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Bravely Default: Flying Fairy Discussion (Nintendo 3DS) [game]
 
Bravely Default: Flying Fairy on the 3DS
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Welcome to the official discussion thread for Bravely Default: Flying Fairy on the 3DS!

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02/09/14, 17:48    Edited: 02/09/14, 17:48
 
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Phew, I finally finished Bravely Default. And it was a very mixed experience.

The first 4 chapter were pretty good. Maybe even great. The story was ho-hum, but the combat system made things worthwhile. The pace was extremely slow, but that was mitigated by a rewarding amount of character growth and an increasingly large pool of abilities and jobs to experiment with. The game was shaping up to be a pretty good RPG. It had some problems, but it compensated for those problems and did some very unique and interesting things.

And then you get to chapter 5 and you have to reawaken the crystals a total of 16 times. Bosses included. That isn't a huge problem. By no means an unforgivable design choice. After all, most RPGs feature some degree of repetition. What really bothered me, however, was the spike in difficulty. And by difficulty, I mean enemy stats. Basically, the enemies all get a huge level increase. To illustrate, I was at level 60 at the start of chapter 5. The bosses in the previous chapter were a tad easy, but I didn't feel overpowered by any means. But with chapter 5, I had to put a lot of effort into beating any of the bosses (optional ones included). In order to stand a chance, I had to grind up 10 levels. What this means is that I spent hours grinding to be rewarded with refighting the same bosses over again. Chapter 6 was okay, but then I had to grind up another 10 levels for chapter 7. Chapter 8 was okay as well, but I did have to grind another 5 levels before the first battle with Airy and another 4 before the final boss. If you've been keeping track, that means that the game expects you to max your characters out at level 99 through sheer grinding. Remember, the numerous optional bosses in these chapter only earn you Job Points, not EXP that counts towards leveling up. This means that your only option is to grind on small fries that dish out 4000 EXP at best. When each individual level requires, 50,000; 60,000; and then 70,000 EXP, monotony begins to set in. This would be somewhat tolerable if you were doing this for the sake of new content. After all, I beat Mother 1, which arguably required more grinding. And I enjoyed that game. The key difference here, was that I was grinding to see something new. To meet a new character, or a wacky new boss, or an inspired new setting. Putting in the time to grind in Mother was genuine work, but it was worth the effort because you were being rewarded with something new and interesting. That reward and the mystery of what new thing you would see kept pushing you forward. It was a light at the end of the tunnel that was worth grinding for. In Bravely Default, that light is something you already fought 40 hours ago. You are putting up with hours upon hours of grinding to fight a boss you already fought 40 hours ago..

The story also falls apart at the end too. Am I the only one who thinks randomly turning your game's universe into a multiverse only cheapens the experience? And the whole message about "having the courage to be defiant" or, if you're taking the story symbolically, "having the courage to become an atheist" is undermined because the good ending is unlocked by doing exactly what Airy tells you to do, EVEN AFTER YOU FIND OUT SHE IS WORKING FOR THE VILLAIN. The title screen even changes so that red text pops up saying "Airy Lies". The game is practically screaming at you, "Don't trust this person! She is evil!", but you still have to do exactly as she says to unlock the good ending. And it feels kind of like the game should've ended with chapter 4. Or maybe have a 5th chapter to tie things up. Most of the twists that do happen with the game's story as it is now could fit into that hypothetical 5th chapter as well. Just not as protracted and monotonous as it is now. Instead, Bravely Default abruptly falls apart for the final 4 chapters (which, in my case, lasted for 25 hours), only to somewhat tie things together at the very end. By that point I didn't care about the story at all because it was contradicting its core theme and didn't care enough to explain all of the new concepts and twists it was introducing. The ending in particular left me scratching my head and feeling unfulfilled. Did the four heroes return to their original world? Then why is Edea's father still alive? Did they all split up and go to different versions of their world? Were we even seeing the four heroes we played as, or different ones in different worlds? Why do we get a shot of another set of heroes fighting another version of Airy, when the one and only Oroboros is dead. Why did Ringabel stay aboard the Grandship when his last conversation with Datz and Zatz was about how the ship was going to fall apart at any minute? What the fuck is going on with Tiz giving back his "gift" in the graveyard and then passing out? Why was my face floating in the background of space during the final boss fight?

What's so frustrating about all of this is that the game was in the clear at the end of Chapter 4. All it had to do was not fuck up the ending. It could've gone down in the books as a great RPG that closed in at a pleasant 30-40 hours. But for whatever reason, enough people on the development team thought it would be a good idea to toss in 25 hours of bullshit at the end. This was a genuinely good game that fell apart at what should have been the end.

I see a lot of people talking about the game as being great overall, with this final half being a tiny flaw that can easily be overlooked. I simply do not see how that is realistic, considering that 25 hours of this 60 hour game were not fun. I've heard other people say that these chapters aren't that bad because by the time they got to chapter 5 they were already at level 99 and maxed out all of the job levels. Well yeah, if you're 30 levels above where you should be, the game becomes a breeze. That doesn't mean it's well designed or isn't flawed, it just means that you're over-prepared.

I will say, however, that the final bosses were very well designed. They looked imposing, had awesome music, and were an exciting challenge. I liked how the streetpass features were incorporated into the multiverse when Oroboros started destroying a bunch of worlds. That's really the only positive thing I can say about that twist.

If I do return to this game in the future, I will stop at the end of that wonderful first half.

Finally, the surprise teaser for Bravely Second was intriguing. It gives me genuine hope that the sequel will improve upon the flaws of Bravely Default and deliver an exceptional experience that remains worthwhile the entire way through. If it manages to do that, then we're in for something truly special.
07/13/14, 07:50   
Edited: 07/13/14, 10:14
Just finished the game tonight myself.

After getting the true ending, I decided to go back and do the "bad" ending. It was much more enjoyable to me; hell even the scenes during the credits were better.
07/18/14, 08:12   
@Hero_Of_Hyrule Some notes on your inquiries about the ending: If I'm not mistaken, Braev is never killed in any of the worlds. He's just defeated and passes out, at least according to Lord DeRosso. Tiz's 'gift'... well, it apparently wasn't Tiz. His body was possessed by a being from the Celestial Realm in order to protect and guide Agnes. You get your first hint from your first battle with Mephilia, when she notes that there's another spirit residing in Tiz before she dies. Ouroboros even mentions that Tiz houses the presence of a Celestial being just before the final battle. During the ending, the entity returns Tiz's body to the world by leaving it and returning home. I'm not certain if Tiz passes out or dies as his body collapses. I didn't get to see all of the special movie at the end which gives some clues as to his fate. As far as the group facing off against Airy again, I think Ringabel went back to his world, possibly at some point before they faced off against Airy, and he resumed his identity as Alternis Dim and vowed to save all his friends, as he failed to do so before.
07/18/14, 11:26   
@Cryojin

Thanks for clearing some of that stuff up. I don't know if I enjoy the ending any more, but I do understand it better.
07/19/14, 03:45   
Started this the other day. Loving it so far. I've been made aware of certain things about the game so hopefully they don't bother me like other people.
12/19/14, 23:27   
I hope you enjoy your time with the game. What setups have you gone with for your characters in terms of classes?
12/20/14, 03:00   
I only have two classes so far. I have Tiz and Ringabel as Freelancers and Agnes as a Monk. I was going to make Tiz a white Mage (to shake things up from the usual) but the tutorial said that Freelancers get new abilities as they level up as well so I kept him as a Freelancers.
12/20/14, 03:09   
@PogueSquadron

Well they all get new abilities
12/20/14, 04:48   
I know but for some reason I assumed the "blank slate" type of job didn't get anything for some reason.

Had a really tough time with the boss of the fort area. The status changes were killing me. I did buy se Poisona and Blindna as I was finishing some grinding, but the better solution seemed to be to just make everyone Monk and Brave the hell out of that guy. Edea didn't last the fight but the boss went down really quickly.

Now I'm stuck on the Knight Captain Guy, but I haven't had a chance to fight him much. Might be time to try some new strategies. I haven't done anything with the new black Mage job.
12/20/14, 07:42   
Okay so I've put about 26 hours into the game thus far. I think I'm inching my way to the fire crystal. I'm in the mines rescuing people. The game really has hit a lull in the past few hours. I thought the Florem stuff was great, as you could see that that the effects of the crystals wasn't completely environmental. There was stuff going on that was really just changing people's attitudes and personalities. It kind of reminded me of Illusion of Gaia in a way. The story from a macro level isn't all that interesting, but there was some cool stuff going on in the moment that was really engaging.

Fast forward to the Fire Crystal stuff and I'm practically falling asleep. The amount of dialogue in the game seems to have tripled. I play the game at night which probably doesn't help, but I really have no idea who half of these people are. Basically the continent is at war and there are shield bearers and stuff. It's kind of a snooze job at the moment. I know there's a point in which the game starts to turn people off (which I imagine comes when the game repeats itself), but is this a love/hate part of the game as well? Really not digging the story stuff. I just traversed the entire world to get the Performer asterisk, which was kind of cool but also pretty tedious.

I also feel like I don't know where I'm at with the difficulty right now. I took down the performer after one game over. Most minor enemies don't phase me at all so I've turned battling off for the moment. Some minor enemies crush me though. There's this giant turtle thing in the mine that straight up wrecks me. Not really sure how to take it down. Might have to Examine it and figure it out.


Anyway, I REALLY posted to say this - this game's music is fucking amazing. It's up there with Xenoblade and Shovel Knight as my latest examples of "If you think game music isn't any good anymore, listen to THIS." It's like what Final Fantasy should've turned into. This JPop group or whatever that they brought in, they freaking killed it. I'm listening to it now. The soundtrack really feels like it has everything. Five stars on that front.
01/26/15, 19:04   
I finally bought this game since I recently cleared out some backlog by beating Etrian Odyssey and SMT IV. It is currently downloading and will most likely take the rest of the evening!! I am looking forward to playing this; I wanted it ever since it came out, but I was distracted by my flashy new ps4. Now I am finally getting back into playing only RPGs again and it is time for this game.
02/04/15, 03:25   
Just wrapped up stuff with the Fire Crystal and am doing some whodunnit in a mansion. The last several hours of this game have...not been so good. I'm skipping text at this point. I don't care about Zats or any of these people whatsoever. The main thing keeping me going with the story at this point are some hunches I have about certain characters, though this is also slightly informed by some things I know about the game. I think I still could've predicted this if I was in the dark though.
02/04/15, 22:43   
I finally played and beat this game recently so I decided to check in here to see if there were any interesting conversations to comment on.

@Hero_Of_Hyrule My thoughts align with a lot of what you say here. I can't think of any other game that had such a downturn in its second half after being so good, I don't think I've ever seen a game crash and burn this badly. And it's a real shame, because there's a lot to like about this game, but it was tough at times to slog through some parts.

I also don't think the story choice for the second half was necessarily bad, it just wasn't handled well at all. I think the main problem is how drawn out it is, and also how dense it makes the characters look. Since so much is repeated over the final four chapters, a lot of what happens could have been condensed into two chapters at most, maybe even one if they did it right. And it takes way too long for the characters to think something is up, and start asking more questions... but even after they suspect something, they still keep going along with it for several more chapters. It's just stupid. And yeah the difficulty balance is also thrown all out of whack, which is a real shame as well.

The main story is pretty plain for the most part, but I thought the skits were good. Probably because they actually show some personality for the characters.

Now, here's where we differ a bit. You talk about how you had to grind up levels to complete the game, but I think, if you had to do this, you were focusing on the wrong thing. I've found that regular character levels don't really matter much, and after you reach base 50, it becomes all about the job levels. Sure, levels can still help some by having more HP, but what really matters now is setting up a good combination of job abilities. You're not intended to just reach lvl 99 and power through the rest, you need to experiment with jobs and come up with setups to counter the enemies you'll meet. I actually like this approach because it made the jobs a lot more worthwhile than they would be had you just been able to slaughter everything at 99. And this is why most bosses only give JP, since JP matters most. I didn't have this problem you had because I focused on jobs, and found setups to handle what the game threw at me.

Heck, it's even possible to beat the game at character lvl 1. That's how important jobs are.
04/20/15, 23:55   
I don't have time to read through this now but in tempted to buy this game after hearing some music. What's the general consensus now that it's been out?

Great single player campaign? How does it compare to other Nintendo rpgs? Should I just bite?
06/29/15, 19:31   
@DrFinkelstein The music selection in the game is pretty limited. For example, there are only three dungeon themes that play throughout the entire game, which is less than the original Final Fantasy on NES. After hearing good things about this game's soundtrack, I was actually disappointed by that aspect and a bit surprised it has received such praise.

I'm not sure why you specified "single player" as there is no multiplayer in this game. I would say it compares decently to other Nintendo RPGs, particularly the old-school ones on SNES, and some on DS. The game was originally a Final Fantasy spin-off so it has some ties with that series (including similar magic spell names and functions), though it also has some similarities with Dragon Quest, mostly DQ IX as the class system is quite similar to that, as well as Final Fantasy V. If you liked games like those, you'll probably like this one.

However, the game is about as mixed as bags come. The story is pretty straightforward, though the "skits" do show some more personality and can sometimes be entertaining. This game has some nice features like being able to adjust the random encounter rate and difficulty of enemies on-the-fly, but it also has some pretty boneheaded design decisions in the second half of the game. I'm not sure how much I can talk about that part though since it's tough not to without spoilers. Some of the posts just above this talk about it, although with lots of spoilers involved. I'll try to sum it up in vagueness, but I'll still spoiler this line just in case: The second half of the game is all rehashed content from the first half, so you repeat the same stuff with little differences. There's also a huge difficulty spike here and it gets very uneven.

I would say the two best things about this game are the brave/default mechanics in battle, and the various ways classes can be mixed and matched. To get the most out of this game, you have to be into leveling up the classes and experimenting with different combinations in fights. If the main thing you're looking for is a good story and world, look elsewhere.
06/29/15, 22:01   
@Mop it up

Hmm, sounds like I should wait and see how Bravely Second turns out and perhaps consider that. The spoiler-tagged portion you mentioned does not sound appealing. If the music is limited, then I might as well listen to it on YouTube to get my fix. A straightforward story isn't something I'd want right now. I'd want twists, turns, uniqueness. I guess I'll just love from afar.
06/30/15, 00:33   
@DrFinkelstein From what I've been reading about Bravely Second, it is a direct sequel to this game, so it will help to know the plot. Unfortunately, that also means the game has the same pitfalls, including the problem I put in spoilers above. In fact, things might even be worse this time... I guess I'll count this as a vague spoiler too: Bravely Second actually recycles some content from Bravely Default.
07/01/15, 21:50   
To me that would be more a reason to not play the first one. I could read the plot to prime myself but then not have to experience the same portions over again. Why the heck are they doing that if it didn't go over well in the first place?
07/01/15, 23:22   
Ok, so I'm pretty late to this party, but I have to say, over all, I love this game. This is the first RPG since FFVI that I've broken, and I love it. I'm at chapter 6 and have maxed lvl characters. But the main thing that intrigues me, and I'm avoiding spoilers here, is the Title Card, which I rarely see. Normally, a game is just ON when I'm playing it, but thanks to Badge Arcade, I now see Airy Lies on screen when choosing my save. Just wanted to point that out, since the game is making, in my opinion, some pretty subtle curves in story. Can't wait to finish.
01/09/16, 07:35   
OK, beat the game now. Everyone at level 99 with all jobs maxed too. Easiest game I've played for that. I enjoyed it, and I can't wait until the sequel!
01/21/16, 03:26   
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