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Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright Discussion (Nintendo 3DS) [game]
 
Fire Emblem Fates: Birthright on the 3DS
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06/17/15, 18:26    Edited: 06/17/15, 18:30
 
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@gojira Yeah, I'm more concerned about skills myself.
04/15/16, 01:08   
So I'm on chapter 24 of Revelation.

I will say that I've heard there's a way to do what is essentially a perfect run of this chapter and if you manage to achieve that you can get a pair of boots.

Luckily I know exactly how to explain how this goes without spoiling anything.



(Oh, and if you're playing Classic you'll love this one because you don't even have a quick save to abuse.)

I'd hate this chapter a lot more if it wasn't named, seemingly out of self awareness, Days Lost
04/15/16, 06:58   
@gojira

I started on on Conquest so I'm interested to see how I'll feel about Birthright. Maybe my opinion will be a flipped version of yours?
04/15/16, 16:39   
@GameDadGrant

So, do you think you'll like the freedom to grind and whatnot?
04/16/16, 06:34   
@GameDadGrant I actually wound up losing interest in both Birthright and Conquest because I couldn't escape the idea that Revelation was basically the definitive version and that I'm kinda just playing side stories more then anything.

I'm almost certainly going to go back to Conquest. Birthright, where I stopped had somewhat fallen in the old routine of "Oh no, (Insert ominous sounding name for your enemy kingdom) is doing something here, I have to go to the port, there's no way they'll get to the port."

"Oh no, the evil kingdom got to the port."

To be fair though, despite me expecting otherwise Revelation is just as willing to kill off loveable characters as the other two, just ask Scarlet.
04/16/16, 08:07   
Edited: 04/16/16, 10:30
@pokepal148

The stories of the Fire Emblem games have always been pretty vanilla. Most of the ones seem to have you as a young prince/princess of a kingdom that's under attack by a once friendly neighboring kingdom. Turns out the evil king was being controlled by some dark power. Which is why I like Path of Radiance. You don't play as royalty. You're just a band of mercenaries caught up in a war. It's just a slightly different perspective that I found refreshing.

I will say in Conquest's favor, I do like how you're basically being sent on suicide missions because your father wants you to die.
04/16/16, 15:33   
Fire Emblem games often have simple plots, but Birthright and Conquest have outright bad narratives. Conquest is just terrible. The writing is also pretty bad in both of these games. Past Fire Emblem games have been serviceable at their worst, with Radiant Dawn leaning too much on ridiculous plot devices, but none have reached these lows. Conquest's story was unbelievably stupid.

I've been trying to stay out of this thread because I don't like posting so much negativity on here, but I'm amazed by how much I dislike Conquest. Birthright is okay at best, but for the most part I'd lump these in the MSGV and Metroid Other M camp where I'd rather just pretend they don't exist.
04/17/16, 05:58   
Edited: 04/17/16, 06:02
@Hero_Of_Hyrule

Huh, that's surprising. I hear largely positive things about these games--not overwhelmingly so, but good for the most part.

I'm starting to lose a bit of interest in Birthright (near the very end) so I'm hoping Conquest can rekindle that interest. Between the kids, supports, and castle stuff, the game starts to feel like a grind, especially when the kid chapters are much more difficult than the main story. Makes me start to feel like I have way too many characters and don't need more, especially that late in the game.
04/17/16, 06:17   
@Hero_Of_Hyrule

Well, I really don't care about stories in video games in general. I know that's probably weird for most people. I mean I appreciate when a game has a good story, but it is probably at the bottom of what I care about in games.
04/17/16, 20:09   
@gojira

No, that's certainly understandable. People go into different games, franchises, and genres expecting different things. And what we think of a given game is going to heavily rely on what we want or expect from that game going into it. I can see how someone would like Fates if they don't care about story or characters or have different tastes in those writing from my own.

Personally, I've found myself caring more about stories in games as time has gone on. For Fire Emblem, the story doesn't have to be great, so long as I can get behind the characters, their interactions, and the writing. That's an important part of the series for me. Path of Radiance is my favorite Fire Emblem game in large part because I think it has the best writing and characters in the series. Similarly, I like Shadow Dragon more than most people because despite its lack of characterization, the limited writing is it has is superb. Fates and Awakening fall near the bottom for me because, among other reasons, I dislike their narratives, writing, and characters.

I'm not trying to say that people who like the story of Fates have bad taste or anything like that. It's just that for me, this narrative and characterization aren't what I want from Fire Emblem. This isn't what I want from the series, but for others this kind of writing hits a sweet spot for them. There are some things in Conquest's narrative that I think are bad mostly independent of personal taste, but I understand if people can look past them. And I can appreciate these differences while disagreeing with them, just like how I can appreciate that plenty of people don't care much about the story at all. We all like different things and want something different out of the games we play.
04/17/16, 22:55   
Edited: 04/17/16, 22:58
@Hero_Of_Hyrule I actually found the characters in Fates to be slightly better than in Awakening.
04/18/16, 01:47   
I agree that some of them are, but the characters from awakening didn't do much for me either.
04/18/16, 02:04   
Edited: 04/18/16, 02:05
I beat Birthright but I haven't had much interest in starting up Conquest right now. Probably because Bravely Second just released but I did not care much about the characters or story in Birthright. I really think I found Stella Glow to have been the better game for me in this genre. Though it's not as punishing as Fire Emblem, it was overall more satisfying to play and had some fun twists and amusing characters.
04/18/16, 19:17   
I've beaten Conquest. I enjoyed this game more than Birthright. It has a much more classic Fire Emblem feel. There's only so many missions to get xp so you need to focus on certain characters. But I still don't like the promoting mechanic in this game. It feels like it was designed to be min/maxed.

Now on to the third game. What's it called again? Revelation?
04/23/16, 03:12   
@gojira

Yup. Revelation.
04/24/16, 05:53   
I was actually very impressed by Conquest storywise. It has it's faults but the entire thing just came together very nicely.
05/09/16, 01:29   
They did plenty of things right with this one and fixed problems I had with Awakening.

They balanced the skills (Skill x 2 on Vengeance was silly)! With the Ninja/Maiden classes they've made it so you can't have one super grinded unit take on everything on his/her path, like you could in previous games (I'm looking at you, Seth). The AI is better! This game looks good! Pairing up was so stupid in Awakening that you had absolutely no reason not to use it pretty much always. They fixed that, too! I'm having a lot of fun switching my units' formation between paired up and supporting eachother in adjacent spaces. You can't grind in the Conquest version (the one I have) and every little decision you make counts, from what weapons you buy to who you choose to get EXP; Just like pre-awakening FE games. Also, you can't grind forever, unless you buy eternal seals and those are crazy expensive. The Hard difficulty in this game is actually very challenging, unlike Awakening's. The way they chose to balance the weapons and their material is fantastic. The support conversations are fun and even clever, sometimes. There are a few character designs in awakening, like Virion and Owain, but think Fates adds a little more salt to their "glorified anime-stereotypes". Have you tried grinding for gold/EXP/weapons with DLC maps? It's hard! You risk losing an ally if you want to leave with a handful of rewards. There are other mission objectives besides "Route the Enemy" and "Defeat the Boss", at least in the Conquest version. The maps are well thought-out and feel super rewarding when you finally clear them.

This game's soundtrack is also very good:



I love coming up with ridiculous weapon names like "Thrundrügdalm" or "Vollüdrnfreya" just so Odin can have his +10% chance of landing critical hits on his attacks. I love not having to grind the kids because of the Offspring Seal. I love how staves can be used offensively again and the memorable plays I did involving entrap.

I never played FE because of the story. I started playing through Rekka no Ken and because I liked strategy and clearing maps. The plot is just a bonus. It's there and if it's good, I'll enjoy it, but if it isn't, it'll definitely not affect the fun I'll have with the game. Conquest's tale isn't so bad you can't simply see and like whatever is in the rest of the package, in my opinion. I can definitely see why you'd feel disappointed over that, but I don't think you were looking at the right franchise to place your expectations on the story. Fire Emblem wasn't known before for its' fable. Plus, there is so much effort and care put into this game I can't even remember all the good things I've picked up on. It's silly to judge and condemn Fire Emblem Fates as a mediocre game for the writer's mistakes when the rest of the team did such an amazing job with everything else that makes the series great.
05/09/16, 19:26   
@HammerLord

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts! Welcome back!

I don't think my expectations are misplaced as far as characters go. Characters are an important part of the series regardless of the narrative itself, which often tends to be straightforward and simple. Even a Fire Emblem game as light on dialogue as Shadow Dragon was able to win me over with its quality writing that made sure the little dialogue that was present was well done. And the introductory text for each chapter really made the world come to life and gave us some insight into what Marth was thinking and feeling. If nothing else, Marth felt well rounded and human, which is more than I can say for just about any character in Fates. If you don't care about the characters or writingthat's fine, but I don't think the importance I place on characters and writing for this series is unreasonable. I can forgive a subpar story in a Fire Emblem game, but lackluster characters and writing are going to have a negative impact on my experience of the game.

I also had problems with the gameplay. Some maps were great while others were frustrating or too encumbered with gimmicks for me to enjoy. It comes out to about 40-60 for me.

And even if I loved the gameplay, that wouldn't change the fact that I have to overlook the story, writing, or characters in order to enjoy it. And that's frustrating when the story and gameplay of past Fire Emblem games have improved each other, rather than necessitating that I pretend one part doesn't exist. Even if I go through the game without reading a single line of text or using a single optional feature, it will still bother me that I am playing a game in which the camera pans around Camilla's ass and boobs in cutscenes and everybody thinks Corrin is unassailably splendid.

I don't have to explicitly see those things to be bothered that they are in the game at all. Partially because those are some of the things that drive me off from enjoying the story, but also because they play into non-textual trends in the design of the game, like the shoehorned children and thefanservice-y character designs. So I would have to ignore the text, gameplay features, and character designs to avoid what bothers me about Fates.

But whatever. I've spent enough time talking about why I don't like these games and I don't want to ruin any positive vibes you have going. I sold my collector's edition on ebay and it'll ship out soon. It seriously feels like a weight off my shoulders to get rid of this game that bugs me so much and to walk away with more money than I put into it. It's time for me to move on from Fates. I'll try not to post any more here unless I have something new to say.
05/10/16, 01:42   
Edited: 05/10/16, 01:43
@Hero_Of_Hyrule

I understand your disappointment is genuine and I'm not saying you're wrong about your thoughts. Consider my post as an attempt to make you see part of the positive side of the game, as in I would have liked to share good experiences of it with you. Seems like you were excited about this one. It's really a pity you didn't enjoy it.

Also, do tell us next time when you decide to sell something. I could have taken that collector's edition off of your hands.

And thanks! It's good to be back.
05/10/16, 05:09   
Edited: 05/10/16, 05:10
I heard that with the proper setup you can make Ignatius into a ridiculously powerful Wyvern Lord so I went and set it up and then used the logbook to bring him into my save file.



He's a Wyvern Lord with as much defensive power as a General, 10 movement (I had to set up a separate save file for this, of course I'm going to give him the boots from the path bonus) and a surprisingly high chance of landing criticals. What the hell have I created.





And my favorite part is, when he doesn't trigger a critical, he ends up triggering Astra which strikes five times and then he triggers a crit.

Oh and I gave him a Brave Ave (it wound up replacing the hammer) because he really needs more ways to just demolish everything.
05/14/16, 22:58   
Edited: 05/15/16, 01:21
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