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Damn, I think I may have messed up on Xenoblade. I didn't have the time to play it when it released, and now it's pretty rare and pricey. Looks like this is one where I will be punished for waiting... stupid Gamestop exclusivity.
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on: 12/16/12, 02:26 |
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Zero said:Honest question: how did Oblivion score so well if everyone is so down on it? And where were you guys when it released and was used to tear apart Twilight Princess?! It was the first time a lot of console owners played an Elder Scrolls game. Yes, there were ES games released previously, including the superior-to-Oblivion Morrowind, but they weren't big sellers on consoles. Oblivion got hyped to hell and back, and as your very first ES experience it can be really impressive to a lot of people. A big world to explore, at-the-time really nice graphics, etc. But if it wasn't your first then it was just, at least in my experience, baaaad. I was saying the same thing right after release, I have NEVER held the game in high regard. I still think Skyrim sacrifices far too much mechanical fidelity with its combat (especially since Far Cry 3 came out and proves open world combat doesn't have to SUCK) but the world is infinitely more interesting and just completely loaded with things to do. You're always doing something, and the random dragons and other enemies can make for some truly epic battles that can feel scripted at times with how well they can go -- and completely hilarious at others when a dragon flies upside down through the world.
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on: 12/16/12, 02:57 |
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Guillaume said:@Zero
Last I heard, Bethesda was "giving up" on that version of Skyrim and Sony stepped up and said "we wanna help". Never really heard anything since. And I think some DLC never came to the PS3 because of it. They're supposedly releasing all of the DLC on PS3 in 2013. "Early" 2013, to be exact. Not that this particularly matters; because it's still a shoddy, horrible port, even after a ton of patches (at least, this is what friends who own the game keep telling me). Fallout 3 proved it can be done, provided you have the foresight to wait for the Game of the Year/Complete edition. Admittedly, I doubt the PS3 version of Skyrim will ever escape the permanent beta phase it seems to be stuck in, so I doubt I'll ever play it.
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on: 12/16/12, 03:23 |
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When I was playing Xenoblade on many instances I thought to myself this game is the JRPG Skyrim (open world, quests, breathtaking scenery, tons of NPC, etc). And what a coincidence... Just like Skyrim when I put Xenoblade in my PS3 its completely unplayable.
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on: 12/17/12, 00:00 |
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12/17/12, 00:02 |
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@vids
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on: 12/17/12, 09:16 |
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@vidsBest thing I've read all day.
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on: 12/17/12, 13:12 |
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I'm suddenly extremely excited to see what their new game is....
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on: 12/17/12, 13:17 |
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@Xbob42Wow, elitist much? The game is well received by critics and gamers alike yet they're all wrong because ES was only good when it was only on PC. It reminds me of when gamers say no one truly likes nintendo games that we're all just blinded by nostalgia or ignorant of how much better games on other systems are. God forbid that people can be just as knowledgeable and intelligent as you but just have a different opinion.
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on: 12/17/12, 20:07 |
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@deathly_hallows...That's....not what he said at all. In fact he specifically said Morrowind was good, which was also on consoles, not just on PC. His point was that Oblivion was the first ES game most console players had experienced and they had no reference point as to it's quality. ...And IMO Morrowind sucked balls anyway  . I watched my brother play for a while and came away with a distinct impression of a boring and slow WRPG. Haven't bothered with an ES game because of it.
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on: 12/17/12, 21:29 |
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@deathly_hallows You will have to get back to me when you brush up on your reading comprehension skills. As Shadowlink said -- that isn't even close to what I said. In fact, that's so FAR from what I said, I think my head is going to explode. @Shadowlink Sorry, don't 'think watching your brother play' is a valid way to form an opinion on an in-depth game. ;p
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on: 12/17/12, 23:59 |
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@Xbob42Probably not. Watching my cousins stuck for two hours at the bottom of the Deku Tree didn't exactly exactly endear me to Ocarina of Time. And look how that turned out  . Still though, imagine watching someone wander around an empty wastland until stumbling across an enemy, and the ensuing fight going a bit like this: *Cast fireball*- Fail. *Cast fireball*- Fail. *Cast fireball*- Fail. *Cast fireball*- 22 damage! *Cast fireball*- Fail. Yuck.
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on: 12/18/12, 00:32 |
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I used to think JRPGs were stupid watching my cousin play them, but then I finally tried them, and got hooked. I'm still not sure that I could ever get into one of these big open WRPGs though, the core gameplay always feels weak. I did enjoy Mass Effect 2, but it's like way, way different... it's more of a linear corridor shooter when it comes down to it. Even so, my biggest complain about that game is the core gameplay too. I guess that is true with a lot of JRPGs as well, but I think they have a bit more focus. Playing through Demon's Souls I was like "this is how the gameplay of Oblivion should have felt..." But then, that game had the whole not enough checkpoints issue for me, but still. Liked it way more than Oblivion.
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on: 12/18/12, 00:44 |
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12/18/12, 00:47 |
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@ZeroI'm kind of the same way with those. I liked the ME games, but the only other WRPG with combat that I really enjoyed was Kingdoms of Amalur.
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on: 12/18/12, 00:49 |
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@ZeroDo give Fallout a shot one day. The quasi-turned-based combat is genuinely fun and interesting. Not as interesting and fun as in Fallout 1 and 2, IMO, but they did a good job updating it for console gamers and for the first person viewpoint.
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on: 12/18/12, 00:50 |
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It's on my short-list. I honestly don't think I will get to a lot of these games until the PS3 dies though. Because I'm probably not buying a PS4 right away, so I can use the in-between time to catch up on everything I missed.
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on: 12/18/12, 01:06 |
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@Xbob42It still boils down to people only liking Oblivion because they were too ignorant to realize it wasn't good, which simply isn't true, hard to believe but many many people (including those who played the other ES games) actually thought it was a good game for legitimate reasons, like having lots of fun playing it.
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on: 12/18/12, 05:00 |
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12/18/12, 05:17 |
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Guillaume said:@Zero
Do give Fallout a shot one day. The quasi-turned-based combat is genuinely fun and interesting. Not as interesting and fun as in Fallout 1 and 2, IMO, but they did a good job updating it for console gamers and for the first person viewpoint. True that. I was thinking about making a thread about this, except way more broad. The wrpg which has completely taken over consoles is the evolution of three very distinct styles of rpg from the mid 90s to early 2000s. You have the BioWare and Black Isle (honestly the best fucking rpg makers in the history of Earth) D&D based gameplay from Baldurs Gate, BG2, Planescape, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights, etc that morphed into KOTOR, Jade Empire, Dragon Age and Mass Effect. You have Interplay's other baby Fallout which morphed into Fallout 3 (with some offshoots like Arcanum) and then you have what Bethesda did which is totally separate from anything else which has become the modern Elder Scrolls games. Viewed through this prism it makes you respect Bethesda a fuck of a lot more than BioWare. All of the modern Elder Scrolls games, and yes I put Oblivion in this category because I'm not a bandwagon jumper and I really liked the game when it came out, feel like the older ES games. Bethesda managed the almost impossible, they took a very hardcore, niche PC wrpg game and managed to give it mass, mass appeal but still stay true to it's roots. Skyrim is a brilliant game but it doesn't feel like a dumbed down game. I wish I could say the same for the new age BioWare titles. Dragon Age Origins was the last great game BioWare made. And it was great and amazing because it was a streamlined, modern version of BG2. Baldurs Gate 2 is still ten times deeper, much longer and has a hell of a lot more content, however if you've ever played BG or NWN or any of the D&D based isometric classics, it felt legitimate. Mass Effect, the first one, to a much, much lesser degree felt the same way. Watching what happened by the third Mass Effect and the sequel to Dragon Age, the old Black Isle formula is all but dead which is a fucking shame. I'm playing Neverwinter Nights 2 right now and while it's certainly rough around the edges the core gameplay, how you can develop your character (which honestly is staggering, people have written hundreds of pages on it), is still very much in tact. Anyhow it's interesting if none the less. Thankfully there are a whole host of classics I've never beaten that I can still look forward to. Really though what BioWare has done with what Black Isle left them may have made them famous and may have made them a bunch of money however they have been in a steady decline with a few high points (ME1/DA:O) since KOTOR. In short I want someone to licence the old Infinity Engine off of BioWare, maybe up the resolution on the pre-rendered textures and make a new Planescape or Baldurs Gate. Those games were so vastly superior to the likes of Dragon Age 2, even now... no rose colored glasses, I'm talking side by side right now at the end of 2012, it isn't even funny. Ha's off to Bethesda for making the transition with grace. Shame on BioWare for ruining my favorite genre. deathly_hallows said:@Xbob42
It still boils down to people only liking Oblivion because they were too ignorant to realize it wasn't good, which simply isn't true, hard to believe but many many people (including those who played the other ES games) actually thought it was a good game for legitimate reasons, like having lots of fun playing it. It was a good game, however Xbob's point stands. It was a vastly inferior product to Morrowind from pretty much every single gameplay perspective. It did however look great, and was the first console wrpg to really come out and shine since KOTOR, albeit in a very different way. I'm with you, the game was good and calling it trash is just silly, however as someone who played Morrowind for upwards of 500 hours, Oblivion was nowhere near the game it's predecessor was.
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on: 12/18/12, 05:31 |
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12/18/12, 05:35 |
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@OldmanwinterIf you're saying you preferred Morrowind to Oblivion that's one thing, but to suggest that a highly-praised game is absolute trash and all the millions people who said they enjoyed it only did so because they're ignorant and feeble-minded "console gamers" is another. As far as what you said about Bethesda doing a better job at making the WRPG genre more accessible for a wider audience than Bioware, I totally agree. Maybe Bethesda RPGs aren't as deep and complex as the old days but they also don't feel dumbed down, they are still rich experiences.
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on: 12/18/12, 06:46 |
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12/18/12, 06:52 |
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deathly_hallows said:@Oldmanwinter
If you're saying you preferred Morrowind to Oblivion that's one thing, but to suggest that a highly-praised game is absolute trash and all the millions people who said they enjoyed it only did so because they're ignorant and feeble-minded "console gamers" is another.
As far as what you said about Bethesda doing a better job at making the WRPG genre more accessible for a wider audience than Bioware, I totally agree. Maybe Bethesda RPGs aren't as deep and complex as the old days but they also don't feel dumbed down, they are still rich experiences. Well first off I didn't say Bethesda made it more accessible than BioWare, I said they did so while still maintaining the depth and general qualities ES was known for a decade ago. BioWare has all but ruined the old Baldur's Gate D&D formula in the name of streamlining and it's a shame. Not that I don't still enjoy their games, it's just they have completely abandoned party based, deep leveling and skill based systems in favor of almost no role playing (in the stats, level progression, multi-classing, etc sense) and all action. Bethesda has streamlined the shit out of games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim compared to say Fallout 2 and Daggerfall however Skyrim, at least in my opinion, is still very much an Elder Scrolls game. Fallout 3 felt like Fallout. Dragon Age 2 though? It has almost nothing in common with Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter or even Dragon Age: Origins. It's a console based action game. The same thing happened to Mass Effect. Again they are good games however when the baseline product is one of my favorite genres ever, to completely abandon it in favor of making what amounts to 3rd person action games with lots of dialog I find it mildly depressing. As to Oblivion I played the shit out of it and I really enjoyed it. It wasn't anywhere near as good as Morrowind was for the time it was released however honestly I thought it was a very good game. And even if Oblivion was dumbed down for consoles (which it was), Bethesda didn't do anything even close to approaching the bait and switch BioWare did between DA:O and DA2. As to Morrowind, when that game came out it blew my mind. I became obsessed with it. I played it for literally like four months straight, and then another year casually afterwards. It was the game that really got me into PC gaming (previously to this game I was primarily a console gamer) and it will forever hold a place as one of the absolute best games I've ever played for the time released. I've gone back and played it since and it doesn't have the same hold it once did, primarily because it's so dated (honestly early 2000 3D games have not fared well, Deus Ex which is another one of my favorite games is another prime example), however the underlying mechanics and world to explore are staggering. Up there with Baldur's Gate 2 and Deus as, in my opinion, one of the greatest wrpgs ever made... or flat out games made period.
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on: 12/18/12, 07:02 |
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12/18/12, 07:06 |
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I absolutely, 100% stand by my assessment that Oblivion is trash. You may like it, most people may disagree, but I think it failed in every single aspect that matters. The gameplay was horrendous, from traveling to fighting to interacting with NPCs, all the acting was worthless except the King who you saw for like 14 seconds, the world was big but lifeless, you never felt more powerful, everything was randomly generated (not per playthrough, either, so everyone got the same shitty randomized-at-development world until Shivering Isles, which was good.) and the Oblivion gates were a joke. I'm sorry, but at no point in the game was I ever impressed, aside from the graphics for an open-world game, which were pretty damned good at the time. Just laughable now, though.
| Posted by |
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on: 12/18/12, 11:37 |
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