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The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D Discussion (Nintendo 3DS) [game]
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Welcome to the official discussion thread for The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask 3D on the 3DS!

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Some things in life are inevitable. Death. Taxes. The moon falling from the sky and obliterating the world. And of course, remakes of popular video games.

With the recent announcement of Majora's Mask 3D, Nintendo manages to cover the entire list. (Unless your video game prices don't include sales tax, in which case, lucky you.)

Thankfully, it seems that this will be no lazy remake. According to a recent interview with Eiji Aonuma, work on Majora's Mask 3D began in June 2011 shortly after development on Ocarina of Time 3D wrapped up.

With any luck, this means we'll be getting Majora's Mask 'Master Quest'. Feel free to post any new info in this thread as it comes to light.

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Posted: 11/10/14, 23:00:00  - Edited by 
 on: 11/10/14, 23:49:52
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Y'know, I've finally figured out what this whole conversation reminds me of:

Stan Lee: Hold it son. Wouldn't you rather have an exciting action figure?
Database: AHHHH, but Batman only fits in my Batmobile.
Stan Lee: Ha-are you nuts? The Thing fits in there perfectly. (Stuffs The Thing into the Batmobile.) Look he's fitting right now.
Database: AHHHH you broke my Batmobile!
Stan Lee: Broke or made it better?

Broke. Definitely broke. Stop trying to break the Majoramobile with your Thing-filled save-scumming mitts! I will whack you away with a Deku Stick if I have to .
Posted: 11/12/14, 08:54:08  - Edited by 
 on: 11/12/14, 08:55:47
I just hope they don't dumb it down too much, and if they do, I hope they'll at least include a "classic" mode where the game design is largely untouched. If they can make the game more accessible while retaining everything that made the original great, good on 'em, but they could just as easily screw it up.
Posted: 11/12/14, 15:27:45

"Stan Lee came back?"
"Stan Lee never left. And I'm beginning to think his mind is no longer in mint condition."
Posted: 11/12/14, 16:59:04
Smerd said:

Keep that damn fairy piece in the same place at the beginning of the game (Shadowlink touched on this already). That was painful.

I don't think it was that difficult, was it? Eh whatever, if it makes it easier for you guys then fine.

Slow the default days/nights down to what it's like when you find the song that slows time. Make the song slow it down even more.

No. Just no. Isn't a normal, full day like 15 or 20 minutes? C'mon now.

Save anywhere the hell you want. Seriously. Make each save count as a hard save. Keep the owls as warp points. Keep the banker that keeps all your rupees. Keep all the 'rules' that are involved with the rupees etc you lose when going back in time.

Like as a 'Quick Save' feature? I'd actually be okay with this. I feel 'Quick Save' is a good feature to have for a portable game.

Pacing: I really don't know how to change this..but I felt like I wasted so much time doing sidequests.. it was a lot of trial and error because if you discover something and you realize you don't have enough time to explore your 'guess' you have to deposit your rupees,warp back in time and try again. Oh but what if you need to wait till nightfall? Shit now I have to wait all day (figuratively)... I believe there is a song that fast fwd'sd the day to night but not till much later..

You can do the fast forwarding to the next morning or evening from the very beginning of the game by talking to the scarecrow in the basement of the observatory. The sidequests was a major part of this game - they absolutely can NOT mess with them.

Direction: I don't want the game to to hold my hand..but it's the only Zelda game I've played where I've become stuck several times over on many different quests....And I'm one of the people who figured out the water temple in Ocarina with no issues... like at all.

You're weird!
Posted: 11/12/14, 17:20:12
I think it's absurd that people want the developers to change something that they designed like that for a reason because they don't like it. If you don't like the game as it is, don't play it. And if they add in changes then that is clearly what they want. Arguing over what is 'better' is stupid and silly and gains nothing. The developers will do what they see as best. And if they change it, we have the original to play. And if they don't, then the people who didn't like the game still won't like the game and if they REALLY wanted to play it then they would learn how to play it. If you don't want to follow the rules of the game and learn the rules of the game then don't play it and don't act like the rules need to be changed to accommodate you.
Posted: 11/12/14, 18:35:03
I agree to an extent but decisions made for a console game aren't necessarily the decisions that should be made for a handheld game. I think they should probably make certain concessions to allow for more portable play.

Some of the changes people are making really aren't that big of a deal. I'd love the option to reset to a particular day rather than have to reset to day one and then play songs to jump to the third day. Is it more immersive the original way? Maybe? Is it a huge pain in the ass sometimes? Absolutely.

Also, the Stone Tower statue thing needs to GO. By far one of the worst moments in any Zelda game.
Posted: 11/12/14, 19:43:25
PogueSquadron said:
I agree to an extent but decisions made for a console game aren't necessarily the decisions that should be made for a handheld game. I think they should probably make certain concessions to allow for more portable play.

Like 'Quick Save' you mean? I'm down with that.

PogueSquadron said:
Also, the Stone Tower statue thing needs to GO. By far one of the worst moments in any Zelda game.

Eh? What's all this, then?
Posted: 11/12/14, 19:51:53
GameDadGrant said:
PogueSquadron said:
I agree to an extent but decisions made for a console game aren't necessarily the decisions that should be made for a handheld game. I think they should probably make certain concessions to allow for more portable play.

Like 'Quick Save' you mean? I'm down with that.

PogueSquadron said:
Also, the Stone Tower statue thing needs to GO. By far one of the worst moments in any Zelda game.

Eh? What's all this, then?

I think he's talking about the tedious puzzle with the effigies at the top of Stone Tower to access the dungeon.
Posted: 11/12/14, 20:51:51
PogueSquadron said:

Also, the Stone Tower statue thing needs to GO. By far one of the worst moments in any Zelda game.

Yep, that's something they could definitely look at streamlining. Somehow.
Posted: 11/12/14, 21:07:08

Is that the part where you put the Elegy of Emptiness to thorough use?
Posted: 11/12/14, 21:39:38
I think the streamline menu system will help with that part. It was much like the Iron/Hover Boots in OoT, a simple menu fix made them suck a lot less in the 3DS version.

They could even add Wind Waker HD's addition of not having the song play through all the way the second time.
Posted: 11/12/14, 21:41:07  - Edited by 
 on: 11/12/14, 21:41:30

I don't agree with this. It assumes the developer is infallible and what they say goes. They want as many people as possible to play and enjoy their game. They might not realize what keeps people from enjoying parts of it. You are right though, that the developer will ultimately make the changes and people will decide whether or not to play because of them. The question is though what changes should they make because I guarantee you Nintendo wants as many people as possible to play and enjoy Majora's Mask.

Stone Tower probably needs a tweak to the playing of the song to create the statue. I also remember the seahorse bit before Great Bay temple feeling a bit lacking. I'm not sure I can remember specifically what the problem there was. Not enough visibility maybe?
Posted: 11/12/14, 21:55:51
Stephen said:
. The question is though what changes should they make because I guarantee you Nintendo wants as many people as possible to play and enjoy Majora's Mask.

So a developer should sacrifice their vision of what they want their game to be, simply for mass market appeal?

You'll love the Call of Zelda game I started to design on the last page then.
Posted: 11/12/14, 22:49:02

None of what has been (reasonably) suggested in this thread compromises what Majora's Mask is. Especially if it is optional.
Posted: 11/12/14, 23:02:20

A) I disagree. Drastically changing the save system alters the game. Granting the player significantly more time than already given alters the game. And the 'optional' argument is a copout. That just lets you change everything whilst claiming you aren't really changing anything anyway. A bet each way that renders all discussion pointless.

B) That wasn't your argument. Your argument is that Nintendo wants to create mass appeal. I'm showing you the ultimate endpoint of that argument. There are other considerations at play than simply mass appeal.
Posted: 11/12/14, 23:11:57

It alters it for those that want it altered if it is optional yes. That's the point.

Of course there are other considerations. But you and anyone else arguing against these changes has to resort to drawing similarity to fundamentally changing what the game is which no one as of yet has suggested. Making the save system better or being more transparent with certain aspects doesn't do that. It would be like if someone told you that no that fairy you couldn't find was crucial to the game and mustn't be changed to always be in one spot. It undermines the very point of having characters go about their own schedule. Or, more plausibly, what makes the game great isn't that the fairy moves around, the shitty camera when you fight Gyorg or the archaic save system. It is much more than that. Those things though get in the way of people enjoying the game when they otherwise would probably enjoy it. That's why there are changes. That's why there should be changes.
Posted: 11/12/14, 23:27:11  - Edited by 
 on: 11/12/14, 23:28:45

It might be like the fairy situation if someone can make an plausible argument as to why the fairy is randomly moving between two locations. And no, the fairy isn't on a schedule. There was no appointment for it to keep. You don't see it travelling from one location to the other like other townspeople do on their errands. It's just random.

But unlike that situation, we've explained why altering the save system to 'hard save anytime' from an 'interrupt' save changes the game. Why being able to rewind time every few minutes as opposed to rewinding the entire timeline destroys the Groundhog Day-esque lesson the game is trying to impart. - Namely to learn from your mistakes so you can do better next time.

Ironically, you have yet to explain why you feel you personally need these changes, given that you claim you wouldn't exploit it. Any time you want to explain that little discrepancy, I'm all ears.

As for transparency, it was plenty transparent the first time around. The manual explains it clearly, and it's also explained ingame:

You can save your progress and
quit here. When you
reselect your file, my face will
appear by your file name.
This indicates that the next time
you reopen your file, you'll resume
playing at this very place and
time with your current status.
Warning: If you reopen this Owl
File, then reset without saving at
an owl statue, you'll lose the
progress you've saved here...
The next time you open the file,
you'll restart at Day One with the
status you had when you last
saved using The Song of Time.
Save your progress up to this
point and quit playing?

If anyone still has an issue with how the save system works at that point, then the problem lies with them, not the game.

The problem we have here, is you need to be able to make a distinction between cosmetic things that streamline the game (your camera angles & the statue puzzle in Stone Tower count) versus things that fundementally change the point of what the game is trying to achieve.

Unfortunately all these comments about requiring various changes to ensure 'mass appeal' indicate that preserving the feel of thegame appears to be secondary. This is not something I can agree with. If you want a fundementally different game, then play a different game.
Posted: 11/12/14, 23:52:36  - Edited by 
 on: 11/12/14, 23:53:36
Get better at the game then. Learn from your mistakes. Now you know the fairy moves around. This is crucial to the game's message of wasting your time.

I've read people's issues with the game. I find it unfortunate that people who might otherwise like the game get turned off of it because of relatively minor things. Especially so since even with its flaws I still view it as the best Zelda game. And also because the way these changes would alter the game could be done in such a way that it doesn't impact my enjoyment of the title whatsoever.

If you can reasonably argue why the game shouldn't be altered to be more enjoyable for others when your experience is left untouched then by all means do so.
Posted: 11/13/14, 00:05:57
Because that "archaic save system" ties entirely into the game world and the logic of Majora's Mask.

Like I said before, the hardsave at any hour-any day change is much like taking Ocarina of Time and completely changing the Temple of Time Young Link / Adult Link mechanic. We can all agree this is essentially the heart of Ocarina of Time. Originally, you needed to travel back and forth to it in order to move back and forth through time. You hit a road block as Young Link? Go there, pull out the sword, and come back as Adult Link. Why not completely remove that mechnic from the game? Why not just let the player progress with every item as Young Link or Adult Link? That way, no matter which avatar they are, they can advance? Better yet, since I like how the world changed, why not just give me a button that allows me to age or de-age those 7 years whenever I wanted. I beat the Young Link section of the Spirit Temple, hit that button and I'm right there as Adult Link.

The reason why is because it completely flies in the face of the game world's logic. Which, if I'm not mistaken, is a huge reason why people still praise Majora's Mask to this day. The entire premise of the game is that you have a non-stop 72 hour period in order to tackle your enemies and save Termina. To quote *shudders* Colin from IGN;

Majora's Mask boldly removed that feeling of safety and leisure. No longer were you in Hyrule. Now, you were in Termina, and there's a real problem there: the moon is crashing towards the planet, and you only have three days to figure out how to stop it. Time never stops moving in Majora's Mask, and neither does the never ending need to keep trekking forward, solving problems and puzzles, and understanding that ultimately, you won't fit everything into a three day period. You can't. That's part of the fun. Before long, the Song of Time would have to come in and save your hide. "Did I get enough done? Did I do what I had to do?" Those were the questions every Majora's Mask fan asked him or herself while being swept back to moment one.

This is where Majora's Mask true, undeniable brilliance comes into play. You're going to run out of time, not once or twice, but over and over again. You can manipulate time and slow it down, but you can never stop it from moving forward. The idea isn't to travel around Termina like you would Hyrule; the idea is to do what you can before resetting time and trying again, watching as some of your actions end up with permanency in a constantly replayed world. It's about extracting every movement and action out of every second.

This is exactly where the save system comes into play. Time is ever flowing (that Sheik forshadowing). It's the foundation of which Majora's Mask is built. You walk out into Clockdown as Deku Link, the clock is right there, the moon is overhead, and everything makes sense instantly. You are not the master of time, you merely have various methods to bend it a little. You can slow it down, you can warp some hours ahead, but it does not stop for you. At best, you can reset your doomsday clock and try again from the beginning. You need to hardsave your file? You play the Song of Time, you reset back to Day 1, and you go from there. Because that's when and where your journey actually begins. You need a temp save for 12:34 on Day 2? Hit up an owl statue, but realize that at no point will you ever get to go back to 12:34. As soon as you pick up, the clock picks back up, and you can't go back.

If Nintendo wants to give people the ability to save anywhere, fine. Make it apply the same rules as the owl statues. It's a temp save that gets wiped as soon as you pick up. They don't need to destroy the game's logic so people can enjoy it. You shouldn't be able to go back comfortably in Majora's Mask. It isn't meant to be played like Ocarina of Time.

Or else we'd be asking why Nintendo never fixed A Link to the Past to have the mirror send you to the Dark World, instead of needing to track down unmarked warp points scattered around Hyrule. Or any other number of things "wrong".
Posted: 11/13/14, 00:06:06

Yes and you can still have that feeling! That's the great thing about options. This wouldn't be them removing your ability to play the same way you always have. Gameplay systems often fly in the face of the games logic. In Ocarina if you died you would have to start the whole game over as Link doesn't have the ability to rewind time to an instance when he was dead. Why do you keep all your items in Majora's Mask but not the ammo? Why does a bomb bag get to time travel but not a bomb? Because it would be a shitty practice to make you go get the bomb bag every time you wanted to blow something up. Having to redo a bunch of stuff you've already done is not something that is fun. Nintendo knows this to some degree which is why you are able to quickly beat a temple again with a lot less work than you did before. It's why warp points exist.
Posted: 11/13/14, 00:19:43
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