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Negative World Podcast 031 - Never Letting Go of Our Sega Disdain
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May 07, 2012, 03:27:05
 


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After a brief announcement, Guillaume welcomes veteran Anand and rookie David (a.k.a. Davoid) on the podcast's 31st episode. Amongst the games discussed: GNOMZ, Kid Icarus 3D Classics, Xenoblade, Etrian Odyssey, and more!

The gang then discusses what "Nintendo magic" is (and bashes Sega mercilessly along the way) and Nintendo's different shows and faces of PR. Someone sets the living room carpet on fire.

As usual, the theme music comes from Negative World's owner and dictator, Zero. The music throughout the podcast is taken from Kid Icarus: Uprising on 3DS.

Comment on the topics, the podcast, the guests, the host, etc. on Negative World! Or, be a weirdo and post them on Facebook or Twitter instead.

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Posted: 05/07/12, 03:27:05  - Edited by 
 on: 05/07/12, 03:28:19    
 
Why not sign up for a (free) account and create your own content?
 
@Zero

Until Link's Awakening came out, and did everything better. Forever.


Posted by 
 on: 05/25/12, 22:41:47
GTFO.

Link's Awakening is pretty awesome, but I don't feel like the dungeons were designed as well, the bosses weren't as memorable. Didn't like the overworld as much. Music wasn't as good. AND... holy cow it was annoying having to pause to switch items every three seconds.


Posted by 
 on: 05/25/12, 22:54:28
@GameDadGrant

Two words: Blast. Processing.


Posted by 
 on: 05/25/12, 23:56:25
@Guillaume
Yeah, but the stiffness of the original LoZ made it more hardcore. Like StarTropics!


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 00:07:21  - Edited by 
 on: 05/26/12, 00:07:32
nate38 said:
I was going to listen to this podcast but then you bashed sega so I won't now.


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 00:58:57
I made Anand reluctantly admit that Sega fans weren't insane!


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 01:00:43
Just listened to this Podcast.

Gui - I am so sad to hear that you are not going to be on the podcast anymore.

As a card-carrying classic-Sega fan I should really go on one of these podcasts someday so I can respond to some of the criticisms/misconceptions/etc. that get flung. I guess it's not a Sega podcast, but I find myself shaking my head at you guys with some of these comments.

Kudos to Gui for his level-headed comments that Sega fans, weren't just Sega fans because they didn't have access to Nintendo. I had regular access to both and was a fan of both. Classic Sonic still gets played by me as much as classic Mario Bros. Also, anyone who says Sonic was only about spectacle and speed hasn't really played classic Sonic games beyond the first zone. Sonic did have parts that were about speed and adrenaline, but it carefully balanced those parts with sections that were about slower, calculated platforming and exploration. Levels were highly replayable for their multiple routes, many of which were secrets or required some experimentation to find. Every time I replay these games, I still to this day find new secrets or parts of levels I hadn't seen in any of my playthroughs before.


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 02:24:21
nacthenud said:
[...]I should really go on one of these podcasts someday[...]
-Yes you should.


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 02:36:07
@Zero

GTFO

Link's Awakening took what A Link To The Past brought to the table and improved and expanded upon it ten-fold. In *every* aspect.

A Link to the Past was a fine 'starting ground' but the sequel did far more (and beyond) than tne old SNES game ever did. The best thing that can ve said about A Link to the Past is that it helped shape Link's Awakening into the game that it is.


Posted by 
 on: 05/26/12, 05:34:38
Ten-fold!

@nacthenud
Go! Go on the podcast! New perspectives are always welcome. And debates are fun.

By the way, I know that there are tons of paths and shortcuts in classic Sonic games, but the exploration and slower-speed platforming mechanics are so clunky that I wouldn't personally consider that aspect a primary part of the gameplay for most people. There are a lot of secrets in Sonic, but they seem way more obtuse than the ones in early Mario games.

I'll freely admit that I've put waaaay more time into Mario than Sonic, but I have played past the first level of a few. I played far enough to 1000-point the Sega Genesis Collection on 360, at least.

Guillaume said:
I made Anand reluctantly admit that Sega fans weren't insane!
Lies. I never admitted that. I said that it was possible.


Posted by 
 on: 05/27/12, 19:07:47  - Edited by 
 on: 05/27/12, 19:08:25
Still @Anand, there is no denying that Mario as a franchise has the Sonic franchise beaten both in quantity & quality. I know why there is a rivalry between the two franchises, but I don't think those should be compared. It just seems an unfair fight. Compare Sonic with Crash Bandicoot if you will, but not Mario.


Posted by 
 on: 05/27/12, 21:32:19  - Edited by 
 on: 05/28/12, 00:12:29
Link's Awakening is certainly the weirdest Zelda game, so I can understand why some would consider it the best in the series. It isn't my favourite, though.


Posted by 
 on: 05/27/12, 23:15:15
@Davoid
Hey, we don't want to alienate Sega fans for real!


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 17:01:10
Anand said:
Go! Go on the podcast! New perspectives are always welcome. And debates are fun.
Ok, well if we're discussing this seriously for a second... Things that stop me from volunteering for a podcast:
a) I don't own a mic.
b) Publicly doing things I don't already know how to do or know if I'll be any good at scare me.
c) My house is full of loud children and our computer is in the central living area of the house.
d) I feel like I need to catch up and listen to all the previous podcasts to know what has already been discussed first (I know I don't, but that' my personality type). I've been working on this, but I've got a long ways to go.
e) I have so little free time and my schedule is constantly booked up.
f) I don't have any particular topic in mind to discuss and any that I do have probably been discussed at length before.


Anand said:
By the way, I know that there are tons of paths and shortcuts in classic Sonic games, but the exploration and slower-speed platforming mechanics are so clunky that I wouldn't personally consider that aspect a primary part of the gameplay for most people. There are a lot of secrets in Sonic, but they seem way more obtuse than the ones in early Mario games.
I just don't get comments like that where you think the slower-speed mechanics are "clunky". Maybe it's a function of playing these games for so long, but I honestly can't relate to a comment like that. And it's not like I got better at it over the years or something - I mean as a kid I never had any problems with it either. Sonic handled very well in those classic Genesis games.

Anand said:
I'll freely admit that I've put waaaay more time into Mario than Sonic, but I have played past the first level of a few. I played far enough to 1000-point the Sega Genesis Collection on 360, at least.
Uh... So the trophies around the Sonic games in question in the Sega Genesis Collection on 360 are:

* Sonic The Hedgehog: Obtain a Chaos Emerald
* Sonic 3: Collect 100 rings with Tails anywhere on Angel Island Zone
* Unlock everything: One of the things necessary for this one is to beat the first boss in Sonic 2.

All of these are done or can be done on the first zone of their respective games. Now I'm not saying you haven't played past the first level, but you might not want to use the achievement point thing as evidence of this.

Davoid said:
Still @Anand, there is no denying that Mario as a franchise has the Sonic franchise beaten both in quantity & quality. I know why there is a rivalry between the two franchises, but I don't think those should be compared. It just seems an unfair fight. Compare Sonic with Crash Bandicoot if you will, but not Mario.
If you're talking about comparing the two franchises in 2012, then of course you are correct. If you're talking about comparing them back in the heyday of 16-bit glory, then I resoundingly disagree with your assertion.


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 20:31:11  - Edited by 
 on: 05/28/12, 20:45:51
@nacthenud

b) Don't worry, the NW podcast isn't THAT public, haha. And everyone who's been on it at any point save for Paleo, Fink and Rebonack, had never done it before, as far as I know.

d) Just check with Fink first, he'll tell you.

f) Talk to Fink, with me gone the format is changing quite a bit, and a topic may not be required.

For the rest, fair enough!


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 21:03:38
@nacthenud

I just want to thumbs up your defense of Sonic the Hedgehog. I can't relate to Anand's complaints, either, and I always find the criticisms of SEGA around here to be a bit overclocked. Mario vs. Sonic is no contest. Mario games are several degrees better, taken on the whole. But that doesn't mean the Genesis-era Sonic games are hugely flawed, especially when taken within the context of their times.

I'd still take Sonic 1-3 over Super Mario World or the SNES DKC games. Particularly the overrated DKC games.


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 21:42:26  - Edited by 
 on: 05/28/12, 21:43:30
Someone gifted me Sonic 3 & Knuckles for one of our Christmas gift things.

About 2? 3? stages into Sonic 3 there is an uber annoying water level with unclear progression and long story short that is where I stopped. Guess I could try out Knuckles but 3 kind of turned me off bigtime.

Not saying this means Sonic sucks, but man... Nintendo just didn't do this kind of thing with Mario. Nintendo understands progression... you either A. don't put an uber annoying water stage into a game or B. put it later on.


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 21:57:37
@Guillaume
Plus, if I never do it, I can continue on with my mad dellusion that I'd be awesome at it.


@Zero
Can't say I ever found it hard to figure out how to progress in a Sonic game as a kid, but I can understand a general annoyance with water stages. Not that I like water stages in just about any game...

Sonic 2 is widely regarded as the best in the series if you're looking for a "maybe give it a second chance" game. I'm not sure all of the awesome music made it to the Virtual Console version though (licensing problem with Michael Jackson).


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 22:03:42  - Edited by 
 on: 05/28/12, 22:07:07
@Zero

Don't worry, if the water stage hadn't stopped you in Sonic 3, the drum probably would have.




Then again, Sonic 3 was famously rushed.


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 22:13:36
@Zero Glad to see you're enjoying the gift!

I can understand getting lost in the more spacious Sonic stages. Hydrocity especially has an openness/verticality to it that can be disorienting, and then half of it is underwater with movers and air currents and such so that doesn't help. But most of the time, the games do a pretty good job of funneling you forward even if you feel like you're not sure exactly where you're going.

@nacthenud I agree that Sonic 2 is a better introduction to the series but I love how experimental all the stages in S3K are. Sonic 2 was solid, but Sonic 3 & Knuckles explored the capabilities of the gameplay style in a way that Sonic 2 never quite did. It results in some seriously divisive offerings (I kind of hate Marble Gardens, others absolutely love it; Hydrocity might be my favorite Sonic stage ever, Zero's not so big on it) but you can tell the designers threw the book out the window for Sonic 3/Knuckles and I think it paid off.

@Guillaume ALL of the Genesis Sonic games were terribly rushed. Sonic 2 was supposed to have a time travel gimmick to it that got axed, along with like six zones that played into that. And yeah, The Game That Should Have Been Sonic 3 was split in half and rushed out the door in two bizarrely incomplete (though still substantial) packages. Even so, the games turned out pretty damn well for being early victims of Sega's terrible management.


Posted by 
 on: 05/28/12, 22:34:50  - Edited by 
 on: 05/28/12, 22:36:59
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