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Baba Is You Discussion (Nintendo Switch) [game]
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03/15/19, 23:04 Edited: 03/15/19, 23:09
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@Hero_Of_Hyrule@Secret_TunnelThe more I think about this, the more it makes sense. Assume that, when an object is created, it executes every rule applied to it. So, if you have the rules "rock is key" and "key is baba," any rock will turn into a key, and then immediately after creation, within the same frame, turn into baba. You never even see the key.
Now imagine you have the rule "rock is rock." The rock turns into a rock, which turns into a rock, which turns into a rock, which turns into a rock, etc., infinitely, recursively. This is no good! But because there's no real practical thing that changes from a rock turning into itself an infinite number of times per instant, it's fine.
But if you have the rules "rock is rock" AND "rock is key," then Rock0 turns into Rock1 and Key1, Rock1 turns into Rock2 and Key2, Rock2 turns into Rock3 and Key3, infinitely, recursively, forever, etc. This means you're generating an infinite number of keys every instant! I'm not really sure if this technically counts as a paradox or not, because working with infinities is hard, but it makes sense why this would be an undesirable effect from a puzzle design perspective, and it makes sense why saying "rock is key" and "rock is baba" isn't really the same thing, there's no infinite recursion there.So... maybe a little inconsistent, but in a way that at least has a logic behind it. @HinphSometimes! |
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Where are people at in this game? I feel like it was the next indie darling for a couple of days then everyone stopped talking about it.
Me personally, I want to like the game more, but it feels like it just throws brick walls (often literally) at you so often that I find it hard to stay into it. Sometimes I'm just kind of staring at my screen for like a half hour or so making no progress before I just turn it off and play Rocket League.
I'm a few worlds into the game and I have enough puzzles unlocked right now that I can always jump to new ones when I get stuck, but it's still like... almost every new one I just kind of instantly get stuck on as well.
I think the way this game is designed especially it is easy to feel INSTANTLY stuck in a way that isn't true for most puzzle games. In most other games I at least have ideas right away, try them out, maybe they work, maybe not, sometimes feel like I'm getting closer. Here it is often open a new level, see a handful of words, stare at the screen, think... how is this even possible? Then start moving stuff around aimlessly wondering what I'm missing. Sometimes I stumble on it accidentally, sometimes it clicks, but rarely do I feel like I actually SOLVED something by working through it anymore. Not in these later ones anyway.
So yeah, I'd still say it is a good game, but it's tough to keep going back to.
Now, if it had a hint mode... |
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I played a bunch of Noita yesterday, whose programmer is the dev who made Baba is You, and... the two games are very similar.
They're both based around phenomenally clever systems that leads to crazy emergent scenarios, and those systems keep getting ramped up until you get to the crazy meta mind-blowing endgame that breaks the physics of reality.
...and they're both so ridiculously hard that the vast majority of players will never see all that cool stuff.
Specifically, sometimes Noita feels more like a bullet hell game than a dungeon crawler. It's partially my own fault for using a controller, but when I run up against an enemy in a dark hallway, it really feels like there's not a whole lot I can do. I loved falling sand games back in junior high, and I love roguelikes today, so I was hyped for this, but the interesting interactions between different materials seem to have taken a backseat to... shooting monsters with gun-like wands. It might be that I'm playing it wrong, but I don't know what to do differently! |
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