The short story is that Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency has started a Kickstarter to explore the stereotypes of females in video games. Or well, why not just hear it in her words?

I love playing video games but I’m regularly disappointed in the limited and limiting ways women are represented. This video project will explore, analyze and deconstruct some of the most common tropes and stereotypes of female characters in games. The series will highlight the larger recurring patterns and conventions used within the gaming industry rather than just focusing on the worst offenders. I’m going to need your help to make it happen!

The longer story is that because she is a self-proclaimed "feminist" (what this means in her case I'm really not sure, since everyone interprets this label differently when applying it to themselves) that anything she does somehow automatically becomes super controversial, and she has received rape threats and death threats and attempts to shut down this project from (primarily) male gamers. Because obviously if you disagree with feminism the way to get your point across is to tell a women she needs to be raped and murdered. (That was sarcasm, in case you missed it. This is not the correct way to express disagreement. At all.)

Personally I think that, all fears of succumbing to the feminist agenda aside (also sarcasm), projects like hers are necessary for the video game industry to truly mature. Gamers seem to love talking about the word "mature" a lot, so why do we rebel against actual maturity so much? I think that it's a good thing that she is sticking to her project, all threats aside. And whatever the case, it is ridiculous that people are fighting so hard to shut her up. Why not let her say what she has to say and if, after actually hearing it, you disagree with it, you are well within your rights to say something.

What do you guys think?

PS. As of this writing she has brought in $126,768 of her $6,000 Kickstarter goal. So things aren't completely dire. But this doesn't negate the abuse she has had to (and most likely will continue to) sustain just to get this project moving.

As of today this thread will be locked. What originally was meant to be a thread discussing the soon-to-be controversial Anita videos about female tropes in Video Games grew into something much more. We at Negative World absolutely love a good conversation and we will always encourage mature and respectful conversation. That said, the thread has had it's moments of polarization to the extreme in the past and recently. While at the moment I write this, the thread is rather calm,.. there has been a joint decision by the moderators of this site to close this particular thread down. The thread strayed way outside of the original bounds of it's intent. We have a different idea of how to frame this delicate and polarizing topic at Negative World.

For future installments of Anita's series we will either have a mod create a new official thread for it (as well as posting links to previous episodes) or we will use our already established Youtube Video thread. The latter could have easily been the original home for this thread if it wanted to. Discussion can continue as normal in the future thread but we ask to keep in mind that the topic should relate to Anita's videos and her message. Hear, analyze, and discuss that. This new location for this discussion will be established with the release of her next video. Please find patience till then.

Thank you from all of us at Negative World for understanding. ~ Negative World Moderation

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Oh god yeah sorry, agree with Guillaume here. She had way too many sexy moments that were clearly written into the plot just to be sexy moments. I suppose outside of this she was more well rounded than most video game females, but... I can't just ignore the blatant sexploitation and say "well you know, OTHER THAN THOSE CLEARLY PURPOSELESS TITTY SCENES, she is..."

The only shower scene in The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo is, if I recall correctly, right after she is exploited into giving head to the guy who now controls the money she is supposed to have access to. And it's not an appealing scene, at all. If anything it is a good example of how nudity doesn't always have to be sexually appealing. You can really feel her pain.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/19/12, 23:30

Disagree

HEAVY RAIN SPOILERS

Ok, the shower scene was gratuitous perhaps, but then I had already taken a shower with Ethan by this point and got a good look at his butt, so really... equally gratuitous treatment for both genders.

As for the attack on her during her dream, I didn't find that arrousing at all Gui... I found it intense and unsettling and scary.

The scene where she does the strip tease is where she's using her sexuality to dupe the dumb male. She's clearly uncomfortable with it and nervous as hell. The player's goal is to use it to distract him and take him out as quickly as possible. I would certainly not classify the scene as purposeless.

The only other scene I can think of is where she and Ethan find comfort in one another and the scene is tasteful and caring not unlike what you might expect if this were a movie instead of a video game.

She's presented as a complex female character who, yes, has sex and will use her sex appeal to get the information she needs, but the sex doesn't define her - it's just a part of her overall range and just one component of her multi-faceted storyline.

Posted by

nacthenud

on: 06/19/12, 23:48

@Guillaume

I don't think either were out of sync with the noir style that the game attempted to evoke.

Posted by

Kal-El814

on: 06/19/12, 23:57

Zero said:

Sean Penn for comparison.

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 00:04

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:07

@Mr_Mustache

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Posted by

Kal-El814

on: 06/20/12, 00:06

@nacthenud @Kal-El814 I'm just saying that it felt like the story clearly wrote in parts to have her naked, as opposed to the nudity feeling like it naturally fit the story. Maybe you guys disagree but it just felt very tacked on to me and obviously there for dudes to gawk at.

And the fact that there is a male shower scene doesn't really mean much. Actually I feel like that is the most generic way to try to pretend like you're not just throwing a female shower scene in to throw a female shower scene in. "But uh... there is totally a male shower scene too!"

@Mr_Mustache Disagree. I think her character is about as close as Hollywood gets to creating someone attractive to me.

Different strokes and whatever, I guess.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 00:07

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:45

@Zero
Outside of the optional shower scene, I felt like everything else fit naturally into the story and didn't feel like they were just there to have her naked at all. So, yeah, I guess we experienced those scenes differently. I guess someone might deliberately fail the strip tease scene in order to have her take off more clothes and just gawk, but when I played through, I was like, "Oh $#!%, this is not good!" and took him out asap. In the same way, I suppose someone could watch Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and slow-mo through the bewb shots, ignoring the context of the story, but that's a function of the viewer's approach to the movie, not the movie itself.

As for your discussion of there being a shower scene for both the man and the woman, I don't think it's fair to say that one was put in so that they could justify the other any more than it's fair to say that getting a butt-shot of Mel Gibson into Lethal Weapon was simply to justify also showing the breasts of a prostitute... No, there was simply some nudity as titilation for both the male and female audience put into this movie.

Posted by

nacthenud

on: 06/20/12, 00:21

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:29

nacthenud said:

I guess someone might deliberately fail the strip tease scene in order to have her take off more clothes and just gawk, but when I played through, I was like, "Oh $#!%, this is not good!" and took him out asap. In the same way, I suppose someone could watch Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and slow-mo through the bewb shots, ignoring the context of the story, but that's a function of the viewer's approach to the movie, not the movie itself.

I'm not sure if this is an accurate comparison. One involves working within the natural framework of the video game experience... and of course a ton of people are going to go the more boobies route, because despite the game's claims that it's uber dynamic and one wrong choice can make a huge difference... there really aren't many negative consequences in that game for "failing" unless you repeatedly fail over and over and over. (Also we kind of know from experience that video game developers will never penalize us for choosing boobs.) The other involves pulling yourself outside of the natural framework of the movie experience.

nacthenud said:

No, there was simply some nudity as titilation for both the male and female audience put into this movie.

Hmm. Poll the females you know and ask them how many seriously get excited by naked male ass in movies. It's really not comparable. In fact, 9 times out of 10 when you see it in a movie it is for COMEDY effect.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 00:49

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:51

Zero said:

@Mr_Mustache Disagree. I think her character is about as close as Hollywood gets to creating someone attractive to me.

Different strokes and whatever, I guess.

Haven't we had this conversation before?? I swear we have..nearly word for word.

@Zero

"Poll the females" sounds horrendously crude when spoken out loud. Thats even worse than "banging" OR "porking."

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 00:52

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:53

I didn't say pole the females, I said poll the females. Sheesh.

And yeah, maybe we have had a conversation like this before. I dunno.

Anyway I'm not saying that alternative forms of female attraction can't be exploited. Of course they can. I just think she's a great character overall and they presented her as sexual without exploiting it too much. Her looks are just one part of things.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 00:55

Edited:

06/20/12, 00:56

@Zero

When I read, I hear the words in my head. I usually know the way a song is going to go after the first few seconds, too, and I can sing the chorus on the 2nd run. I'm magical!

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 00:56

Mr_Mustache said:

I usually know the way a song is going to go after the first few seconds, too

That's not magic, that's because 95% of pop songs follow essentially the same formula. Generally using one of the like... ten or so accepted chord progressions for a pop song. But that is a whole other can of worms.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 00:59

@Zero

Who said I was talking about Pop songs?

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 00:59

Me!

...no really, what songs? I use "pop" loosely. As in, anything that is even remotely popular. Mind you, most stuff that isn't popular is formulatic as well. Not much music period breaks the formulas.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 01:32

Edited:

06/20/12, 01:33

@Zero
If you're deliberately failing a game in order to see boobs, I take that as removing yourself from the narrative of the game in order to ogle boobs. I don't see how that is any different from removing yourself from the narrative of a movie in order to ogle boobs. Some guy is going to fail in order to get a look at digital boobs. Another guy is going to rewind the movie and/or hit pause or slow-mo in order to get a look at hollywood boobs. In either case, they're putting the continuation of the story on hold for the sake of getting a better look at boobs.

I saw no boobs when I played through that scene. She never removed her bra. Why? Because I was invested in the game and the character and caught up in the narrative.


@Zero
I've got more than a few female friends who went ga-ga over Mel Gibson's buttocks in that movie. That's why I mentioned it. Also, Jean Claude van Damme's in Bloodsport.

And when Chris Hemsworth walks around briefly with no shirt in Thor my wife fanned herself a little. She enjoyed a couple of choice scenes from Green Lantern too - and not because of the compelling acting or rich complex character work going on at the time.

Posted by

nacthenud

on: 06/20/12, 01:47

Edited:

06/20/12, 01:52

@Zero

I dunno, stuff at karaoke I've never heard (but probably should've)? Pfft, whatever.

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 02:11

@nacthenudIt's not really "failing" though if you understand how the game works. I don't think that there is any penalty for having her get down to the nude. And anyone who has played the game would know that there wouldn't be by that point, because the game hands out penalties incredibly rarely.

Whatever the case, one of the main draws of video games is discovery and if you're pandering to a population who wants to see digital titties, you can't claim that if they played the game "right" they would never have seen them so therefore it isn't pandering when anyone interested in A. boobs and B. discovery would naturally want to see how that scene plays out. Are we really going to ask players to play the game "right" when they could be out discovering things?

Trust me, Quantic knew what they were doing. In some ways risque boobs is more exciting than normal boobs even, no? I mean, I don't even care about digital boobs but I played that scene out just because I was curious as to whether they were going to take it that far. Whereas if they had a simple option "look at boobs / don't waste your time" I'd have gone with don't waste my time.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 03:07

Edited:

06/20/12, 03:09

@Zero

You just said you appreciate exploration. How is "don't waste your time" exploration? What if attempting to look at boobs gets you slapped across the face or something? Heck, in Donkey Kong Country 2 you have the option to "Fight!" Klubba if you don't have enough tokens, and it is essentially the same result as "Leave." You wouldn't expect that.

Posted by

Mr_Mustache

on: 06/20/12, 03:13

I just meant that if there were two options and I KNEW exactly what each was, then seeing digital boobs wouldn't really be appealing to me. If for some reason I was into seeing digital boobs I'm sure there are a million places to find them online. It's not really exploration when you know exactly what is going to happen, right?

The thing about a game like Heavy Rain is you don't always know for sure what is going to happen. I'd usually let most scenes play out a lot longer than I had to just because I was interested in seeing where they went... and because I learned early on that you can let the scenes go for a pretty darn long time before "failing" them. I even made bad choices on purpose a few times just to see what would happen. Usually... nothing bad happened. You almost have to go out of your way (or just be really, really bad at mimicking buttons / motions that you see on screen) to have anything permanently bad happen to you in this game.

Posted by

Zero

on: 06/20/12, 03:21

Maybe you felt comfortable letting things play out, feeling secure that you wouldn't have anything bad happen to you, but I sure didn't. From everything I knew at the time, characters could die permanently and there were many bad endings as well as good endings depending on what you did in the game. With this understanding, I never deliberately let any scenes in the game play out longer than necessary for the sake of "exploration". I was caught up in the story and the characters. I had a gun pointed at me and was being forced to strip. When this scene was taking place, I was afraid for Madison, not curious about the programming behind the scenes. I didn't give a darn about seeing her boobs at that point; I was more concerned with getting her the heck out of that situation.

Sure, after I finished the game, I went back and replayed the scene (and many other non-nudity-related ones) to see how far it could have gone, but that's the equivalent of rewinding the movie to the boobie part.

Posted by

nacthenud

on: 06/20/12, 03:42

Edited:

06/20/12, 03:46