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Tropes Vs Women in Video Games, Somehow a Controversy? (+ general gender / video game discussion)
[locked]
News reported by 
Editor-in-chief
June 14, 2012, 17:58:56
 
The short story is that Anita Sarkeesian of Feminist Frequency has started a Kickstarter to explore the stereotypes of females in video games. Or well, why not just hear it in her words?

I love playing video games but Iím regularly disappointed in the limited and limiting ways women are represented. This video project will explore, analyze and deconstruct some of the most common tropes and stereotypes of female characters in games. The series will highlight the larger recurring patterns and conventions used within the gaming industry rather than just focusing on the worst offenders. Iím going to need your help to make it happen!

The longer story is that because she is a self-proclaimed "feminist" (what this means in her case I'm really not sure, since everyone interprets this label differently when applying it to themselves) that anything she does somehow automatically becomes super controversial, and she has received rape threats and death threats and attempts to shut down this project from (primarily) male gamers. Because obviously if you disagree with feminism the way to get your point across is to tell a women she needs to be raped and murdered. (That was sarcasm, in case you missed it. This is not the correct way to express disagreement. At all.)

Personally I think that, all fears of succumbing to the feminist agenda aside (also sarcasm), projects like hers are necessary for the video game industry to truly mature. Gamers seem to love talking about the word "mature" a lot, so why do we rebel against actual maturity so much? I think that it's a good thing that she is sticking to her project, all threats aside. And whatever the case, it is ridiculous that people are fighting so hard to shut her up. Why not let her say what she has to say and if, after actually hearing it, you disagree with it, you are well within your rights to say something.

What do you guys think?

PS. As of this writing she has brought in $126,768 of her $6,000 Kickstarter goal. So things aren't completely dire. But this doesn't negate the abuse she has had to (and most likely will continue to) sustain just to get this project moving.

As of today this thread will be locked. What originally was meant to be a thread discussing the soon-to-be controversial Anita videos about female tropes in Video Games grew into something much more. We at Negative World absolutely love a good conversation and we will always encourage mature and respectful conversation. That said, the thread has had it's moments of polarization to the extreme in the past and recently. While at the moment I write this, the thread is rather calm,.. there has been a joint decision by the moderators of this site to close this particular thread down. The thread strayed way outside of the original bounds of it's intent. We have a different idea of how to frame this delicate and polarizing topic at Negative World.

For future installments of Anita's series we will either have a mod create a new official thread for it (as well as posting links to previous episodes) or we will use our already established Youtube Video thread. The latter could have easily been the original home for this thread if it wanted to. Discussion can continue as normal in the future thread but we ask to keep in mind that the topic should relate to Anita's videos and her message. Hear, analyze, and discuss that. This new location for this discussion will be established with the release of her next video. Please find patience till then.

Thank you from all of us at Negative World for understanding.
~ Negative World Moderation

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Posted: 06/14/12, 17:58:56  - Locked by 
 on: 08/22/13, 04:37:22    
 
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@Zero

We got really close to common understanding towards the end of that chat. Much closer than has been accomplished between any two people in this thread, or the greater "understanding" in general.

Also, I'm in no way enamored with the process of """academic publication""". I think that's kind of a joke actually. It's way more about career advancement than informing the populous (y'know, the people not reading the journals). I'm just a fan of good research.... call me crazy.

And yea, if I didn't think it was possible for you to understand what I'm saying, I wouldn't even try to talk with you in another setting. But I know that you're very smart and aside from you strange fixation on Stache in regard to this subject, also very reasonable. So, yea, I am DAMN confident we would accomplish something in a one on one discussion. MUCH better than here.... where, for instance, you misinterpreted(misunderstood?) my concept of "the importance of prevalance" and went flying off in some other direction. That sort of thing takes seconds to undo into synchronous communication, but potentially days in a forum format. Again, call me crazy.

For now, I'm out.... again .... I'm sure I'll be back in a month or so when I've forgotten my lesson and think "hey, I wonder if they've made any progress in that thread that won't leave the front page yet inexplicably still contains the phrase 'somehow a controversy?' despite its edit."


Posted by 
 on: 07/21/13, 05:12:34
Watching like a girl, an article about how female sports fans are portrayed in the media which I found interesting. You could draw a few similarities with the portrayal of "girl gamers".


Posted by 
 on: 07/22/13, 23:18:44
@Zero

You gotta get out more. And lose the shirt.

@Guillaume

Ooh, does it mention how they go ca-razy for pop flies and think they're Home Runs?? As someone who actually goes to baseball games, every time a ball is airborne, female screams cascade down. Try it sometime. *Reading now.*

Alright, the usher was probably just trying to flirt and had no other in. Guys do it to Nikki all the time about ANYTHING, often when she's with me (BTW, she got a FREE ICE LEMONADE the other night for SIMPLY BEING FEMALE. Pretty Girl Discount, "FTW." No complaints.). I suggest watching Jerry Seinfeld's "I'm telling you for the last time;" he has a bit on guys whistling at girls and honking at horns to get a girl's attention" Why?....because this is the best idea we've come up with." Lots of guys don't know HOW to talk to girls, and they'll pick any excuse to make conversation with a beautiful woman. And doing so IN PASSING (not, like, working up the courage to talk to some girl at work, but just running into a girl somewhere?), its By God Near Impossible.

We went to an apartment complex picnic thing last week, and the BBQ Guy led in asking if I was taking my kid to the picnic (inferring that Nikki looked way too young in her Chibi Wolverine T-Shirt), and when we corrected him, he acted like she was 40, which she obviously doesn't look. Nobody was offended, thats just how some people are. If an usher told Nikki how many strikes made an out, we'd probably feel bad for the guy and politely laugh it off while telling him to have a good night.

As for "Women and Sports," Ms. Fowles (seriously? Her baseball-loving last name rhymes with "fouls?") is in the DEEP minority when it comes to this..and I say this because I know it. Heck, most GUYS don't even do a scorecard at the game. They go out there, watch stuff, eat stuff, sit with their family, talk about things, and eat food. I know ONE girl who would possibly bring a scorecard to a game; she spent most of Saturday night checking baseball scores on her phone at UR's 50th. Typical female fan doesn't do that. This is like me writing an article about how pissed I am because someone asked me if I needed help while shopping for Nikki in Victoria's Secret. I have quite the knowledge of lingerie through years of browsing / admiring / shopping for her; who the hell am I to say "WHOA. You would not believe how I just got treated. *SCOFF*"

I understand its probably more annoying for her since "baseball games" are more likely to be a weekly trip than "lingerie store," but come on. She's gotta realize she's in the minority there, and that doesn't warrant a Complaint Piece. She should graciously accept that she is -- my goodness, I don't even know how to put this -- "ADVANCED Academically in the Realm of Baseball." As mentioned earlier, I don't even know many GUYS who use a scorecard. I've done it once or twice on a trip. Maybe I'll do it Thursday.


And no, she didn't mentioned the girls screaming for pop flies.

But I can promise you you'll see THIS,:


FAR more often than you'll find a woman sitting there jotting down "6-3" or "F8" in their lap. Come on, now.


--How many of you guys even know what a "Backwards K" indicates? I'll wager she knows.


Posted by 
 on: 07/22/13, 23:50:42
@Mr_Mustache

I'm sure she's in the deep minority. That's not the point of the article. As you said, most guys wouldn't keep a scorecard either. Heck, in NYC Anand and I filled in the role of the people just there to watch people and stuff. No interest in the game at all.


Posted by 
 on: 07/22/13, 23:57:57
@Guillaume

Ehh, you were pretty excited in the beginning. I was actually most bummed FOR YOU after Anand "pulled an Anand."


Posted by 
 on: 07/23/13, 00:02:18
So according to her facebook page the third video should be hitting this week.

It also seems like she has not been capturing game footage herself but has actually been ripping footage from lets play videos already present on youtube. Link



Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 12:33:11
Mr_Mustache said:
Ehh, you were pretty excited in the beginning. I was actually most bummed FOR YOU after Anand "pulled an Anand."
This sounds dirtier than it was.

@warerare
I don't really see what difference it makes for her superficial analyses. To be fair, even if they weren't superficial, it still wouldn't make much of a difference. She isn't really analyzing the role of the player. That's more of a 'violence in video games' thing. Even then, it's more scientific to observe than participate. Not that she's scientific.

Man, that was all over the place.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 15:25:23
@warerare

Did she give credit to them?..in the credits?

--OK OK OK..wait wait wait... "Is this illegal? No, its not illegal, she's not monetizing these videos." EXCEPT she did the Kickstarter thing and got THOUSANDS of dollars with her reasoning for needing to seek out titles and spend so much time playing them. What the F'n F.... Anyone can copy a GD YouTube vid. FOR F'N FREE.

Man, she seems so slimy. I knew something was off with her.. Trust my instincts, people!


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:15:02
Yeah, I don't really think that it says much about whether she has or hasn't played the games. When I review games I get images from Nintendo instead of ripping them myself, it doesn't mean that I didn't play the games.

However, for something like this she should be obtaining permission first.

I could have sworn this was going to be about DIG-DUG.

@Mr_Mustache No it's not "illegal", you're over-reacting, and we do it at Negative World all the time, yourself included. I had to specifically state DO NOT USE WATERMARKED IMAGES really big several times for our stuff, and people still do it, and then I have to go edit stuff to get rid of them, etc. It's just the way the Internet works, few people create unique content anymore. I at least try to stick to images and such that have been ok'ed for use through Nintendo, but for some games that is tough.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:15:44  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:22:02
@Zero

I just agreed that it wasn't illegal! Stop reading my stuff with "what a jerk!" in your head before you even start.

I SAID that it was "slimy" because she's like "alright, I gotta acquire all of these games SOMEHOW and I gotta spend lots of time playing them!" and then turns around and goes "oh yeah, I can just get stuff from YouTube! For Free!"

--People use Watermarked stuff here? Wasn't me!


Dig Dug: The Paramount of the Female Arcade Gamer population.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:23:26
Mr_Mustache said:
--OK OK OK..wait wait wait... "Is this illegal? No, its not illegal, she's not monetizing these videos." EXCEPT she did the Kickstarter thing and got THOUSANDS of dollars with her reasoning for needing to seek out titles and spend so much time playing them.

It sounds like you're saying it wouldn't be illegal since she didn't monetize them, except she did monetize them, so...

Also, like I said, this says next to nothing about whether she played the games or not. We release reviews every other week and we almost never use our own media when we do so. Hell, we often link to Youtube trailers. This doesn't mean all of our reviewers are lying about playing the games.

It does mean we're a bit LAZY about getting our own media, and that's a fair complaint to level against Anita as well, especially since she has the money to deal with video capture / etc. (and we kind of don't really...) I'll be a bit disappointed if it turns out that she isn't creating any of her own media for this project. But I don't think it makes her a slimy liar.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:38:49  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:44:00
@Zero

I don't know about you guys, but when I link from YouTube for game stuff its because I don't have a video camera hooked up to my computer, or a way to ingest video....which Anita certainly does. If you send me 100 Grand, I'll be sure to use my own videos in reviews. I DID use my own pictures for my AWARD WINNING ARKHAM CITY REVIEW (see what you could be, Anita? If you just use your own stuff and put your mind to it, you could win awards on NW).

Zero said:
and that's a fair complaint to level against Anita as well, especially since she has the money to deal with video capture / etc.

*gasp!*......Exactly.


EDIT- Stop doing like 4 Edits after your initial thing!


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:43:32  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:44:10
The $100,000 ($158,922 to be precise) is a pointless number to keep throwing around though, she asked for $6,000 to cover the project. Anything people give beyond that works towards the stretch goals (which she is doing) and anything beyond that is just profit. She's allowed to make profit here, this is still Capitalism at the end of the day. Not everyone has to work a crappy day job like me just to squeeze in the stuff they really love doing for no pay after work when all energy and motivation have been drained by their soul crushing job.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 18:49:23
@Zero

You should do a Kickstarter then, and pursue life as you wish to. -JKR- will help you since he has the magic key.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 20:44:17
The problem is that I already BUILT most of the stuff that I wanted to, and I'm not sure where to go from here that would be worth asking for money for. Now it's mostly tweaks, maintenance, and clean-up. Tough to get people excited about giving money for that.

I think I have gotten like 3 donations in the last year, if that. But it's ok, the ad revenue isn't bad. People must be clicking all of that Wartunes stuff.


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 20:54:44  - Edited by 
 on: 08/01/13, 20:56:27
I should do an N Kickstarter.

Now to figure out the goal and rewards...


Posted by 
 on: 08/01/13, 23:15:17
Part 3 is up.



Posted by 
 on: 08/02/13, 01:26:25
@Stephen

Hey Anita - nice shirt!

Sooo, she DID record these all at the same time MONTHS AND MONTHS ago, or is she REALLY putting on the exact same outfit?? Again, thats WEIRD..something -I- would do. It is abnormal.

2 seconds in, already rolling my eyes. Girls screaming after being carried off by HUGE orc dudes. Pretty sure anyone being carried off by huge viking orcs would be fa-reakin out. And these look like little girls, like 8 year olds. Whats the problem? I wonder if Anita would have a problem with "women and children first" in the event of a huge boat going under. I pray she never has to make that decision and stubbornly martyr herself. Really.

Ehhhhh, debatable, Anita. I know a LOT of people who PREFERRED to play as Princess in Super Mario Bros. 2, male and female alike (including myself; Luigi became my favorite character overtime -- he couldn't FLY). Duane and Brand0's Mario 2 song says "the Princess is my character of choice (come on!) but my balls are too big for me to rap in that voice, so I jump really high, take a jog in the sky, hit the POW block throw a f***in' bird in your eye." Art.

And yeah, Anita; people/objects who fetch a high ransom (political figure, relative of a celebrity, expensive paintings, etc.) are usually the ones getting kidnapped, not a freakin' blue-collar PLUMBER. Use some common sense, eh? I know its "videogames" and all, but sheesh. Are you also surprised a lot of animals haven't been kidnapped? How about cashiers? Homeless people with no immediate family?

If we were playing Super Anita Sarkesian, there'd probably be like 8 moodswings..and they'd all be variants of "pissed." She seems far more emotional than Peach. Honestly. And Anita mentioned "PMS," not me.

This just in: Zero instantly loves games/movies with fat pig men. Why? Who the heck knows.

YES, SPICE WORLD!!! "Strength and courage and a wonder bra!" YEAHHHHH!!!

"Interchangeable with a dog." Shut the F up, UGH. She is the ONLY person who thought that. How does she sleep at night? I'm guessing she DOESN'T, and she spends 10pm to 6am being PISSED at the world. Sweet Lord Almighty..

Did anyone catch Super Meat Boy's phallic chainsaw? Just saying it before she does..

Cute wipe. --I WISH I could see how she does stuff. She obviously had the editing in mind while recording it. Why do these take so long to put up??

Yes, deeper voice often accompanies gained weight. Take a look at "real life." Maybe Fat Princess is a commentary on the obesity problem in America right now, Anita, think about THAT? No, I'm sure you haven't, as you are no doubt taut and blessed with better looks than a good number of women. She cares about her appearance, too. A lot. Nikki told me so. She's a girl.


"Trying to rescue the damsel actually makes you the villain." See: Friendzoned. Been there. And seen it.

Fake. That game wouldn't work. If she is so strong and cunning, how did she get captured and WHY would she sit there forever? She busted the freakin' door open. Why not do that on Day 1? Oh, maybe she got her back broken by Bane.. My mistake...


The games "feature women as perpetual victims."

Wow, sounds a lot like this YouTube video series I've watched a few episodes of.......


Posted by 
 on: 08/02/13, 02:13:32
I've never seen Anita pissed. Projecting a bit?


Posted by 
 on: 08/02/13, 03:21:47
@Zero

You can't tell? She's hiding it, man. Groan.

You gotta look beneath the layers. Do you hear how she talks about anything and everything?


Posted by 
 on: 08/02/13, 03:31:40
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