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OT: What would it take to get you to stop eating meat?
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With the new David Foster Wallace movie coming out, there's been a lot of internet chattering about it and him. I am not very familiar with his work, only having watched the YouTube video of his brilliant graduation speech at Kenyon College. Curious to learn more, I decided to read his well known 2004 essay Consider the Lobster. In it, he doesn't explicitly argue that eating lobster as it is traditionally prepared (as fresh as possible, often boiled alive) is inhumane, but asks the reader to contemplate the possibility and to confront how we ignore the question or justify our behavior. It's a good read if you haven't read it, and not too long. I love meat. I can hardly imagine my life without eating it. And I also happen to love some of the more morally questionable food choices. Lobster is my favorite food, foie gras is also high on the list. And of course, given what I know about the meat industry in the United States, almost all meat options seems rather morally questionable. I've faced these questions in moments of introspection, and I come up with some justifications. The ample suffering that would exist for animals even if humans weren't involved, like being hunted and eaten or, on the other side, starving to death. But usually I just resolve not to think about it any longer and go about my way. In general, I try not to act morally superior to people (although perhaps some on this board will dispute that). Go back to any time in history and you'll find average, seemingly not-evil people who allowed, approved of, or even participated in actions that we now recognize as barbaric. I am not so proud to believe that I could never be seen as one such person centuries from now. In Consider the Lobster, Wallace raises the possibility that eating lobster and other meat could be looked back on in the future like human sacrifices of the Aztecs or Roman gladiator matches. I can certainly imagine such a future. But what would it take to make that future happen, perhaps even in my lifetime? The first possible catalyst that comes to mind is some sort of advancements in understanding animal minds. Imagine if there were developed a way to communicate with animals and we were able to learn someway or another first hand from animals that their suffering was substantial and similar enough to what we understand as human suffering that we couldn't hide behind the fact that we don't really know if lobsters experience pain like we do. Another catalyst could be a replacement for meat, some sort of genetic creation perhaps, that tastes exactly the same as meat but doesn't require killing a sentient being. People are quite suspicious of GMOs and would certainly be suspicious of this, but if it was thoroughly tested and tasted close enough that any difference could be attributed to the now ingrained suggestion that natural is better, I certainly think I would be on board and would stop eating the real thing. Without something like that happening though, I'm afraid I don't have it in me to give it up or even to wrestle hard enough with the moral implications until I either come up with a satisfactory justification or just accept my behavior as immoral. For meat-eaters like me, what's your thoughts? Could some development stop you or are you all in? For those vegetarians or vegans among us, what was it that pushed over the edge, assuming you weren't raised to not eat meat from birth? Note: Let's try not to condemn each other's views. I think we can do it. URL to share (right click and copy)
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08/18/15, 08:18 Edited: 08/18/15, 08:18
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@HinphThat is true indeed. Capitalism is incompatible with that type of future. If you ask me though, capitalism needs to die, and it will die at some point much like feudalism before it. Hopefully it is replaced with something more sensible like communism, and when I say communism I mean that in the true sense of the word of not having to worry about having to pay a mortgage because people have houses that are paid for by everyone. Imagine a life that (some) Native Americans have/had before columbus where people are not just left to die or are suddenly saddled with a crazy debt because they got sick and couldn't afford the medicine like it happens here so often. @deathly_hallowsThen again humans also possess other vestigial features such an appendix, that doesn't mean we need it. Sure, we are able to eat meat if push comes to shove but that doesn't mean we have to as a species to survive, specially nowadays. It is entirely possible that in a few generations if enough people become vegetarians, they will be phased out. The first thing that comes to mind is lactose intolerance. Some tribes developed it because they were not shepherds and didn't have a need to develop that tolerance. @TranquiloEating animals as a principle is not inherently wrong, but rather the way in which animals are farmed for food is the problem. That causes great strain in our resources, and is harmful to the environment as well as our health because of the stress those animals are put through, which affects the meat we consume. If we went back to hunting our own food we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. |
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First, I eat what I want, basically whatever I'm craving, I will devour at that moment in time.
Second, with that said, I've never been a 'huge' meat lover and as I have become older I eat less and less meat. Just something about eating meat really turns me off at times, plus I think it is all waay overpriced. I've only had lobster/crab legs, ect a couple times, when I was in my mid twenties. A couple people I was eating dinner with couldn't believe I've never tried either(this was at different occasions). I thought, finally, I'll get to experience what I've been missing for 20+ years. I wasn't impressed. I'm like 'Seriously, people love this stuff so much to blow $20+. Now, I didn't hate either, just thought there wasn't much taste and it all reminded me off edible rubber. I guess I'm lucky not to have been overjoyed by the expensive dishes.
I'm not looking for the links, but I've watched many shows that depict different animals out in the wild and in captivity that are shown, obviously mourning when their young ones, babies were killed and eaten by predators. Even before seeing these documentaries, I knew animals have feelings and they can be observed mourning, displaying happiness, ect. Even though animals cannot talk as humans do, they can communicate. Animals may not know of Einstein's different laws, the workings of the humans judicial system, ect, ect. Though to be honest, they are better off not being burdened by such things.
I do feel its wrong how society treats these animals on these farms. I'm not saying its wrong to eat meat, because I do believe in survival of the fittest motto, but I feel there can be more humane ways to go about running these farms or acquiring one's favorite protein, but unfortunately it all comes down to making a buck at any cost. Not only do we hurt those animals, we are hurting ourselves in the process. |
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