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OT: Hey, let's discuss this video series about the Sarkeesian backlash! [roundtable]
 
Yep, I'm makin' it a roundtable.

Not to get too "political" on you, but I watched this six-part video series recently, and I thought it was really well-done. It may seem like a typical anti-GamerGate video at the start, but it isn't. It isn't even truly about Anita Sarkeesian. The analysis is very logical and even-handed, and I appreciated the way that it recast the whole feminism issue (or any social progress issue, really) by framing it from the perspective of the people whom it irritates. Honestly, it almost single-handedly repaired the damage done to my judgement by thousands upon thousands of strident internet-liberals.

Try to go in without any pre-conceived expectations and watch it with an open mind.








I'll give you the Cliffs Notes, in case you don't want to watch right now. Essentially, the video series analyzes WHY people like Anita Sarkeesian produce such a strong negative reaction, and it goes beyond the usual simplistic "They're taking our games!!" rhetoric. This guy posits that the REAL, underlying reason why Anita makes many gamers uncomfortable is that she causes them to question their way they've lived their life to this point. Ignorance is bliss, and the aim of people like Anita is to remove that ignorance. Like the term "privilege". A lot of people hate that term, and it's always rubbed me the wrong way, as well. But it doesn't mean that your life is peaches and cream or that every person from a minority has it tough. It just means that a minority person in the same position as you would have it harder, solely due to the way they were born.

That's an uncomfortable thought, as most people think of themselves as fundamentally good people, and acknowledging that you've never questioned your advantages or thought to help the less fortunate would call your own morality into question. And we're ALL guilty of that, to be honest. It's almost unnatural behavior to revolt against a system that personally benefits you. I mean, I don't like the thought of killing living creatures. I find the thought of hunting utterly revolting. I don't even swat mosquitoes or gnats. If I really considered the fact that animals had to die just so I could enjoy a hamburger, I'd probably be a vegetarian. So I don't WANT to consider it. Because meat is delicious!

Similarly, look at freaking FoxConn. All of our consumer electronics products are basically made of Chinese children. Who the fuck wants to think about that?! What's the alternative?

I'm not saying that I'm necessarily going to change my behavior based on this video series. I still believe that ignorance is bliss, and if you spend all of your time thinking about the evils of the world, your life's probably not going to be very enjoyable. But I still think it was worth watching. It kind of brought stuff that has always been floating at the back of my consciousness to the forefront. And what I most appreciate is that it did so in a non-judgmental way. It might make you a bit uncomfortable, but it definitely won't single you out.

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07/23/15, 21:45    Edited: 07/30/15, 05:09
 
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@DapperDave

Aren't those all related to the work she does though?
08/04/15, 01:50   
Stephen said:
@DapperDave

Aren't those all related to the work she does though?

There's the exact content of her videos, which I like, and everything that goes on with her outside of that, which I don't so much.
08/04/15, 01:57   
I'm remembering why I never typically participate in these threads. Trying to discuss these things with Mr_Mustache is like playing Whack-a-mole. Every time you respond to one of his stream of consciousness posts, he pops up with something new out of left field. I don't know about you guys, but I don't find Whack-a-mole very fun, especially when there's no prize.
08/04/15, 02:15   
@Stephen

You're asking me about Al Sharpton? Are you serious?

@Jargon

I just spent the last two hours reading another thread which I was never a part of. It is an UN-BE-LIEVABLE read.
08/04/15, 03:15   
Edited: 08/04/15, 03:19
@Mr_Mustache

I am. As far as I know he has done a bunch of peaceful protests. Is that what you take issue with or is there something I am not familar with?

@DapperDave

Fair enough I guess.
08/04/15, 03:59   
@Mr_Mustache @Stephen ho boy, this is going to end well...
08/04/15, 04:13   
Can we admit that we're all pretty stubborn, though? I mean, even in NW--which is pretty much the best online community out there--I rarely see someone say something like, "You know what? You're right. I never thought of it like that before!"

My bullheaded self included.
08/04/15, 06:37   
Well, whatever the case I feel like the stuff Mustache and I are getting into now is just literally a complete rehash of stuff we have gotten into before, so I see no point in continuing it.

@DapperDave Believe me I understand that too. I'm probably going to spend a good 4 years or so making a runner where every stage introduces a bunch of new gameplay. And then put it on PC where no one gives an F about runners. And it won't get nearly the same success that some of these really, really mediocre endless runners have gotten on iPhone and stuff. I think the fact that I already know this will help soften the blow a bit... perhaps. But at the back of my mind there is always this voice going "WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE SOMETHING PEOPLE WANT!"

The thing is though I think like... ever since I started listening to indie bands like 20 years ago or whatever I sort of knew that quality and popularity did not always come hand in hand, and that in fact, sometimes things are popular specifically BECAUSE they are watered down for mass consumption, and sometimes things I think are awesome will never be popular specifically BECAUSE they hit some really precise nerve that won't appeal to everyone. A sad fact but I've known it for years so I never really expect things to be different for my own stuff.

With that said your game deserves sales. I kind of wonder if maybe it would do better on consoles? But that's a tough call.
08/04/15, 07:36   
Edited: 08/04/15, 07:45
@Stephen

Here's a good start.
But as Pokepal has suggested..thats the end of that line of questioning for me. You can read as much as you want to your leisure.

@TriforceBun

I don't think you're bullheaded. As far as being stubborn..I've accepted that different people are different. Thats not enough for some folks though, unfortunately. Isn't that everyone is always clamoring for? Diversity? I guess diversity only works if everyone thinks the same way you do (which isn't diversity).

@Zero

Why make a runner then? Why not make a SWEET RPG?
08/04/15, 08:52   
@Mr_Mustache

So I watched the video and yeah, I agree. Statements like his shouldn't be defended. Here's what I don't get though: You were defending Hulk Hogan earlier for his racial tirade but now with Sharpton you are classing it as 'stirring the pot'. Don't you think that's a bit of a double standard?

Also, diversity is great when we are talking about representing the population more accurately. I'm not sure you'll find anyone who thinks we should celebrate the diversity of having racists and people who aren't racist though.
08/04/15, 09:02   
@Mr_Mustache Because making an RPG would probably take me like 10 years. I don't know how Dave did it. You don't need me to make an RPG. GO PLAY BOOT HILL HEROES!!!

Stephen said:
I'm not sure you'll find anyone who thinks we should celebrate the diversity of having racists and people who aren't racist though.

Gamergate.
08/04/15, 09:09   
@Zero

Hmm I seem to have omitted them due to my prejudice against Gamergate. I apologize to everyone. Gamergate should get the recognition they deserve.
08/04/15, 09:14   
I'm being like literally serious here too. I've seen several of them argue that, for instance, not allowing white people who wantonly use the N word as a slur (or like any one of a million other horrible things they have done) in your group would be closing off diversity.
08/04/15, 09:24   
@Stephen

YES, it's a double standard when someone gets BLACKBALLED and has to go into hiding basically, when someone else can continue doing what they've been doing for YEARS without even getting a slap on the wrist. Good point.

Also, Hogan's thing was done in private and it SOMEHOW got out, not featured in an auditorium to cheers and applause, and when confronted on the streets later, justified it because it was only one guy. Thats a huge difference, to me, and it should be to you, too.

--And what? I'm not talking about having racists.............whatishappeninghere......

I'm not DEFENDING HULK'S RACISM, I'm saying "whats bad for the goose is bad for the gander." Except it isn't, apparently. And thats bullsh. Furthermore, people have KILLED other people and had less done to them. Bruce (now Caitlin) Jenner kills someone, narrowly avoids vehicular manslaughter (due to the victim "driving HUA"), and then wins the ESPY for Courage. What the fudgebomb.

..So that whole "sticks and stones.." thing is completely out the window as we1 get older, I guess? Words are the WORST thing that can be done to someone. We should teach our (your) kids the truth now, before its too late.

@Zero

Is Boot Hill Heroes on Nintendo? Sadly, no. If it gets ported to Wii U (you know, LIKE EVERY GAME EVER....NOT!) I'm in. And why does an RPG have to take 10 years? Dragon Warrior looks mega simple. Just put Blobs in it. How long do you think Kingdom of Loathing took to make?
08/04/15, 09:28   
@Mr_Mustache Because I'm doing this in my free time! If I could work full time on an RPG maybe it would only take 5 years or so. As for specifics about why an RPG would take a long time, ask Dapper Dave. But you know, keep in mind that for one person to make a game takes a lotttttttttttt more time than a team making a game.

Also ask him if he will port it to Wii U. I'm guessing not. Maybe NX?
08/04/15, 10:26   
@Zero

I'm almost at the point of "F the NX." It's causing me wicked strife. So sick of hearing about it and excuses for why quality games won't/can't come to the Wii U, as if to say that the Wii U is a barren wasteland where fantastic games don't exist. Buck up, publishers.

It's probably expensive as hell for Dave to port it yonder. I wouldn't expect him to do that, nor could I even ask.
08/04/15, 11:58   
DapperDave said:
I kind of like Anita's videos much more than I like Anita the person....

Am I alone in this? Seems like most people like both or hate both.
None of us know Anita the person. Social media presence and even public talks aren't "her as a person". It's her public face, and she has to be very careful because people are constantly looking to discredit her for anything she says or does.



And that video isn't "Anita the person" either.
08/04/15, 16:51   
@TriforceBun

So I just got around to watching your vid, T-Bun. I really liked it. I thought she was spot on 100% of the time. And oddly enough, she didn't have to appear on-screen for a single second to get her point across. Huh. (I also thought her use of music was appropriate and fit well, not 'pandering' as some here have suggested.) Her points about remaining resilient in times of need are great, too. When someone is sick with a probably-terminal disease in the hospital, friends and family tell them to "be strong." No, they're not asking you to go out and dead-lift 500 lbs, they're telling you to keep up hope and hang in there..which is what Zelda does constantly (before peppering Ganon with Light Arrows). Good point, Kitetales!


And something so simple I thought of while watching it, and I'm sure it HAS to have been mentioned at some point but I don't remember seeing it anywhere. As far as Zelda being a strong character / insanely important:

Did we forget the game series is called "The Legend of Zelda" and not "The Legend of Link?"
Link is just a player in her story, like any individual character in Final Fantasy.
08/04/15, 18:56   
No, Link is the hero of the story. He's the protagonist. I think it's pretty obvious and doesn't need to be explained.

If Zelda was the main character of The Legend of Zelda, it would be obvious, and you wouldn't need to "remind" us of the title. She also wouldn't be missing from Link's Awakening or Majora's Mask.

We wouldn't argue that Samus is just a player in the Metroids' story, right? Ripley isn't just a side character in the periphery of the true star of the series, the Alien. They're the heroes.
08/04/15, 19:16   
Edited: 08/04/15, 19:40
@Guillaume

Where did I say "side character" anywhere?

And the difference between Samus and Ripley is that the game / movie aren't called "Legend of Mother Brain" and "Tales of the Xenomorph Queen" respectively.
08/04/15, 21:22   
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