New details on this year's announced Wii U and 3DS games.

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Jargon said:

@TriforceBun

I think there's a bigger audience for SM3DW than there ever would be for a Galaxy game.

Probably, and I'm sure this is Nintendo's reasoning. Here's the thing, though--Nintendo's still trying to tap into that wider, casual market, but they just tried that last year with NSMBU and it honestly didn't really help that much. The guys Nintendo are trying to win over right now don't really trip over themselves trying to get a system for New Super Mario Bros. or 3D World.

Sales for 3DW might be higher than SMG3. But that's a big might, and that's assuming the market would work the same way for the Wii U as it did for the 3DS (which on its own is flawed logic; 3DL released in different circumstances, for a different platform, for a different price, and a lot of people who bought it are currently underwhelmed by 3DW). More importantly, though, the Wii U really needs a game right now that people will respect and take notice of; a GOTY type title. The Wii U has way too much negativity around it, and I think the importance of a killer exclusive game can't be understated at this point, even if it doesn't quite make as much money as 3D World.

And honestly, I'm still on the fence regarding 3DW whereas I'd be first in line to buy a new 3D Mario, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

@TriforceBun

First of all, I don't know why 3D World can't be a GOTY type title. Look at EAD Tokyo's track record and keep in mind how much better Nintendo's console games usually are compared to their handheld games.

But more importantly, I don't think you can really compare 3DW with NSMBU. Even the biggest NSMBU fan will admit that the game is not far different from NSMBW in terms of experiencing something new. 3DW however can offer something that no one has ever experienced before and I think that is much more likely to convince someone to pick up a new console than something they've already had a taste of on the Wii.

NSMBU's biggest problem is that NSMB2 came out 3 months prior. That was bad timing on Nintendo's part.

Jargon said:

@TriforceBun

First of all, I don't know why 3D World can't be a GOTY type title. Look at EAD Tokyo's track record and keep in mind how much better Nintendo's console games usually are compared to their handheld games.

But more importantly, I don't think you can really compare 3DW with NSMBU. Even the biggest NSMBU fan will admit that the game is not far different from NSMBW in terms of experiencing something new. 3DW however can offer something that no one has ever experienced before and I think that is much more likely to convince someone to pick up a new console than something they've already had a taste of on the Wii.

I guess my disagreement boils down to the italicized part. From what I've seen of 3DW, it just looks like an up-rezzed 3DL. To me, the Paper Mario/Luigi's Mansion-esque static viewpoint and blocky, smallish levels aren't nearly as appealing as a fully 3D roaming Mario title. It just feels kind of archaic. And yeah, Wii owners didn't get a 3DL, but I imagine most Wii U gamers have access to a 3DS...or if not, don't see a compelling reason to buy a Wii U over a 3DS for its Mario game.

There's some assuming here, but I think the tepid reaction to this game illustrates my point. And yes, this is EAD Tokyo we're talking about, so it's possible I'll be eating crow in a few months if the game ends up being amazing. But I expected the next Mario to really push the limits of platforming like SM64 and Galaxy did before it, so in that regard, I just can't get excited for another Mario game that strongly resembles an earlier one with co-op as its big selling point. Incidentally, the clear pipe thing is kind of cool, but the fact that they're touting a level design element as one of the game's new features makes me think there's not really a lot of exciting new stuff to show with it.

And that's not even getting into (the complete lack of) GamePad use. I don't see why this game even needs to be on the Wii U as opposed to the 3DS.

@TriforceBun
I'm not sure they touted the clear pipe as a key feature, it's just an example. And believe me, it will be used awesomely later. I hope and believe you and me and everyone else will eat serious crow. Also, as I just mentioned, it seems Nintendo doesn't even know how to show off their own system and games well this time around. It's like they're lacking confidence or something, I don't know. Them making mention of the clear pipe only means it's a new little element they wanted to highlight. There will be so much more. But that's Nintendo's secrecy and new found "lets not show much of our games anymore" stuff rearing its head.

We all know the game will be great, just how great is the question.

3D World will be freaking amazing.

I now return you to your regular broadcast.

@TriforceBun Four-player co-op works a lot better on Wii U over 3DS since everyone doesn't need to have their own system and game. The higher resolution also helps see a lot more of the level, which makes it easier to see all players in multiplayer. These may not seem like much, but for me it's the difference between playing it multiplayer as opposed to only single if it were on 3DS. Beyond that, we've seen maybe 1% of the game, so it's a little early to claim it as something that could be a 3DS game.

PogueSquadron said:

Maybe the market is big enough to keep the price at $350....but is that a risk worth taking?

What's the risk? That you sell less consoles this holiday, and have to make it up later once you drop the price?

I mean, Nintendo isn't going third party or something, even if the Wii U flops the whole generation.

@TriforceBun

I also would prefer a bigger Mario game (not Galaxy 3, but either SM64-2 or Sunshine-2. I had enough Galaxy) but at the same time playing NSMBU with my wife and two of our friends and also trying the game out at Best Buy has convinced me Super Mario 3D World is going to be something special. Something really special when you toss in 4-players all on the same couch. It's going to be one of those amazing multiplayer experiences. Will it be Galaxy? No, because Galaxy is a great single player experience. It's just different, that's all.

And I will stand alongside you and wait for the inevitable Big 3D Mario Game that we'll get down the road. The wait will be tough, but a little less so since we'll truly be enjoying Mario 3D World in the meantime. I sure hope that game has the big open worlds of 64 and Sunshine, because I think I'm ready to say goodbye to the linear Mario levels, for a little while at least.

Yeah but you could've said the same thing about the 3DS, no? Maybe they didn't need to lower the price of the 3DS, and $250 was a good price point, and they would've made more money with their heavy hitters coming out.

But, the price drop combined with great games really started setting the 3DS on fire. Then the XL came out and the 3DS has turned out to be an awesome platform with a lot of awesome games on it.

I'm just arguing that they could keep the price the same, but I think it's worth the investment of a price drop to excite the userbase. Like you said, Nintendo isn't going third party any time soon - I think they can afford to make the investment if it means they can secure a userbase of owners that are excited about buying software. Nintendo itself is fine...but the Wii U needs help right now. Even with the games coming out, I'm not sure they've done the best job convincing people that the Wii U is worth $350.

If they didn't have great games coming out in the next 6 months I would have said it needed a price drop but as it is, with the amount of games coming out it has enough to make the system worth the price point.

Nobody wanted console 3D marios to turn into 3Dworld. If it sells more it's only because it's robbing deprived 2D mario fans.

@Renjaku
I have said previously, I doubt this is the canonical sequel to the 3D Mario games. Still feels like a stopgap game.

But why not hedge their bets? I'm not saying they can't sell hardware and eventually grow their userbase, but they've been down this road before - it was called the 3DS, and it was all worth it.

I really don't think that even with these great games that people want to spend $350 on a Wii U. The games are just too similar experiences to what people already have. I'm sure you can say the same thing about other consoles as well, but from a technical perspective (not just graphics) it feels like they're doing way more. The perceived value just isn't there at $350 IMO.

But can they afford to take an even greater loss on the Wii U? Sure they have the money for it but investors will not be happy in the slightest if they start taking massive losses.

@Pokefreak911
I agree. There will be another Wii U Mario. And it'd be idiotic to have ANOTHER in the same style without big changes.

As far as we know only the basic was (was) taking a loss. Between cost reduction in manufacturing and the yen getting a lot weaker, a $250 Wii U w/ game could be sold at a profit by this year. But obviously Nintendo wants to let the impression they're bleeding on Wii U's continue. They've been quiet since the yen plummeted.

@PogueSquadron I get the feeling Nintendo regret the 3DS price drop. After all, they didn't even wait to see how it'd do when Mario games came out. That's probably one of many reasons they are hesitant to drop price now.

It's a tough decision, and not one I'd want to have to figure out.

@TriforceBun

You're ignoring the part of the equation that can't be experienced on Wii or 3DS: Multiplayer. It's a big deal. It's been the bread and butter of Nintendo consoles for 3 generations. It's completely new and I think it'll be big. And as Mop It Up says, it could certainly not be done right on 3DS, not with any expectation of the multiplayer being a big selling point.

@Pokefreak911

Canonical sequel? What does that even mean for a Mario game? You realize there's not exactly an overarching story, right?

@Jargon
Hehe I know that, quit your whining
I was trying to find a way to state another 3D Mario game and get it to fit with my sentences. Leave me alone, me sleepy.

@Pokefreak911

Haha I was just afraid you were going to say Mario 3D World is part of the EU or something

Honestly though, as much as I love the Galaxy games, they don't feel particularly Mario-ish compared to the classics. 3DWorld definitely does. Why not take the Galaxy style and build a new IP around it and let Mario do Mario. Then we can, ideally, get two AAA 3D platformer franchises from Nintendo instead of one.