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OT: Hey, let's discuss this video series about the Sarkeesian backlash! [roundtable]
 
Yep, I'm makin' it a roundtable.

Not to get too "political" on you, but I watched this six-part video series recently, and I thought it was really well-done. It may seem like a typical anti-GamerGate video at the start, but it isn't. It isn't even truly about Anita Sarkeesian. The analysis is very logical and even-handed, and I appreciated the way that it recast the whole feminism issue (or any social progress issue, really) by framing it from the perspective of the people whom it irritates. Honestly, it almost single-handedly repaired the damage done to my judgement by thousands upon thousands of strident internet-liberals.

Try to go in without any pre-conceived expectations and watch it with an open mind.








I'll give you the Cliffs Notes, in case you don't want to watch right now. Essentially, the video series analyzes WHY people like Anita Sarkeesian produce such a strong negative reaction, and it goes beyond the usual simplistic "They're taking our games!!" rhetoric. This guy posits that the REAL, underlying reason why Anita makes many gamers uncomfortable is that she causes them to question their way they've lived their life to this point. Ignorance is bliss, and the aim of people like Anita is to remove that ignorance. Like the term "privilege". A lot of people hate that term, and it's always rubbed me the wrong way, as well. But it doesn't mean that your life is peaches and cream or that every person from a minority has it tough. It just means that a minority person in the same position as you would have it harder, solely due to the way they were born.

That's an uncomfortable thought, as most people think of themselves as fundamentally good people, and acknowledging that you've never questioned your advantages or thought to help the less fortunate would call your own morality into question. And we're ALL guilty of that, to be honest. It's almost unnatural behavior to revolt against a system that personally benefits you. I mean, I don't like the thought of killing living creatures. I find the thought of hunting utterly revolting. I don't even swat mosquitoes or gnats. If I really considered the fact that animals had to die just so I could enjoy a hamburger, I'd probably be a vegetarian. So I don't WANT to consider it. Because meat is delicious!

Similarly, look at freaking FoxConn. All of our consumer electronics products are basically made of Chinese children. Who the fuck wants to think about that?! What's the alternative?

I'm not saying that I'm necessarily going to change my behavior based on this video series. I still believe that ignorance is bliss, and if you spend all of your time thinking about the evils of the world, your life's probably not going to be very enjoyable. But I still think it was worth watching. It kind of brought stuff that has always been floating at the back of my consciousness to the forefront. And what I most appreciate is that it did so in a non-judgmental way. It might make you a bit uncomfortable, but it definitely won't single you out.

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07/23/15, 21:45    Edited: 07/30/15, 05:09
 
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Speaking of female developers, this just popped up...

Meet 6 Women Who Are Winning The Gaming Game

It's interesting.

@TriforceBun No Mustache has to do it personally, because he always complains about wanting more Wii U games.
08/12/15, 07:19   
Edited: 08/12/15, 07:21
@TriforceBun

As seemingly has to be explained over and over, just because some of these things that contribute to a sexist society show up in a game doesn't mean the entire game needs to be thrown out and condemned as sexist.

@Zero

Particularly RPGs, so I'm excited to see what 50 hour experiences he has for us.
08/12/15, 07:41   
Edited: 08/12/15, 07:42
@Zero

The stuff you blocked out here; I've been hearing so much POSITIVE stuff about this game, and now that I've learned this, it seems like thats the ONLY reason why this game is getting so much press, and its getting press BECAUSE of that. Isn't that WRONG to you? It feels like a ploy more than anything. Unfortunate.

@Stephen

..Or, she could do a Kickstarter for the purpose of making a game (instead of just talking about them). Surely, nobody raises thousands of dollars on Kickstarter to make games -- wait, they do? Well that excuse doesn't work then.. And people will work for whatever they want to. Is Zero paying himself or his game? I'm guessing no? Did T-Bun pay himself for his game? I'll also guess no. Doesn't "the greater good" often outweigh a paycheck? Doing a game like this would almost be CHARITY in a sense. YES, I'm aware that people have REAL jobs that pay REAL money, but work with me here. Why is this such a problem for you guys?

@Hero_Of_Hyrule

Anita has devoted her "life" to this stuff she's doing, I don't know why she can't be the figurehead of some gaming group. Again, I don't know why this is so hard for everyone here. They can't find some hotshot upstart(s) out of college who wants to get her feet wet? I wonder if she'd get any good press and attention while attached to the first game from this newly minted company led by Anita Sarkeesian. I know MANY of you on here would be on board before a pencil even hit paper. Try to deny it.

And the fact that nearly ANYONE (with skills) can make a game through Kickstarter helps my cause even more. Multiple people on this site have already done it!! Gimme a break here, geez. You're acting like its IMPOSSIBLE.

@Zero

Wow, funny!.. Don't worry, pal, there will be ZERO Wii U games soon enough. Laugh it up then. RIP WII U
08/13/15, 01:49   
No, that isn't the only reason Gone Home got press, though certainly it was a factor, since it was a pretty unique thing at the time, and there is nothing wrong with that. But like I said, the devs worked on one of the most praised AAA games ever, Bioshock, so that was another reason the project got press (pretty much anytime big devs do indie games they get a lot of press), not to mention it looked pretty amazing (graphically) for an indie game and you know how the press eats up the graphics.

I'm curious why you came to this conclusion about a game you know nothing about though? I mean seriously, why would you think that was the only reason it got press? There were a LOT of reasons people were excited about the game and once it was released, loved the game. It's supposed to be a pretty incredibly experience. Talk to some of the people here who have played it, I know a bunch love it.

OR... play it on Wii U and find out for yourself. It's coming soon! That's the only reason I haven't played it elsewhere yet, is they announced a Wii U version so I figured I'd wait.
08/13/15, 01:59   
@Zero

Well, why did YOU bring it up? You mentioned the graphics an entire post afterwards, and the thing you mentioned was worth spoiling out. I'm sure that was a serious factor.

And I have so much crap on Wii U to play already. I have THREE MORE JURASSIC PARK MOVIES to play through still. I also want to get Citizens of Earth for $4.99 (it is OCD enough for me..), Dragon Fantasy on the eShop, and I've got Bayonetta 2 to finish this month. I haven't really been playing REAL games lately either, just farting around on WWE Supercard CONSTANTLY. And preseason football starts up this week, so I have to watch all of those games... Even in fast forward its time consuming. Unfortunately, I won't be able to make a 50 hour RPG epic this week, though perhaps I could get back to work on my comic.. HMMMMM

(believe it or not, all of the drawing I've done so far has earned/cost me... $0!! -- though I did buy some new pencils..)
08/13/15, 02:12   
I brought it up to point out that some people will definitely turn on developers for going from making games that appeal to them (in this case Bioshock, etc.) to games that do not... that being a relevant detail in why this game doesn't appeal to a lot of it's detractors. And I spoiled it after I was informed it was a spoiler. Not sure why you would assume that is the ONLY reason anyone cares about the game. Like, instead of assuming, why not read reviews or ask people why they like it? I'm asking this seriously because I feel like if you reflect on why you jumped to that conclusion so quickly it might help you understand things a bit better.
08/13/15, 02:23   
Btw you do know Dragon Fantasy is an indie game right? Glad to see you finally getting into indies!
08/13/15, 02:26   
@Mr_Mustache

Seriously, if anyone can make a game why don't you make an RPG for Wii U?
08/13/15, 02:30   
@Zero

Unfortunately, Gui panned it.

@Jargon

Because I don't have:

-an original RPG idea
-programming skills
-experience with programming, period
-a team of programmers / developers I can just dial up
-any sort of musical talent
-a screenprinting press to make up Backer reward T-Shirts
-a pile of blank T-Shirts
-a decent computer (WINDOWS XP, M'RF'R)
-people who believe in me
-desire to make an RPG for the Wii U
-time


--OH! Are you offering to donate to my cause to get things rolling? Let's start with "enough for a new computer!," and maybe by the time 2023 rolls around, I'll have met my projected release date (barring any "unforseen setbacks," of course! wink wink). My pockets are open, Jargs; fill when ready.
08/13/15, 02:41   
Pff I don't have half that stuff and I'm making a game. Where there is a will there is a way or something.
08/13/15, 02:42   
@Mr_Mustache

Does Anita have programming skills?
08/13/15, 02:52   
@Jargon

No, she has (for comparison sake):

-an original RPG idea (as evidenced by one of her videos)
-programming skills
-experience with programming, period
(even though she can make YouTube videos, we'll assume "no")
-a team of programmers / developers she can just dial up
-any sort of musical talent (or someone to do music/sound for her, as her show has)
-a screenprinting press to make up Backer reward T-Shirts
-a pile of blank T-Shirts

-a decent computer (I highly doubt her HD videos are made on a WINDOWS XP computer)
-people who believe in her (hello, all of you guys, tons of her backers, followers, like-minded individuals, etc.)
-desire to make an RPG for the Wii U (she only has desire to talk about what isn't there)
-time


So BFD, she can't print T-shirts either.


@Zero

Bullcrap, you're in fine shape. I KNOW you know music. And programming. And you have a computer with chops. And a site of people who love you. AND you've got somebody WORKING WITH YOU. What are you talking about??
08/13/15, 03:02   
Here is what I don't have:
-an original RPG idea
-game programming skills
-a team of programmers / developers I can just dial up
-a screenprinting press to make up Backer reward T-Shirts
-a pile of blank T-Shirts
-a decent computer (WINDOWS XP, M'RF'R)
-desire to make an RPG for the Wii U
-time

These are the only ones I do have:
-experience with programming, period
-any sort of musical talent
-people who believe in me (sort of)

Anyway, this Anita has to make her own game or... ? line of thought made no sense the first ten times you brought it up.
08/13/15, 03:35   
Edited: 08/13/15, 04:03
@Mr_Mustache

People believe in her to make poignant critiques of the video game industry, not in making games. Probably because as you admit, she's shown no desire to make games. Just like you. You are Anita.

Am I really supposed to believe you would criticize someone making a video asking for more RPGs on Wii U? Oh wait, I don't need to speculate, because someone did that on Wii and you never told Andrew Eisen to just make his own games.
08/13/15, 03:40   
Anita making a game wouldn't prove anything. Best case scenario, we get a good game that's doesn't have any of the icky stuff she describes. One of the bad scenarios would be the game doesn't find its audience and her detractors point at that as evidence that her criticism is pointless and for no one.

Meanwhile hundreds of games made by men fail every year and no one is holding them up as evidence that men can't make games or aren't into games.

I'm sure this point has been made a dozen times before.
08/13/15, 03:56   
Edited: 08/13/15, 04:04
@Zero
@Jargon

Ugh, you guys twisted stuff. She doesn't MAKE it herself, she LEADS a group and says "this is what we should do," and then..they do it. And then they do another. And another. And then other people make games as such, etc. So much for Women's Empowerment; don't do anything yourself, just COMPLAIN (female stereotype... "boo stereotypes," right?) until a GUY does it for you.

Classic Damsel in Distress. Rescue me, men, because I can't do it myself. I figured the Gender Signifier video to be somewhat ironic, I didn't realize until now that the Damsel one was, too. How deep is this rabbit hole??

You know what song is awesome?:




"You are Anita." Yeah, except for the unmeasurable amount of INTERNET CELEBRITY and NAME RECOGNITION she has.


(Good point, I bet Andrew Eisen COULD organize his own group with his name alone; it's not Anita Sarkeesian Big, but he's YouTube Big.. And he was talking about Japan Only games that were being held from us via red tape that shouldn't have been there in the first place, but you already knew all that, of course.)


@Guillaume

Whats wrong with "leading by example?" I've done it before. Not on that scale, but yeah.

And I think this is a Straw Man, because a) she hasn't made games so b) they can't fail? I don't get how straw men work, so I never get to call anyone out on it. If that isn't a straw man...still, she hasn't made a game, so it can't fail. Dig it.
08/13/15, 04:29   
@Mr_Mustache

Internet celebrity and name recognition that she wouldn't have if it weren't for making the videos that you don't think she should have made.
08/13/15, 04:34   
@Jargon

Not to mention that this is just with games. Anita has made videos about movies and things like Lego and the direction of their product. Before she even got to games she would have made movies and a construction toy line.
08/13/15, 05:29   
@Mr_Mustache Wait, where are you even getting this "complain until a guy does it for you" nonsense? Did you miss the list of female game developers I posted earlier? No one is sitting around waiting for men to do anything for them.

But she's not a game developer. She never was, isn't now, and presumably doesn't want to be. She's a culture critic. And that's fine. You really only know her from her game videos but she makes a ton of videos about a variety of things... comics, toys, movies, games, etc. You're telling me she has to go out and make ALL OF THOSE? Nah. Not any more than any of us (yourself included) who have written game reviews here have to go out and make our own games.

Bah. WHY ARE WE EVEN HAVING THIS DUMB DISCUSSION AGAIN. You have like no legitimate point here. It's just a weird distraction.
08/13/15, 05:44   
Edited: 08/13/15, 05:45
@Zero

Whack a mole.
08/13/15, 05:56   
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