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Negative World Podcast 017 - Eating worms in the school yard
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September 28, 2011, 09:44:52
 


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You want to hear about games? That's great, because Kriswright, ludist210 and Guillaume won't stop rambling about Kirby Mass Attack, Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones, and Jerry Rice & Nitus' Dog Football! Special appearance by Stephmonster, the first (gasp) female to grace the Negative World podcast with her presence!

Then, the crew attacks various topics (and each other!): Kris (and his wife!) collect games, ludist210 has the future of music games on his mind, and Guillaume wonders if Sega even ever knew what good game design is. Sorry for the rambling!

As usual, the theme music comes from Negative World's owner and dictator, Zero. The funky beats throughout the podcast are from the "classic" game Toejam & Earl.

Comment on the topics, the podcast, the guests, the host, etc. on Negative World! Or, be a weirdo and post them on Facebook or Twitter instead.

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Posted: 09/28/11, 09:44:52  - Edited by 
 on: 12/05/11, 06:23:41    
 
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@kriswright

I can see where you're trying to take that comparison, but I don't think it's really fair for either game. Kid Chameleon had more power-ups that altered the gameplay a lot more, but the basic premise was to go from point A to point B with nothing really to collect (aside from gems to give extra lives). Some of those power-ups were necessary to finish levels IIRC (never finished Kid Chameleon). Wario Land was more collecting treasures with a couple of power-ups.


Posted by 
 on: 09/29/11, 21:53:35
True, and outside of the dragon hat, all the hats were pretty similar. The attack remained the same.


Posted by 
 on: 09/29/11, 21:58:43
About an hour in to the podcast now and have a quick question.

I'm not sure if it was kriswright or ludist but it was mentioned that BIT TRIP RUNNER was less of a rhythm game than the rest of the series. Not necessarily challenging that or anything but was just curious while he felt that way. It seems like the actions are all kinda tied into the music like the other BIT TRIP games. Again just curious.


Posted by 
 on: 09/29/11, 22:56:31
Must have been ludist. I've got the demo of Runner, which I love, but my experience is too limited to make a call either way. In fact, from what I have played, I'd probably still consider it a rhythm game.

Over to you, ludist.


Posted by 
 on: 09/29/11, 23:20:39
@Robknoxious1

I knew I'd have to explain myself with this one. Here goes...

I guess the least rhythm-oriented titles in the series are VOID (think Ikaruga) and FATE (on-rails shooter) after thinking about it, but to me, RUNNER was the least intuitive since you had zero direct control over where CommanderVideo was moving. It was always to the right at full speed. Never any variance as to the speed of the obstacles that moved.

I don't guess that makes it any less rhythmic (or a bad game, it was my favorite in the series), but at the same time, the rhythms didn't grab me as much as the ones from, say, BEAT or FLUX did. I guess that's why I said what I did. I should have given more consideration to the BIT.TRIP series as a whole when I was preparing for the topic at hand.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 00:01:01  - Edited by 
 on: 09/30/11, 00:04:04
To be honest I wouldn't classify the Bit.Trip games as rhythm games at all. CORE comes the closest, because it's the only one where a digital action results directly in a sound. In the rest of them, your paddle just happens to produce notes, or notes happen to play when you jump over something or kill an enemy, but it's delayed from when you pressed the button.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 00:43:49
ludist210 said:
I guess that's why I said what I did. I should have given more consideration to the BIT.TRIP series as a whole when I was preparing for the topic at hand.

Apology accepted.

Don't let it happen again.

Nah I'm just messing with you obviously. Like I said I was just curious because it seemed like all the actions - jumping, sliding, kicking was all synced with the music. But I can see where you're coming from. Makes sense.

I finished my first listen through of the podcast. Great job by everyone on their topics.

I had to smile thinking about the SNES vs. Genesis thing. You guys were lucky. I could've got whatever I wanted and I picked the TG-16. Well in my defense the SNES wasn't actually out yet but still.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 00:52:59
@Robknoxious1

RUNNER isn't the type of rhythm game where you press the buttons perfectly in time with the music. Your actions in the game create the music, and by remembering the music that you create, you remember exactly what actions you need to take when you see certain obstacles. Muscle memory combined with ear memory.

BEAT and FLUX are rhythm games though. There are a ton of sections in those games where you have no idea what's going on on-screen, but you can still get through it by naturally reacting to the music. CORE does this the best.

@kriswright

Get the Negative World collection app!


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 01:14:51  - Edited by 
 on: 09/30/11, 01:15:55
Being an administrator for the NW facebook page, I can see that no one shared the podcast article like I asked, by the way.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 05:12:42
Good episode! I enjoyed hearing from all four of you, great dialogue all around. Steph's comment about why Kirby hates trees (even happy peaceful smiling ones) with a passion, made me smile.

That was a fun 'Now Playing' section. I finally get to enjoy a good discussion about dog football.
(seriously, I liked hearing about it!)

Ludist's topic was a good discussion that reminded me of one of the few roundtables I ever did (posted earlier this year), which I will shamelessly plug here for no reason. Honestly, the plastic peripheral games just don't cut it for me anymore, and I'd much rather play the Rhythm Heaven, Elite Beat Agents, Elektroplankton, kinds of games any day.

And how was the music genre discussed without mentioning Wii Music?? (I've never played it, but it is notoriously infamous in Nintendo's library).

-----

Kris, you brought me back to my youth with the Sega discussion. I personally have a fondness for Sega, especially because of the Genesis (I was never impressed with the 8-bit Master System). Though I grew up a diehard Nintendo fan, and owned all the Nintendo systems (beginning with NES), I knew a lot of people who had a Genesis. My friend next door to me had a Genesis, and I have very good memories of going over his house and playing Sonic the Hedgehog. My behavior was hilarious; I would be like 'Eh, Nintendo's better!' yet ask my friend 'Can I play one more time?' Sonic 1 was completely awesome; the graphics, the music, the large branching levels, the speed. It was different from Mario, and I liked it. There was something simply satisfying about the gameplay, and I remember feeling some anger even, that a company had come along who seemed to have games that were a bit 'edgier' than Nintendo, making me think there was a chance Nintendo would no longer be top dog.

I remember enjoying Streets of Rage especially. And though I didn't play many of them, I had always wanted to check out all the cool licensed games like Jurassic Park, Taz-Mania, Aladdin, and so on.

I'll never forget the fierce 16 bit wars. Yes, there was the whole 'Genesis does what Nintendon't,' but more than that, Sega's ads always managed to find a way to poke fun at Nintendo somehow. There was one where Sonic's speed blasted away Super Mario Kart's slowness (funny how they didn't compare Sonic to F-Zero. Blast Processing, haha).

Hmm, not sure if this is the exact commercial I had in mind, but you get the idea:



Nintendo did strike back at times, though not always as aggressively. Maybe they did so more during their 'Play it Loud' campaign. Donkey Kong Country, especially, was a game I distinctly remember turning many people's heads, especially a lot of my Genesis friends, who specifically bought the SNES because of DKC:



I distinctly remember in middle school loving Sonic as a character more and more. The cartoons and comics certainly didn't hurt.

I never bought my own Genesis, but I ended up saving for a Game Gear. That thing was so cool. I think I had Sonic 2, along with a boxing game. The colors man, and the brightness!

I eventually sold the Game Gear though (my Nintendo fanboyism was too strong, and the Game Boy library was growing stronger and stronger every day).

But... I did buy a Dreamcast later on! I didn't get one early on its life cycle, but I picked up Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Crazy Taxi, Grandia II, Skies of Arcadia, Jet Grind Radio, Soul Calibur (!), a Street Fighter Alpha game I think... maybe some other games as well, I can't remember. I enjoyed every one of those games, I was simply amazed by Sonic Adventure and had no reason to dislike the game, despite the criticisms.

Umm, I already sold off the DC too though! (Again, the Nintendo love was so overwhelming, that as my Nintendo collection grew, all non-Nintendo platforms simply diminished in priority to the point I was no longer playing them).

It's cool you mentioned Panzer Dragoon Orta, I think I still have my copy somewhere for the Xbox.

Ah! Sorry for the long reminiscence, I just rambled too much.

@kriswright

I barely remember hearing about Kid Chameleon, though I think it may have been more heavily advertised in magazines and comics, which I didn't have a lot of back in the day.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 07:41:33
@roykoopa64
That post was almost an article in and of itself. Great read, man! I remember the Blast Processing commercial and getting SO MAD because they used Mario Kart. I remember saying to my sister, "Well, THEY don't have MODE SEVEN!" I was such a little N-Trooper! Remember the Star Fox commercial, "Why go to the next level when you can go lightyears beyond?" in response to SEGA's "Welcome to the next level" ads. Good stuff!

As for Kid Chameleon, I remember it being advertised in magazines. I really wanted to play it and when I did I actually enjoyed it. It is pretty poopy nowadays though. It sort of IS a Wario/Mario mix with poor controls.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 08:02:04
@roykoopa64

Love it, Roy! Great memories of the Mother of All Console Wars. Great to hear that you hold both of the combatants in high regard, which I do as well. As I said on the podcast, I think it's clear now that the SNES was the better console, but that wasn't so obvious in the early days of the Genesis.

I was kind of the inverse of you. My two best friends and I had Genesiseses. That was fun because we could swap games and stuff. But we did know a kid down the block who owned an SNES (In my neighborhood, the SNES was considered a rich kid's toy because the price point was a bit higher.) And, like an alternate version of you, I remember saying stuff like, "SEGA is so much better than Nintendo" but a little time would go by and I'd be all, "So... wanna play some more Mario World?" Ha ha ha.

That poor kid, being used for his SNES.

The real piece de resistance was when the home port of Street Fighter II came to the SNES. It seemed darn near perfect to us. That was the first moment when I realized the SNES had legs. I may have the timing wrong, but it seems like a few months later the Genesis got its own version of the game and, while I've heard a lot of people say it plays better or whatever, truth is it looked like crap compared to the SNES version. And that's all we really cared about. So that was demoralizing to our little platoon of hapless console warriors. No amount of blood in Mortal Kombat could cover it.

I lost touch with SEGA when they announced the CD add on. One of my friends got it, but by then I was done with console gaming (I'd discovered girls, who I still think are a lot more fun than video games). When I look back, I tend to think of SEGA mostly dominating the first half of the generation with new and exciting franchises and then Nintendo overtakes them in the second, driving SEGA into the ground while releasing blockbuster after blockbuster. Maybe the release dates and sales data tell a different story, but that's my memory.

Fun times.


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 08:55:24
@ploot

Yes, of course. How convenient that Mode 7 was not acknowledged! I tried my best to be a strong 'N-trooper'; Nintendo Power trained me well for the task, haha. I think in one NP article they actually directly compared the SNES and Genesis specs side-by-side, and I used to have some of that stuff memorized, particularly the fact that SNES had a color palette of 32,768 (and could display 240 on screen), while the Genesis had a paltry palette of 512 (and could display 61 on screen).

*removes nerd glasses*

@kriswright

Genesiseses...

Genesi?
EDIT: Oooh, scratch that one, sounds too much like that word meaning a mass killing of a population.....not cool


Kris, you and I would have complemented our gaming quite well if we had met at the time, how cool.

Yes, Street Fighter II was absolutely incredible when it came out on the SNES. Seriously, you could look at the game and think to yourself, "Wow, it's like having the arcade right here in my house." Who could tell the difference? Unbelievable. I got that game for one of my birthdays; those carts were very expensive and I was very fortunate to have the games I did, very fortunate indeed. I felt like king of the world when all the kids would want to come over and play with me (heh, maybe I was kid being used!).

kriswright said:
@roykoopa64

(I'd discovered girls, who I still think are a lot more fun than video games).

Can't argue with that!

And I noticed you type SEGA in all-caps. A proper spelling, or a nod of respect to a great gaming company?


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 17:29:10  - Edited by 
 on: 09/30/11, 17:49:52
kriswright said:
(I'd discovered girls, who I still think are a lot more fun than video games)
My wife and I don't keep a TV in the bedroom, but we do play on our DS Lite and 3DS before we fall asleep every night. So if you can successfully mix the two...


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 17:52:36
What's this "girl" thing you speak of?

Don't you mean "curl"? What the old Cape Cannaveral guys called a comet with an east-west trajectory?


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 18:10:04
@roykoopa64

The caps thing is just because it looks more correct to me styled that way. I guess it's supposed to be a faux-anagram of Service Games, so maybe it should be written as SeGa. Except that looks stupid. Anyway, the caps thing is not something I came up with myself. It's pretty common to write it that way on the internet. Probably all those years of us seeing the logo at the start of games.

Now that you bring it up, it's starting to distract me, now. It looks like I'm doing the SEGA Scream every few sentences.

EDIT: SEGA!


Posted by 
 on: 09/30/11, 19:15:20  - Edited by 
 on: 09/30/11, 19:15:35
Another good one, guys. I LOL'd at the 2001 theme song with dogs.

Even though I own a Master System, I haven't played many Sega games. I did borrow the PS3 Genesis collection from the library last year, though, and sampled a bunch of the games. One game that caught me by surprise was Ristar, which I think was developed by Sonic Team. Unlike Sonic, it's a much slower paced game, but the mechanics are so damn fun. I've been meaning to buy it on the VC one of these days.


Posted by 
 on: 10/01/11, 16:29:24
Great job guys! Welcome Steph to Negative World, and you did a good job on the podcast.

I agree with Guillaume that the music on Kirby Mass Attack is not as catchy as the other Kirby games. But I like the idea of having a lot of Kirbys to complete a level. I'm not sure if this is the first time I've seen a blue Kirby. And the angel Kirbys want to go in peace, but Kirby won't let him!

Oh, Kris did a good job in describing the dog football game. The game was explained in details, that I can even imagine the kind of game it is.


Posted by 
 on: 10/03/11, 08:07:05
This is a weird complaint but do we really need to have this thing play automatically in the thread?

Every time I load up negative world for the past many days, if I don't click into the site fast enough I begin hearing, "I guess it's like nudist but I keep my clothes on." and then music and stuff.

Is there any real reason we NEED it to play automatically? Can't people just click on it to start it? or download it?


Posted by 
 on: 10/06/11, 05:06:56
@DrFinkelstein

It doesn't play automatically for me.

I don't know what you tell you.


Posted by 
 on: 10/06/11, 07:06:50
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