@shinriley
Quit trying to jinx Nintendo, dude.

@Simbabbad
I agree that the physics do look worse. But I was more annoyed by the beginning part of the video where he's like, "Yeah, people have said they enjoyed Sonic Rush and whatever, but they're wrong, see this other video about the physics blah blah blah." I don't like when people take this uppity "I know more about this game than you do, and if you enjoy it, you're wrong" stance, and it turned me off of the guy from the beginning. Well, that and the fact that he's pirating the game, and the Genesis game. The momentum-based points he made are good, but I just find the dude to be an unlikable Comic Book Guy type that has this repelling sense of entitlement.

Also, am I the only one that doesn't really look forward to Sonic, ever? Sonic himself was kinda fun back in the 90's (in terms of character and his design), but I just can't bring myself to care about any of his games that aren't Sonic 2 (which in itself doesn't measure up to stuff like Mario, Yoshi's Island, Kirby Super Star, DKC2, etc). That's probably just me, though--I get sort of frustrated with the ring/life system and the general lack of maps, backtracking and saves.

@Simbabbad I still didn't notice it while playing. Isn't that what matters?

@shinriley
That video was pretty interesting. I have a new respect for the (fairly opaque) level design in old-school Sonic games, I guess, even if I still don't really enjoy playing them. It's funny how he got hit once at the end of his high-scoring level and finished with 4 rings.

I thought he was going to play the new game after the old ones, though.

Also, I like that guy, because he is an asshole.

@anandxxx

Not trying to jinx Nintendo, it's just that right now it seems the only logical solution for Sonic. Maybe not just Nintendo, but someone with a track record of making great high selling games. Game Freak? Capcom? Somebody other than Sonic Team or Dimps to recreate what a Sonic game is suppose to be like. Maybe hire that guy who did that fan-made Sonic 3 game awhile back. Get rid of that damn homing attack, get the physics right, bring us some kickass music and level design and for the love of god don't make it an episodic game!!!!

@Simbabbad

I know. After the Casino stage I just had enough. I didn't want to bother finishing this cluster fu#@ of a game. Severely disappointed in this game.

@Simbabbad Wow. WOOOOOOW. The physics aren't just different, they're bad. I mean, it felt very wrong in the demo for a variety of reasons, but that video really shows just how little momentum really matters at all in this right-fest.

Meanwhile, the video shin posted makes me want to revisit the Genesis games for the umpteenth time.

Silly oldschool Sonic fans. What do they know? They're only the target audience.

Yeah, I'm not saying the game is absolutely terrible for all players, but its absolutely terrible if you're an oldschool Sonic fan who liked the oldschool Sonic games were expecting an oldschool Sonic game out of this. But really, who could that description possibly apply to? I mean, we're only the target audience of this game..... and Sega's been saying its "oldschool Sonic" the whole time.... and its called "Sonic 4"..... and they even said that they delayed the game to FIX the physics..... but no, no, we shouldn't be angry that the game isn't at all what its supposed to be, we should appreciated it for what it is. A cheap imitation that might be kinda fun to play if we ignore its glaring flaws and turn off our oldschool Sonic senses for the two or three hours it takes to beat the game. I mean, its only 15 bucks, its not like we can buy any other, better games for a price like that, right?



..... yeah, no. You newbies who like to hold right on the control stick and don't know the difference can enjoy it, but to people like us who loved the gameplay of originals(or just people with standards), this game is a mess. The Sonic Cycle continues.

And lol at the video Simba. If theres one thing good thats come out of this game, its the hilarious youtube videos.

Cube191 said:

I downloaded it last night and played a few levels. I'm enjoying it but have no idea what I am doing (Sonic nOOb).

[post]

Are the old Sonic games like this?

Wait a minute.

Okay.


....


.... okay, let me get this straight.

You are a "Sonic n00b".

You asked if the "old games are good".

These two things imply that you have not played Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles, all of which are readily available for you to download at cheaper prices.

And yet, instead of buying one of THOSE, you skip straight pass them and jump straight to the more expensive, less original, and much wonkier Sonic 4 as the game to pop your 2D Sonic cherry?


.....


WHAT ON EARTH IS WRONG WITH YOU


YOU FOOL

THAT'S LIKE GOING TO SEE THE SUPER MARIO BROS. MOVIE BEFORE PLAYING THE ORIGINAL GAME

GO PLAY THE ORIGINALS NOW.

BUY SONIC MEGA COLLECTION, YOU CAN FIND IT FOR LIKE 15 BUCKS ONLINE

THATS LIKE 5 OR 6 ACTUALLY-GOOD SONIC GAMES FOR THE PRICE OF THIS ONE SHORT LACKLUSTER SONIC GAME

I MEAN LIEK JEEZ LAWEEZ WHAT IS THAT ABOUT


People these days.....

@Dillo64
That gif is amazing.

Anyway, played the demo. It does feel pretty off, but I wonder if my judgment was severely influenced by watching those videos and seeing the feedback. I don't remember Sonic Rush playing like that, to be honest. On the other hand, I've never really enjoyed the slippery, momentum-based feel of the original Sonic games. SMB1 is about as much slipperiness as I can handle. Even Luigi in SMB2 was kind of annoying.

@Simbabbad

I laughed. It seems like every Sonic game that is released these days ends up getting its own Youtube video showing moments of really bad physics.

@Cube191

You should really do as Dillo64 says and give the old ones a try. Some fantastic 2D platforming.

Marble Zone is interesting because it plays so much like a standard puzzle/platformer rather than a Sonic game. Moving blocks, riding platforms, taking elevators...I think it's the only Zone in the series like that, too. I guess it makes sense since most of it is underground.

...aaaaAAAAHHH man I love the classics! I'm gonna have to play through the Genesis games again very soon. Funny how Sonic 4's disappointment has renewed my fervor with the originals.

Speaking of "hidden layers," ask Dillo about pushing the spikes I still can't believe it was still unknown to so many people, and that it caused such a huge reaction when so many found out about it earlier this year.

@Dillo64

You're waaaay too angry about this game. Calm down, bro. It's a good Sonic game. Who cares if it's not as good as the Genesis games. Clearly that was a magical time for Sega and those experiences will never be re-created. I'm actually surprised ANYONE expected Sonic 4 to be even half as excellent as those titles were, considering how the series has been going for the last 10+ years.

Anywho, Sonic 4 is a good game. I like it. I'm not going to freak out because it's not as great as the old games and you shouldn't be so uptight that some folks disagree with you and others that it's still a fun experience.

I can't wait for Sonic Colors. I'm sure many Sonic fans will have a heart attack (OMG Sonic transforms! And it's not into Super Sonic! Heresy!), but I think it looks great.

Orbital74 said:

@Dillo64

You're waaaay too angry about this game. Calm down, bro. It's a good Sonic game. Who cares if it's not as good as the Genesis games. Clearly that was a magical time for Sega and those experiences will never be re-created.

Fan-games have been re-creating it for years, though. And not just in reskins like the awesome-looking Sonic 2 and Sonic and Knuckles in 3D things. Fans are re-capturing the momentum-based physics and level designs that make use of them. You'd think Sega would do the same in a game they're calling Sonic 4.

As for Sonic Colors, I actually think it looks like an okay game in its own rollercoaster-style way. It certainly looks a lot better than Sonic 4, with the added benefit of not pulling a bait-and-switch on our nostalgia.

@nate38

Sure, you'd think they would. But clearly the fans are better at making classic Sonic games than Sonic Team and Dimps these days. I don't see how the physics are a deal breaker though. New Super Mario Bros. Wii had slightly different physics than the classic games and that title was still a joy to play. Sonic 4 is still a lot of fun regardless of the changes.

Well, sure every Mario game had slightly different physics, but not drastically so... The original Sonic games all felt a bit different too.

I think with just a little more tweaking, it could be good. For instance, it's really stupid that a spin dash off of an edge doesn't keep Sonic rolling... that and the fact that he uncurls himself upon going up a ramp. What? Why? Hopefully they will take the complaints to heart and fix some things up with episode 2

Physics play a much smaller role in Mario games than they do in classic Sonic games, though. The physics system was crucial to the level design and enemy placement in the classics. Changing the physics, especially to the degree they did, means a change to everything in the game. It can still be fun, I don't agree that it is from the trial I played, but it's a much more significant change than increasing Mario's hangtime.

Throughout the years I think the one thing I have learned from all the numerous message boards Ive frequented is that Sonic fans will never be happy with any new Sonic game that is released. It seems every newer Sonic game is compared to the first few Sonic games and if the new Sonic game does not play exactly like one of the first 3 Sonic games, then that game sucks and Sega should put Sonic to sleep.

I know that recent Mario games do not play exactly like the very first Mario, and definatly nothing like Mario 2, but do you hear Mario fans criing about it over and over again. Nope. Ive mentioned before that Ive played a few newer Sonic games and I enjoyed them.

My brother downloaded Sonic 4 and I was over at his house earlier playing it and I had alot of fun with it. A little while ago I turned on my Wii and played like the first 4 levels of the original Sonic. Now I could say I experienced nothing speacial about this Sonic, which I didn't. It was fun, but nothing about it was more fun that Sonic 4 or the 3D Sonic games I played.

In a way it would be like Kirby fans criing cause Kirby has no sucking powers in this new Kirby game, which is actually the first kirby game Ive ever played btw.

But back to Sonic, if people want a game that plays like Sonic 1,2 or 3, then I suggest playing those games. More than likely the developers making this new Sonic game wanted it to have it's own feel. If they wanted it to play just like Sonic 1, then all they needed to do was upgrade the graphics and say here, play it again Sam.

No newer Sonic game released so far or those that will be released in the near future will be Sonic 1,2,3. So get over it. Have fun with what they give ya or just quit playing all newer Sonic games.

Ok, I'll try to explain this the best way I can. I've played Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles. Loved em. Sonic Adventure came out, loved the Sonic stages. Sonic Adventure 2 came out, loved the Sonic stages (not a big Shadow fan). Haven't played Sonic Heroes. Sonic 2006 came out, horrible. Sonic SotR, haven't played it. Haven't played the Black Knight one either. Didn't want to play Unleashed because I didn't want to play as a Werehog.

After many "disappointments", Sega said that "they are returning to there roots with Sonic 4". Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles weren't rollercoaster games where all you had to do was "press right and win". There was platforming involved, there wasn't a homing attack, 3 and Knuckles had cool shields, the music was awesome and memorable, the stages were awesome and memorable, the boss fights (especially the final boss fights) were epic. That was the Sonic game that I was looking for in Sonic 4 (or at least half of it), but was hugely letdown. The only redeeming quality I can think of with Sonic 4 was the exclusion of Tails (he's annoying to me). This is why I am now crying/complaining about a Sonic game vs me crying about a Mario/Kirby/Zelda game.

Mind you, I absolutely hated New Super Mario Bros on the DS and didn't even bother getting it on the Wii. If this was a discussion about that, I would be vocal on that. However, all of the other Mario "platforming" games are amazing to me. I had a problem with Kirby Canvas Curse until I actually played it. Loved it. I had a problem with Zelda Wind Waker cartoony graphics until I played that and loved it. I had a problem with Sonic 4, bought it in hopes that the gameplay would redeem it and hated it. I don't know, maybe if they would've called it Sonic Rush Wii, I wouldn't have a problem with it (and wouldn't have bought it).

Now that thats out of the way, I'll respond to your post@gamewizard65. To be fair to us, you haven't played the first Sonic games before playing 4 so I'm not sure if you get why most of us are pissed at this incarnation of a failed project. It's like how most of us Final Fantasy fans who've played Final Fantasy 2 (FF IV) and Final Fantasy 3 (FF VI) say that it's better than Final Fantasy VII (FF VII) and how most of us hate Sephiroth. Ok, how about this. Let's say you've been playing Megaman since part one and they changed the series into Battle Network. Chances are your going to hate battle network because it's not the same side scrolling Megaman that your used to, but to some people Battle Network is fun. Even though it's fun, it's still not your cup of tea. Then Capcom tells you that they are returning to there roots, but skipped out on the minor things. Like you not being able to shoot 3 times while jumping or being able to jump when entering a robot masters room. It's rated as a fun game but how would you feel about those minor overlooked things?

gamewizard65 said:

Throughout the years I think the one thing I have learned from all the numerous message boards Ive frequented is that Sonic fans will never be happy with any new Sonic game that is released. It seems every newer Sonic game is compared to the first few Sonic games and if the new Sonic game does not play exactly like one of the first 3 Sonic games, then that game sucks and Sega should put Sonic to sleep.

Sonic games have sucked for a long time now, but it's not necessarily because they play different than the originals. That's just a coincidence. But it would make sense for them to copy the basic stuff that made the originals so great and gave us new levels to play in, wouldn't it? Kind of like what Mega Man 9 and New Super Mario Bros and all those other retro rebirths did? And isn't that what one would logically expect from a game called "Sonic the Hedgehog 4"?

gamewizard65 said:

I know that recent Mario games do not play exactly like the very first Mario, and definatly nothing like Mario 2, but do you hear Mario fans criing about it over and over again. Nope. Ive mentioned before that Ive played a few newer Sonic games and I enjoyed them.

Mario fans (i.e. me) would be crying if bouncing off a goomba in NSMB suddenly stopped Mario's forward momentum, or if sliding down a hill actually caused Mario to lose speed. Kind of like what happens in Sonic 4.

gamewizard65 said:

In a way it would be like Kirby fans criing cause Kirby has no sucking powers in this new Kirby game, which is actually the first kirby game Ive ever played btw.

Kirby fans (i.e. me) would probably be disappointed if Kirby's Epic Yarn was actually called Kirby's Dream Land 4 or Kirby Super Star 2 and was touted as a return to the classic Kirby formula, only to end up as this new yarn-based game that was completely different. But that's a flawed hypothetical because Kirby's Epic Yarn seems to actually be a really good game anyway, so it would probably blow over like the Celda hullabaloo did.

gamewizard65 said:

But back to Sonic, if people want a game that plays like Sonic 1,2 or 3, then I suggest playing those games. More than likely the developers making this new Sonic game wanted it to have it's own feel. If they wanted it to play just like Sonic 1, then all they needed to do was upgrade the graphics and say here, play it again Sam.

If they wanted to give the game it's own feel, then it doesn't make much sense to name it "Sonic the Hedgehog 4", does it? Especially when plenty of other Sonic games with their own feel have already come out, and none of them needed to be called "Sonic the Hedgehog 4" to do it.

gamewizard65 said:

No newer Sonic game released so far or those that will be released in the near future will be Sonic 1,2,3. So get over it. Have fun with what they give ya or just quit playing all newer Sonic games.

Most Sonic fans quit playing Sonic games at least five years ago. We do still like to bitch, though. As for me, I'll probably try Sonic Colors because it doesn't make a half-assed effort to ape the golden age and seems to be a better game for it. Rather than attempting to mimic what made the classics so great and failing terribly, it fully surrenders itself to the new rollercoaster boost-fest style and appears to at least make the most of it.

Yeah, most of the Sonic games released since the originals have been pretty bad... it's not a matter of just being different.

Sonic Colors looks very different than the originals, but you know what? From the recent videos I've seen of it, it looks like it might be pretty damn fun. My only real complaint with it is the stupid segments where you pound the A button over and over again to do stupid tricks and have the announcer tell you how "amazing!" you are.

We have a right to bitch that Sonic 4 doesn't maintain the feel of the originals, because they went and named it Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

Oh my goodness, I know it's because I suck at the game, but I had so much trouble at the Casino stage where you had to jump that long row of cards. If you hold the d-pad to the side, you gain momentum and it makes you overjump. If you don't hold it to the side, you fall straight through. So it was a pain to get through.