALL TIME THE UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD BAYBEEEEEEE

Posted: 08/02/19, 05:50:30  - Edited by 
 on: 08/02/19, 05:52:49
Kamikazee is my new favorite thing even if I keep accidentally doing it when I don't intend to.
Posted: 08/02/19, 09:24:17
Hero is soooo fun. Love the randomness. Love the criticals!

@nate38
Nice, dude!
Posted: 08/03/19, 01:39:57  - Edited by 
 on: 08/03/19, 01:40:33
Great job Nate. What was this whole deal?
Posted: 08/03/19, 01:49:59
@DrFinkelstein It's just the new Online Tournament thing that got introduced in the Hero patch. It's even more limited than the one from Smash Wii U (there's only one tournament ruleset going on at a time, last night was 1v1 Final Destination No Items) but it can be fun to try out now and then I think.
Posted: 08/03/19, 02:35:21
Overall, I like the Hero. Heís pretty fun to play, but I have some major complaints. The inclusion of critical hits is a boneheaded decision. If theyíre going to go that far, add critical hits to the entire roster. Or at least give the FE cast critical hits too, since those were present in the FE series. Itís just so goofy to add such a mechanic, especially considering how balanced the game has been this far. The other thing is Heroís down B. Like the critical hit, I resent the random mechanics. They make him very unfun to fight against. And when Iím playing as him, I donít know what the fuck these moves do thanks to the dumbass names each move was given. Without sheer memorization, how am I supposed to intuitively figure out what the difference between a whack and a thwack. And what about krackle insuinuates an ice attack? Iím more inclined to associated the word krackle with logs on a fire than a freezing slash.

Aside from crits and the down b, Hero is a fine addition. Unfortunately those are pretty major problems. Itís a bummer.
Posted: 08/03/19, 07:06:01  - Edited by 
 on: 08/03/19, 07:06:42
Okay, yeah. Fuck the hero. I just played s game where he killed me at 30 percent with the black hole move. My character just died on the spot, no knock back or anything. Then I come back and he deals 60% in one move with that explosion which drains all his magic. I still won the game because his fundamentals werenít very good. But the fact that somebody can randomly get those two spells back to back and basically take a stock and a half is ridiculous.
Posted: 08/03/19, 21:01:49
I want to KISS HERO on the FACE. I just brought my boy into Elite Smash and it's just so satisfying. He's breathed new life into Smash for me, even though he seems to be having the opposite effect on @Hero_Of_Hyrule! The randomness doesn't bother me at all, even when playing against him. He's almost like a gambler type rather than a traditional swordsman, but requiring a lot of quick thinking and immediate tactics. Already he's one of my favorite Smash characters ever <3

I can see the logic of giving only Hero critical hits (and the JRPG menu)--the DQ series pretty much invented these concepts, at least in video game form!

And as a Dragon Quest vet, I love that everyone's talking about Kaswoosh and Kafrizzle and Oomph and all the other crazy spell names!
Posted: 08/09/19, 01:48:13  - Edited by 
 on: 08/09/19, 03:13:37
@nate38

Awesome!
Posted: 08/09/19, 03:02:19
lol




There's a big debate going on over whether or not to ban Hero from competitive events. As someone who likes watching competitive Smash, I hope he stays, because all the RNG is hilarious to me as a viewer, and more character variety is always fun. As someone who very infrequently attends competitive Smash events, I can understand that it'd be incredibly annoying to get put into a situation like this:
Posted: 08/18/19, 16:57:08
nate38 said:
I hope he stays, because all the RNG is hilarious to me as a viewer, and more character variety is always fun. [...but] I can understand that it'd be incredibly annoying to get put into a situation like this:

Agreed, I dunno what to think of him! I love controversial design decisions like this, makes things way more interesting... but after a certain point it's gonna stop being interesting. Maybe a good compromise would be to nerf Hero so that your expected value of winning with him is slightly less than 50%?
Posted: 08/18/19, 21:41:28
@Secret_Tunnel I think the best solution is just to tone down his highly RNG effects, both the beneficial ones and the harmful ones.

Critical Hits can keep the extra damage, but the knockback should be the same as it would have been for a non-crit.

Giant/Mini effects from Hocus Pocus should change Hero's size, but not his damage/knockback given or taken. That way each has clear advantages (more reach but a bigger target) and disadvantages (less reach but a smaller target), without turning the game into Next Hit Wins.

Magic Burst should never be able to KO, considering how huge and inescapable it often is, especially if the opponent is off-stage. Keep the massive damage, but make the knockback very low.

Whack and Thwack...uhhh....no idea!


Alternate solution is just to make it so he doesn't recover MP when he hits an opponent. If Hero's spells are going to swing the game so much, MP management should be a much bigger factor. And I'm guessing Attack commands don't refill Hero's MP in the Dragon Quest series, so that'd just be one more token in the Authenticity pile, right?
Posted: 08/18/19, 22:14:51
I'm not convinced that Hero needs to be weakened or anything. A small faction of people want him to not compete because of the randomness factor, but that line seems arbitrary to me when we've already got elements of randomness in the game in characters like Peach (Turnip), Luigi (Misfires) and Game & Watch (Judgement). It's not like everyone's dominating with him online or in tourneys. Sakurai and his team balanced his big attacks behind other elements, such as his fairly slow normals and smashes, requiring MP or being a bit of a crap shoot in Command Selection.

Hocus Pocus is a massive risk and hugely unreliable; if the opponent gets a Super Mushroom like in that Snake video, you just need to back the heck off and play super-defensively for a while. I would've hung out on the ledge and abused invincibility and Snake's Cypher.

I'm just not seeing the problem. And it's only been, what, two or three weeks? I say don't touch him!

But it's partly because Hero has already breathed new life into Smash for me and has become one of my very favorite characters in the series <3
Posted: 08/19/19, 00:50:50  - Edited by 
 on: 08/19/19, 00:52:24
@TriforceBun Yeah it's only been three weeks, and there are already way more clips of Hero doing silly RNG stuff at tournaments than all the other RNG characters combined!




(this guy apparently got two Thwack kills in two Grand Finals in two consecutive days, lol)

Like, as a viewer this stuff is hilarious to me. But I'd be pretty miffed if these happened to me at a tournament...(well, I'd be miffed if I actually cared about winning and losing a fair game.)
Posted: 08/19/19, 02:57:09  - Edited by 
 on: 08/19/19, 02:58:17
@nate38

I mean, for every crazy vid of Hocus Pocus going oh-so-right or Whack/Thwack beating the odds, there are hundreds of matches we don't see where nothing of particular note happens. These kind of situations are really rare and either carry a high risk (like Hocus Pocus, which has put me to sleep a few times) or aren't particularly quick and can be shielded (Whack/Thwack). That Inkling was doing a risky recovery herself, going high without a fast-fall or air-dodge.

What I see this is another case where fans want Smash to be something that it's not necessarily designed to be. Crazy things happen! They happened before Hero and they'll happen after, and I'm not even talking about stage hazards or items.

I feel that Hero's spells still require guts, risk-taking, fast reflexes and good strategy. To eliminate such a fresh and unique character from the rotation because of the off-chance of something bonkers happening is myopic IMO, especially this early on. Like in Magic: The Gathering, Hero's spells are basically his deck of cards and it's up to you to make the best of them.
Posted: 08/19/19, 07:07:51
@TriforceBun Sure, recovering on stage is not the safest choice in most situations, but no other character in the history of the series could have KO'd Inkling in that situation except maybe Game & Watch's Judge Hammer, and that 1) requires G&W to jump up at the Inkling, which is much easier to react to than Hero's menu, and 2) has a far smaller hitbox than Thwack, which is apparently HUGE, judging by that video.

Crazy things happen in Smash, but Hero is by far the craziest character yet. Again, I'm fine with that because I'm only casually competitive, but I can definitely see why hardcore competitive players are less happy about it.
Posted: 08/19/19, 17:08:01
Yeah, I'll agree that Hero is the craziest character yet, which is saying something in a world of Ice Climbers, Olimar, Little Mac and Rosalina.
Posted: 08/19/19, 17:35:27
Isn't it kinda weird that Dragon Quest got so much love in this game when Final Fantasy barely got any? I thought Square was supposed to be really stingy about this stuff! Maybe it's because FFVII isn't exactly a representative example of classic Final Fantasy tropes?
Posted: 08/19/19, 19:57:45
@Secret_Tunnel Maybe there are still Square and Enix factions inside Square-Enix! The Enix faction is happy to give its all for its pals, while the Square faction keeps everyone at arms' length and broods in the corner, dozens of belt buckles glinting in the shadows...
Posted: 08/19/19, 20:21:07
@nate38 Not sure what I just saw there? Was that a critical hit? It will really send you off at 0%?

I think that happened to me recently too. Definitely not a fan of nonsense like that.
Posted: 08/20/19, 03:22:05  - Edited by 
 on: 08/20/19, 03:26:52
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