* * * * * Chrono Trigger - Week 5 * * * * *

(Plain English: Scroll down to the bottom of the "OP" if you're lagging behind for previous weeks)


TABLE OF CONTENTS
Prologue:
i Okami Club
ii Fire Emblem Club

Epic Center:
01 Ogre Battle
24 Secret of Mana
39 Phantasy Star IV (cont'd)
67 Earthbound (cont'd)
99 Breath of Fire II (cont'd)
110 Paper Mario (cont'd)
123 Golden Sun (cont'd)
136 Chrono Trigger

(ALL VINTAGE EC GAMES ARE CONTINUED IN THEIR OFFICIAL DISCUSSION THREADS!)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


Hello, true believers! Welcome to Negative World's newest RPG-centric Club Hub, springing off the heels of the Fire Emblem Club. Way back when, Nintendo Power introduced a monthly walkthrough / in depth Role Play Game section (right around the beefiest SNES RPG era), but since they aren't around anymore to use it, Negative World will bring it out of the ashes, dust it off, and roll with it (two things of note: #1, this is not in reaction to Nintendo Force Magazine at all -- I know that because I thought of it in the shower this morning, so THERE; and #2, I just looked up "Epic Center RPG" on Yahoo, and there is apparently another RPG-based site that has that, ugh. I guess we're looking at a "Ghostbusters" / "Real Ghostbusters" thing now... Whatever..).

For anyone who grew playing SNES RPGs, and were a fan of them, they surely resonated to the point where they still hold office as some of your favorite games of your entire videogame life, systems, generations, and decades later. The NW Epic Center (run primarily by myself, with the aid of some special friends occasionally) will help to expose some of those games that didn't quite get the recognition they deserved, and also to relive some of the greatest games EVER as we play through them again -- together -- and open up a whole new dialogue on these lost treasures.


Next up..



Chrono Trigger is held by many (myself included) as The Greatest RPG of All Time, pun not intended. It is a benchmark title in the genre, and even after 20 years the game is discussed daily and held in high regard, even in the face of juiced-up, HD "masterpieces." Is simpler sometimes better? Sure, but we're not talking "Dragon Warrior" simple here; we're talking 16-bit perfection at its finest. I'm personally a bit worried about pursuing this game once more; it's been a long time since my last jog through it, and I'm afraid I might have the rosiest pair of glasses that any shot of nostalgia could ever produce. We find out later this month, for better or for worse. (C'mon, it's gonna be fine -- we're talking Chrono Trigger here!! THE BEST, JERRY, THE BEST!!)

Sunday, August 30th marks the start of Week 1 (if you prefer to start your own quest AFTER Sunday, like Monday, or Tuesday, or Wednesday, thats fine!). Golden Sun ran 6 Weeks. GameDadGrant will be our DUNGEON MASTER for this one, and we figure the playthrough to run about the same length. Less than two months. I'm told the total quest should last you between 20 and 30 hours.


See ya soon!!


CHRONO TRIGGER

Dungeon Master: GameDadGrant

You Did It! Chrono Trigger Complete:
VofEscaflowne
Scrawnton
Mop it up
Ludist210


Week 4 Complete:
GameDadGrant
mrbiggsly
DapperDave

Week 3 Complete:
Mr_Mustache (and Mrs_Mustache!)

Week 2 Complete:
Smerd
Dark weres
warerare
sirmastersephiroth

Week 1 Complete:
Anand

Triggermen:
HammerLord
Koovaps

Week 1
Week 2
Week 3
Week 4
Week 5

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URL to share (right click and copy)

WEEK 4
Main Objectives
1.) Upon reunion with Ayla, investigate Laruba's rubble and proceed to the Dactyl's nest.
2.) Confront Azala at the Tyrano Lair.
3.) Use the new gate, and enjoy the splendor of the "antiquity" era!
4.) Find your way to have an audience with the Queen.
5.) Go to the Keeper's Dome in 2,300 AD
6.) Return to antiquity and find the Earthbound ones.
7.) Defeat the boss in the mudbeast den, then ascend to Mount Woe.
8.) Return to the Queen's palace.
9.) After kicking Dalton's Golem's butt(s), go to....the Ocean Palace! (love the music in this area!)
10.) After the BIG boss battle at the end of this area (you'll know it when you get there) take a breather and save the game.

Side Objectives:
a.) In Enhasa and Kajar, find the secret rooms by opening the magic books in the correct order.
b.) Fight the Nu inside the secret room. (save your game beforehand, just in case!)
c.) Scratch the Nu's back!
d.) If you have a lot of extra time, after leaving antiquity for the first time, travel around the Middle Ages and activate the pendant on the "sealed with a mysterious force" boxes around town and in Guardia Castle. Don't open 'em, though. Do that in 1,000 AD instead.

@GameDadGrant

You should have a side objective to be obtaining the Mop

Though I don't exactly remember if that's possible or not given that this is the first playthrough.

Hey! I finished Week 3. Starting on Week 4 now =)

VofEscaflowne said:

@GameDadGrant

You should have a side objective to be obtaining the Mop

....get the mop...

Caught up and now on week 4!

@VofEscaflowne

Did you steal the mop?

@GameDadGrant

I'm not quite there yet but Ayla still doesn't have her steal ability and needs 362 TP to get it. Not sure if I want to spend the time grinding since I'm at the spot where I can get it

In the words of Ayla, "Crono slow!" Still working my way through week 3, but Crono, Ayla, and Marle are in pursuit of the Gate Key.

I'm behind too. I'm about to enter Magus' castle.

This game is just flawless. It's not my favorite game ever, but it is the most flawless. The pacing is perfect. I never feel the slightest bit bored with an area before something changes or mixes it up. The story is perfectly paced.

Even though I like FF6 better, there are plenty of parts in FF6 where it starts to drag and you just want to finish an area. That never happens in CT.

I forgot how they make it seem like Magus is responsible for Lavos. That's such a great twist when you learn the truth about it later.

So, yeah. I actually DID crack this bad boy open on my vacation to London. I only made it through Week 1, though, since I didn't realize that the 3DS charger doesn't transform voltage from UK to US. Nertz!

Pretty fun stuff so far. The characters are cool (except for the main character, who's (probably purposely) kind of a cipher), and I want to see where the story goes. Toriyama's art isn't really my bag, but the in-game sprites are cute and well-animated. (Penny always looks like a cyclops when she's facing the screen, though.)

As for the 'gameplay', I like that there are no random encounters. I also like that you can sidestep some encounters (although I'm not quite sure exactly how that works yet). The controls are kind of clunky, which made some of the carnival minigames irritating. But the character movement is nice and snappy. I have to confess that I don't really understand the active battle system, though. Is there a 'smart' way to battle? Is strategy ever really required to beat enemies (if you don't go out of your way to over-level)? One of my complaints about RPGs is that you can usually just autopilot through all the battles (with a few exceptions, like Shiren the Wanderer and Mario RPGs). Is there some hidden depth to Chrono Trigger's battle system that I'm missing? Are combos just a matter of waiting for multiple bars to be full, or can you time normal attacks to combo together? Is targeting one enemy at a time with every character ever NOT the best strategy?

It seems that location actually matters, which is cool. I haven't quite got a handle on that yet, though.

Overall, I'm enjoying it. Good stuff. The music hasn't quite bowled me over yet, but we'll see if it worms its way into my brain over the course of the game.

@Anand

The battle system is, at it's base level, fairly standard-issue for typical 16bit RPGs. The game does throw a few curveballs at you later in the game, where it will ask you to attack certain enemies with certain character skills, *then* attack with other party members, for example. The combos do mostly just rely on you waiting for two or more characters' bars to fill up, then unleashing the combo during your next turn. Though depending on the fight, you may want to use certain Techs over others. As you said, placement on the battlefield actually matters, so unless you're using some über, screen-filling attack (which of course you'll get later in the game) you'll want to know how exactly certain Techs/Double Techs/Triple Techs work. And what elemental-type damage they cause (if any).

Of course, a lot of this stuff is explored much deeper in the game, so you won't see much of the "depth" just yet. Right now I'm guessing the only battle "strategy" that might come into play right now is whether or not Crono's "Cyclone" attack will be able to hit multiple enemies at once or not.

So, we ALMOST finished Week 1 yesterday.. I am not proud.

@Anand

Hey cool, welcome aboard! And the music; it will so totally worm!

I got five Ruby Vests, five Stone Helmets, and everyone's good weapons from 65,000,000 BC. I've now gotten Frog back and we're heading in to wrap up week 3.

One thing that I still don't understand about the combat is when enemies take their turns. Sometimes enemies will stand around doing nothing while my party characters take multiple turns. Then sometimes, the enemies get multiple turns before we can take a turn. I realize sometimes the enemies are counterattacking whenever we hit them, but it isn't always clear when this is the case. Also it may have to do with some attacks that the enemies have to be close enough to use. I'm not sure. But it's hard to strategize when it's not clear when and how often enemies will attack.

@DapperDave

It depends on the enemy type and the enemy speed.

@DapperDave

If you're twice as fast as an enemy character, you'll generally take two turns in the same amount of time it takes them to take 1
If they're twice as fast as you, then vice versa.
The "Haste" spell doubles the speed of its target
Counter-attacks are a passive ability and aren't affected by, nor do they affect, speed or turn-frequency.

Usually in games like these, if you see someone countering you, you should try using a different move on them to avoid the counter (ie if it counters when you attack, then use magic instead, and vice versa. If it counters everything, try hitting it with a status ailment).
Do you have your time-bars set to visible? It really helps visualize at least your own characters' turn-frequencies and plan out their strategies as their turns approach.

Just fought Slash with Frog and Robo. Their Triple Tech sped up that battle considerably. Time for Flea!

I guess it was unfortunate timing that this coincided with the release of Super Mario Maker, since there's been little discussion about this amazing game. Oh well, it seems to be picking up now.

As for the talk of position in battle, I like that idea but feel it's a bit underdeveloped. One reason I wanted to see a true sequel is that I think there are still some expansions they could do on this game's ideas, such as allowing you to position where your characters will stand during a battle. Then, you could more easily set up the different kinds of area attacks, but you'd also want to be careful about standing in the worst areas of enemy attacks. Maybe you could even move a character mid-fight at the cost of a turn.

Myself, I've gotten through the Week 3 portion. This is one of the best sections of the game, since it's where things start to open up with magic offering more options in battles. We also finally get some backstory to one of these characters with Frog, who is unfortunately no longer a marshmallow in this DS version.

Is there any rhyme or reason to the holes in the Reptite Lair? They seem random, but they might not be so. I've never been able to figure out exactly how they work, and I don't think I was able to get into every section.

Are there actually 100 beasts in the castle? I always thought it was just a line, I've never actually counted. Any acknowledgement if you do it? (I missed a Juggler that was floating too far out.)

@VofEscaflowne I remember that, it's pretty funny. I forget exactly where it is though. Isn't it a steal of some kind?

I like to steal everything, but I don't particularly like Ayla. In this game, the strongest stuff is often magic, so she's a bit lacking without magical ability.

Dark Weres said:

@DapperDave

If you're twice as fast as an enemy character, you'll generally take two turns in the same amount of time it takes them to take 1
If they're twice as fast as you, then vice versa.
The "Haste" spell doubles the speed of its target
Counter-attacks are a passive ability and aren't affected by, nor do they affect, speed or turn-frequency.

Usually in games like these, if you see someone countering you, you should try using a different move on them to avoid the counter (ie if it counters when you attack, then use magic instead, and vice versa. If it counters everything, try hitting it with a status ailment).
Do you have your time-bars set to visible? It really helps visualize at least your own characters' turn-frequencies and plan out their strategies as their turns approach.

Yeah but how can you identify a counter attack? If an enemy attacks right after you it could just mean that enemy had a regular attack in the queue.

@DapperDave

You can tell most of the time.. Lucca's thing back at the Festival DEFINITELY counters everything, and the first boss did, too. I think it even said sometimes "can't counterattack, too close" or something.