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Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate Discussion (Nintendo 3DS) [game]
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10/26/13, 17:45 Edited: 10/26/13, 17:47
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I'm playing it Grant!
I'm only like an hour in, so far I'm a little disappointed, not because it isn't fun but because it's Armature so I expected more polish, there is some cool stuff about it but it's pretty rough around the edges, and I'm not sure I'm digging how the camera and level layout works, I feel like it jumps between 2-D and 3-D too much (perspective wise), sort of the same way I felt about Metroid Other M, both of those games would have worked better if it just stuck to a 2-D perspective ala the old-school Metroidvanias. Aslo, the camera keeps panning in to give close ups of Batman but his character model looks like garbage, it's okay when the camera is zoomed out but they try too hard to be like the console games when it comes to framing the fighting and action, in the PS3 games Batman looks like a badass so large on the screen because you can see every detail of his suit and all his cuts and bruises etc. but on the 3DS he's a blocky mess and the textures are stabbing my eyes with N64-sized pixels. I'm wondering if the VIta version looks a lot better, maybe I'll download that one to compare. I do like having the second screen for the map and waynetech stuff but I'm not sure it's it's 100% necessary.
I love the comic-book style cutscenes, they're beautiful, but... hey wtf no 3-D? Pshaw! And whoever does the voice for Catwoman really overacts, she's annoying! |
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If anyone is interested in this game and has a Vita that is the way to go, it looks and sounds much better. It's seemingly the exact same game with only a few minor differences, but the presentation is night and day. I also think the detective mode/analyzer works better on the Vita because you and just directly touch things on the main screen and it will automatically go into the wireframe/x-ray vision mode and give you information about whatever you slide your finger across. Sadly, there is no camera control via the 2nd stick (not even a little) which is wasted IMO, they could have at least let you pan around the screen a bit, but I guess they wanted to have parity between the versions and didn't feel like supporting the CPP, too bad.
But damn, in terms of graphics, dat Vita. It's gorgeous. And for whatever reason (maybe is simply because it's much louder and therefor clearer, or it could be the level of compression) the music sounds amazing, I'm assuming it's borrowed from the console score because it sounds fully orchestrated (or at least very good use of samples).
EDIT: Having the map on the bottom screen is really handy though, gotta give props to the 3DS for that, not sure it that can sway the graphics whore in me though, the Vita version just looks stupidly good on the crisp OLED screen with deep blacks and rich colors and with hi-res textures. When are OLED TVs going to become affordable?! |
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@GameDadGrantThe cape looks atrocious, it's an abomination. It looks a lot better on the Vita, though it's still horrible. I think it looks fine when it's zoomed out and in 2-D, the camera should stay fixed like that the whole game! Have the camera swoosh around and trying to frame the action like it's a fullly 3-D game is just confusing and annoying. It's like it's trying to pretend it's the console game, gimme a break! Besides the graphics and the camera I have some other issues as well, for instance I feel like batman's movements are slow and stiff, I think the timing in the combat is a little wonky and unresponsive, and even moves like the roll don't always register. The map is poorly designed (a top down map in a 2-D sides-scrolling game, really?) The game feels rushed and unpolished, it probably was. Despite all that I still love the fact that it feels like a freaking Metroid Prime game in terms of the scanning and exploration, that makes me really happy. I'm about 4 hrs in now, seen a lot of the map, there are some cool sections, the environments are pretty well done, very detailed and atmospheric. I'm still playing on the 3DS although I feel like it's the inferior version, why? Streetpass that's why! I'm definitely going to have my 3DS with me at all times in my bag, gotta complete my journal in Flower Town, and there's only room in my bag for one giant handheld, the poor Vita get's left at home! Man I hope this game does well for Armature, I'm not so sure the Arkham franchise was the right choice for this kind of game (the combat doesn't translate well), but I'd love to see Armature make an original IP of this nature, or hey... what if Nintendo had them make a handheld Metroid? Hmm... could be some bad blood there. |
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@GameDadGrantThe 3DS is the lead platform for this title yet the 3DS is lacking the 2nd analog stick, it would be kind of hard to play a full 3-D Arkham game with no camera control, especially for fans of the series who are used to playing a certain way, even if you could get it to work it would feel like a huge (and entirely unnecessary, if it wasn't for Nintendo's absolute refusal to think about what developers besides themselves might need in a system) step backwards. That was probably why they chose 2.5D, out of necessity. But beyond that, 2.5D is awesome, I'd love to see some 2.5D Metroid-style games on the 3DS, just look at how incredibly awesome Guacamelee is, there's a game that does everything this game does but better, and it's essentially the same formula. If anything, Armature tried to get too 3D (IMHO), it starts to feel like an old Resident Evil game where you're never quite sure which direction to press to get to where you want to go, it's bizarre. I just played a section where you were in a big room shaped like a square donut, and Batman could do a complete 360 around the entire room if you just hold "right", he'd walk to the corner make a sharp turn, the camera would get behind him and all of a sudden you were pressing right to move "forward", I kept instinctively pushing forward to move forward, but no... Bats would just stop, you have to press right! Ugh! It's just needlessly complicated. I've said it before and I'll say it a million times, this game works much better when it sticks to the zoomed out 2-D perspective, when it tries to get fancy it doesn't "ooh and ahh" it's just pisses me off. The few exceptions to that have been the boss battles, some of them have their own unique perspective and so far they've been smarty designed and made sense, for the most part, it would be hard to give an example with spoiling so here's one from about 2 hours in: when you're fighting Deadshot, you're looking at it from Deadshot's perspective, literally down the sight of his sniper rifle, its pretty cool.EDIT: I feel like I'm being a little too hard on Armature, I see what they were trying to do with the camera system, they were trying to take the 2.5D thing to the "next level", to make it feel more dynamic, it's a lot like Other M... so if you liked the way that game work you might like this better than me, though I will say Other M didn't go as nuts with the camera angles, it usually kept it so you intuitively knew which direction to press to get Samus going where you wanted to. Anyway... I sound like I hate this game or something, and I don't, I actually really like it, if it was any other developer I'd be much more positive. But this is Armature, I expect a hell of a lot. The detailed and moody environments and lighting they nailed. The exploring, scanning for secrets, collecting and upgrading, nailed. Does Batman feel like a badass? Yep. Lot's of things they did right, but there are also some pretty big flaws. |
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@deathly_hallowsEh, I don't buy that "it needs a second analog stick or it'll confuse the fans" excuse. They're already disorienting the fans by changing the game to 2D - why not try and keep it as close to the original formula as possible? Again, I'll point to both Revelations and Dream Drop Distance - neither required the second analog stick (though they did make it available) but they played fine without it. If Armature really wanted camera control without the requirement of the second circle pad, then they could have just mapped that to the touch screen. Worked well for Resident Evil and Monster Hunter, IMO. Oh well, whatever. I'm not too hung up on it. I'm cool with 2.5D too - I really enjoyed my time with Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate, for example. That game maybe should have been full 3D as well, but I complain less about that because I feel Castlevania is best in 2D. |
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@ZeroYes expectations were different, and even though Metroid Prime controlled great for a puzzle-heavy, platformer-heavy, exploration game it probably suffered in terms of sales from not having dual-analog even way back then, that was a huge turn off for many people who after Halo expected to be able to move and look around at the same time. And IIRC even Retro was in favor of using a dual analog set up but it was NCL who mandated the use of a single stick because they didn't think gamers would be capable of using two sticks at the same time. But again, that was 2002, it's rapidly approaching 2014, the number of people who still hold onto this "one stick" mentality are rapidly shrinking, gamers expect (and rightly so, IMO) to be able to control the camera in a game like Batman Arkham Asylum/City/Origins. Sometimes you don't need to "think outside the box" to come up with solutions to problems that wouldn't and shouldn't exist if Nintendo was more in tune with the needs of 3rd parties and gamers, especially western 3rd parties and gamers. |
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