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At what point does beating/100%ing a game turn into a waste of time for you? [roundtable]
 
I recently went on a rant about Smash Bros Wii U's single-player/Challenges section after getting infuriated with it last night, and it got me thinking about how I use my free time for gaming.

Pretty much everyone here is an adult, and as adults, we have a lot less free time than we did as kids. Do you find that your gaming habits have changed in terms of what you spend your time on now? Were you the type that got all 120 stars in Mario 64 when you were 11, but now can't be bothered to finish (or even open) half the games you buy? Or is it more of a game-by-game thing, where you try to 100% complete your favorites and simply do a quick run through of other games? I still try to go for 100%, but I have to admit that it seems kind of pointless nowadays if I'm not really enjoying myself. In the back of my mind, I kind of think "It'd be great to have this fully complete and show people or something," but I know that'll never happen--no one cares if I get every doodad in a platformer!

Aging is kind of a freaky thing. I used to spend hours in games' edit modes, like Mario Paint's song creator, and Warcraft 2's stage builder. Nowadays, I'd rather spend that time creating something I can use in real life (art, music, candy ideas, etc).

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, at what point do you throw your hands up with a game and decide that your time is better spent on another game, or on work, etc?

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03/04/15, 19:31  
 
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I really liked trying to 100% games in the past. Now I'm just lucky if I have the time to game in 1 hour long blocks. Time is no longer my friend when it comes to gaming.

That being said, I find that I rarely try to 100% things. I'll do a play through of a game, see the credits roll then investigate, online perhaps, what's available to unlock. If the unlock feels worth it to me I'll put in the time to do it. I like having all the karts and their options in Mario Kart games or all the costumes in a fighting game. Anything that feels like I'm getting "all the content" out of the game that can be used to play the game.

If I go back beyond the first play through, and it isn't about unlocking something, then I'm doing it for the fun of it. The Mario games are notorious for this with me. It really is fun to me to go after the stars, or gold mushrooms etc.

As has been said in this thread previously, I'm trying to be more selective with my gaming dollar. I'm reaching a point where I'd rather have quality games then a lot of games.
03/05/15, 16:48   
@Beardednerd

Here's the thing, though: Why the heck should "all the content...that can be used to play the game" be locked up behind challenges in the first place? I've never really understood that development decision and why it's so popular. Yes, unlocking things like new songs or whatever - cosmetic things - I can understand. And, of course, RPG style progression is essential to certain types of games. But why on earth are games like Smash designed where you have to complete tasks to unlock fighters? That I'll never understand.

It's one thing I appreciated about this latest Smash, actually. I think it took me months to unlock Wolf in Brawl. The unlocks were a lot easier this time around.

To be honest, I think I simply come from the Pac-Man generation. Games were about high scores back then. Of course I was there when we lost that arcade thing in the NES era and I love that style of gaming. But the "Gotta Catch 'Em All" fever really kicked in during the PS/N64 era and I see some of these collect-a-thon tendencies as the type of thing that drove me away from gaming the first time.
03/05/15, 18:40   
@kriswright

Ha, now you're making me wonder if the prevalence of saves isn't to blame.

Back in the day, maybe you'd unlock a bonus character by entering a code. Since the advent of the memory card, devs make us go through hoops in-game for the same thing.
03/05/15, 19:19   
Not wanting to 100% a 3D Mario-type game? Isn't that where 100%'ing pretty much originated? I guess DKC is the first time I remember it..

@kriswright

I never (NEVER) unlocked Game&Watch in Melee.
03/05/15, 19:40   
@Guillaume

You know, I hadn't thought about it very deeply, but you're right. It would have been problematic to build a console game around 100 percenting back before memory cards were common. I wonder if that's a demand that was filled by the new technology or a supply that was created by the new technology? Ya dig?

This is a tangent, but it raises another question I've never actually asked: What were "codes" back in the NES/SNES era? By which I mean, were they easter eggs put in the game for players? Or were they debug codes put in for the developers that just stayed in the final game? When I was a kid, I always assumed they were back doors created by developers so they could test the games more easily. That sounds less likely now that I think about it as an adult. Anyone know? Was it a mixture of both?

I'm sure if they started as developer tools that they soon morphed into Easter Eggs. But I'm not sure they weren't Easter Eggs from the start.
03/05/15, 19:41   
Edited: 03/05/15, 19:43
@kriswright

I guess the thinking behind unlocks in Smash, especially Melee, was that it encouraged you to experience more of what the game had to offer. Falco was locked behind 100 Man Melee; Ganondorf and Pichu were in event matches; Game and Watch was from Target Test; Luigi was a neat little secret in Adventure; Roy and Jigglypuff were in Classic. Yoshi's Island stage was unlocked through Home Run Contest; Battlefield was All-Star.

This is sort of a double-edged sword. I mean, who would discover that secret with Luigi in Adventure mode unless it was incentivized? But then again, would completing Target Test with every character feel rewarding if you didn't get anything for it? However, would people even be tempted to use certain characters if they didn't have to work for them? I rarely use Lucario in Smash U, but I think I would play as him more if I had to devote some time to unlocking him. Because he's always there, I take him for granted. If that character felt like a reward or if the chance to play as him took some effort to earn, I think I would use him more.

Overall, I think Melee goes a bit overboard with some of this stuff, Young Link being a particularly grind-y unloackable and Mewtwo being downright stupid. I can see the idea behind motivating players to try new modes and being rewarded for doing so, but at the same time the developer runs the risk of forcing players to do something they don't enjoy, or even locking off entire characters and stages from players who refuse to play those modes.
03/05/15, 19:51   
@kriswright

I think I'm leaning towards the technology bringing about the change in game design. "Oh, look at this thing we can now do. Let's do it!".

As for your question, I really don't know. I think it's likely that it was easier to hide their access than it was to take them out of the game entirely. And someone somewhere at some point must have thought "Maybe I could just make it available to people somehow".
03/05/15, 19:54   
@kriswright
There are two schools of thought regarding character unlocks in Smash. Some are like you, who just want to be able to have the maximum amount of gameplay available from the get-go.

But I subscribe to the opposite side--unlocking characters is fun! There's nothing quite as rewarding in the whole game as that, so once it's done, I feel like a part of the excitement is gone. Besides, you already have like 40 characters to pick from at the get-go, why not have others to hold off on?
03/05/15, 20:56   
@TriforceBun

I like unlocking characters too, but Smash 4's systems feels like it's trying to please both crowds while failing to make either happy. The "no unlocks" group is going to be upset because they have to play over 100 or so battles to get all of the characters while the "unlock" group is going to feel underwhelmed. I think unlocking characters by playing X number of battles is boring. I'd rather have to explore everything the game has to offer and be rewarded with new characters and stages, rather than getting them from playing the game the exact same way I was going to play it already. Maybe that's what the challenges are for, but it's not the same.
03/05/15, 21:20   
@Mr_Mustache

The first game I remember that showed a percentage was Super Metroid. But didn't Super Mario World give your save file a star when you beat all the stages? That's the first time I can remember a game acknowledging an accomplishment like that.
03/05/15, 22:15   
@gojira

Zelda had a bunch of hearts and some optional item upgrades like rings
03/05/15, 22:36   
@Zero I have that game, it's surprisingly decent.

@gojira I have that game, it's unsurprisingly terrible.

Don't ask why...
03/06/15, 00:03   
@Guillaume

Is succeeding at the game going through hoops? Obviously what you have to do to unlock things varies from game to game, but what's wrong with giving the player an incentive to actually experience the game that the developers created? I don't mind in the slightest having to beat Classic mode to unlock a character in Smash Bros or even having to place in Grand Prix to unlock the next cup in Mario Kart.

I get that some people just want everything available immediately because they treat them as party games, but in that case there's no satisfying reward for the people like me who do like to sit down with a game single player (or two player for Mario Kart) before making it a free for all.
03/06/15, 01:27   
Edited: 03/06/15, 01:54
@kriswright

I'm with you on the era thing. I remember writing down my high scores on paper for games that didn't have a way of saving them.

I agree with the assessment that technology bred this 100% thing. Or, at the very least made it much more common.
03/06/15, 01:28   
@Jargon

Yeah, even if some people may consider that sort of things arbitrary, unlockables have great increased my single player mileage in multiplayer oriented games like Smash and Mario Kart. I tend to play games like those longer if I have some sort of goal to work towards.
03/06/15, 01:36   
Wouldn't mind an "unlock everything" cheat code for Smash Bros, myself. There's a lot of cool content, and I'd like to see it all without having to grind through parts of the game I really don't care for.
03/06/15, 03:04   
@nate38

Theoretically you could download a save file and put it on an external hard drive?
03/06/15, 03:14   
As soon as it's no longer any fun, I move on. I don't really have a completionist mentality... I look at many of the challenges in Smash, for example, and say "yeah, never doing that..." and it doesn't concern me any.
03/06/15, 03:17   
@Jargon Nope. A copied save file will work only with the system where it originated. You can't copy a save file and have it work on another Wii U system.
03/06/15, 03:32   
@Mop it up

Weird, you could do it on Wii. I wonder why they changed it.
03/06/15, 03:35   
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