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The Legend of Zelda Timeline AND YOU!!!
by 
Editor
February 11, 2011, 02:32:49
 
Why is it that we love Zelda? The puzzles, the wacky characters, the BOSSES!? I'll tell you what I love about it- the story. While at first glance it might seem like most of the Zelda games have fairly simple plots, the overall web of how all the games connect keeps dedicated fans constantly coming up with new theories on the chronology of the Zelda franchise. Jumping right in can get overwhelming- but I'm here to help.

THIS IS:





Basic Knowledge
Before you can even think about thinking about the Zelda Timeline, there are a few things that you should know:

-All Zelda games take place in the same universe.
-Every game released has some sort of reference to another game in the series.
-The CD-i and BS Zelda games are not canon.
-There are multiple Links and Zeldas.
-There are at least two incarnations of Ganon.
-The Triforce's location/owner/status varies from game to game.
-Skyward Sword is the first game in the timeline.

Remember those!


The Official Zelda Timeline
Originally, this editorial laid out a theoretical timeline. Nintendo has since revealed the official Zelda timeline in the 25th Anniversary Hyrule Historia Zelda art book. Here is the full timeline, translated:


Nintendo's timeline doesn't perfectly match the one I had come up with- in fact, no one had guessed that the timeline would split into three branches. The only major difference between the Hyrule Historia timeline and the one I had put together is the placement of the Four Swords games. I said that Four Swords Adventures is a prequel to A Link to the Past showing the origin of Ganon, with Four Swords as a direct prequel to Four Swords Adventures. Four Swords Adventures' new placement makes sense; however, placing Four Swords directly after Minish Cap contradicts Four Swords Adventures' prologue, where it is implied that Four Swords took place only a few years prior to Four Swords Adventures. Despite this, I'll be using Nintendo's timeline for the rest of this editorial.

The Split
One of the most significant events in the entire Zelda universe is the ending of Ocarina of Time. After saving Hyrule and sealing Ganondorf away, Link is sent back in time by Zelda using the Ocarina of Time. Link appears standing in front of the Master Sword as a child. He then goes to Hyrule Castle to meet with young Zelda, just like at the beginning of the game. Since Zelda is still in Hyrule Castle, Link had to have been sent back in time to before he first opened the Door of Time- yet the Door of Time is open anyway.

What all this complicated time travel mumbo-jumbo boils down to is the Timeline Split. Back in the Hyrule that Link saved as an adult, Zelda, the Sages and the citizens of Hyrule go on living in peace until The Great Flood. This is known as the "Adult Timeline." The Hyrule that Link goes back in time to is known as the "Child Timeline." Upon meeting Zelda, Link warns her that her plan to stop Ganondorf will not work, and that they should wait until he makes a wrong move and reveals himself. Eventually, Ganondorf is caught, put on trial, and sealed in the Twilight Realm, as seen in Twilight Princess. Meanwhile, Link journeys to Termina and saves the land from Majora's Mask.

Now that the official timeline has been revealed, we've found out that the timeline splits off into a third branch at the end of Ocarina of Time. While the other two branches exist together as alternate universes, the third branch is a "What if?" scenario, taking the place of the Adult Timeline and preventing the Child Timeline from ever coming into existence. The third timeline allows for Ocarina of Time to act as the backstory for A Link to the Past- the Hero of Time is killed in the final confrontation with Ganon, leading to the Imprisoning War, where Ganon is sealed away by the seven sages.

Before Nintendo revealed the official timeline, one of the hottest points of timeline debate was whether there was a split or not. For some of the arguments for and against the split, check out this post.


The Official Timeline Explained
After looking at Nintendo's official timeline, you might have a few questions. In this section, I've put together a more in-depth version of the timeline to shed some light on the gray areas.

*Hyrule and the Triforce are created by the three goddesses, Din, Farore, and Nayru.*

*Skyward Sword's Backstory: Civilization advances to a point where intelligent robots exist. Demise attacks Hyrule and wipes out nearly all humans- the survivors are sent to the sky on a chunk of land that would later be known as Skyloft. The godess Hylia defeats and seals away Demise.*

Skyward Sword- The Master Sword is created and humans return to the surface. Before being sealed into the Master Sword, Demise prophecizes that his evil will return again and again in a never-ending cycle.

*Hyrule is founded once again. Hundreds of years pass.*

*Minish Cap's Backstory: The Picori create the Picori Sword and give it to a hero to seal away Hyrule's monsters.*

Minish Cap- Monsters are re-released into Hyrule. The Picori Sword is broken and reforged as the Four Sword. The Wind Sorcerer Vaati is defeated.

*Some time passes.*

Four Swords- Vaati breaks free of the Four Sword and kidnaps Princess Zelda (It is unclear whether Vaati was sealed in the Four Sword at the end of Minish Cap or sometime later). Zelda’s childhood friend, Link, saves her and seals Vaati back in the Four Sword.

*Hundreds of years pass.*

Ocarina of Time- The Split.


Adult Timeline

Ocarina of Time- The Triforce is broken into three parts. Power goes to Ganondorf, Wisdom to Zelda, Courage to Link. Ganon is defeated by Link and sealed away in the Sacred Realm. Link is sent back in time to his childhood. The Triforce of Courage is shattered and scattered across Hyrule.

*Wind Waker's Backstory: Ganondorf breaks free. Hyrule is flooded by the gods. Hundreds of years pass.*

Wind Waker- Ganondorf is killed. The Triforce is reassembled. Hyrule is washed away for good. Link and Tetra (Zelda) set out to find new land to settle on.

Phantom Hourglass- Craziness ensues on a high seas adventure with Link and Tetra.

*Link and Tetra find new land. They call the new land Hyrule and found a new kingdom. A hundred years pass.*

Spirit Tracks- A new Link saves Hyrule from an ancient demon.


Child Timeline

Ocarina of Time- After being sent back to the past, Link warns Zelda that Ganondorf plans to take over Hyrule, and that the best course of action would be to do nothing.

*Twilight Princess' Backstory: Ganondorf is eventually caught, trialed, and sealed away in the Twilight Realm.*

Majora's Mask- Link goes off to the Lost Woods on Epona to search for an old friend (presumably Navi). The Skull Kid steals Epona and the Ocarina of Time. Link follows the Skull Kid to Termina and finds out that in three days, the moon will crash into the earth and kill everyone.

*About a hundred years pass.*

Twilight Princess- Ganondorf, still stuck in the Twilight Realm, takes advantage of a power-hungry young Twili named Zant. Zant and Ganondorf invade Hyrule, only to be killed by a new Link.

*Some time passes.*

Four Swords Adventures- A mysterious Shadow Link causes some ruckus at the Four Sword shrine. A new Link and Zelda go to investigate. Link draws the Four Sword, releasing Vaati from his seal, and goes off to save the maidens of the shrine. Eventually Link finds out that Shadow Link and Vaati were just distractions. The real threat is a young Gerudo named Ganondorf, who stole an ancient trident and underwent a transformation into Ganon. Link kills Vaati and seals Ganon in the Four Sword.


Failure Timeline

Ocarina of Time- Link dies in the final battle against Ganon.

*A Link to the Past's Backstory: After the Hero of Time's death, the Imprisoning War began. No one was able to weild the Master Sword and kill Ganon, so he was sealed in the Sacred Realm (now the Dark World) by the sages. Some time passes.*

A Link to the Past- A priest named Agahnim tricks the people of Hyrule into putting him into a position of power. He captures the seven maidens (including Zelda) descended from the Sages who imprisoned Ganon. A new Link recovers the Master Sword and finds out that Agahnim was just Ganon's pawn. Link ventures to the Dark World, rescues the maidens and kills Ganon. Upon killing Ganon, Link finds the Triforce and wishes for all of Ganon's influences to leave Hyrule, sending the world into a period of peace and prosperity.

*Some time passes.*

Oracle of Ages / Oracle of Seasons- A new Link journies to Hyrule castle and sees the Triforce. It transports him to a foreign land that is being threatened by a new villian, either Veran or Onox, depending on which game is played first. It is eventually revealed that this new villian is just a pawn of Koume and Kotake, two of Ganon's most loyal followers. Their master plan is to revive Ganon- but of course, Link stops them and kills their bastardized half-revived Ganon. His work done, Link sets off on a boat.

Link's Awakening- Link's boat crashes and he lands on a strange island.

*Some time passes.*

*Zelda II's Backstory: Long story short, the Triforce of Courage is hidden away in the Great Palace and Princess Zelda is put under a sleeping spell. More time passes.*

The Legend of Zelda- A new Zelda is captured by Ganon (this is the same Ganon from A Link to the Past, but it isn't explained how he was resurrected). Ganon steals the Triforce of Power; Zelda manages to shatter the Triforce of Wisdom and scatter it across the land of Hyrule. A new Link sets out to recover the pieces of the Triforce of Wisdom, rescue Zelda, kill Ganon and get the Triforce of Power back. He does.

*A few years pass.*

Zelda II: Adventures of Link- Link finds out about the sleeping Zelda. The only way to break the spell is to use the Triforce of Courage in conjunction with the other two pieces of the Triforce. Link sets out to recover the Triforce of Courage from the Great Palace. Meanwhile, followers of Ganon try to kill Link and use his blood to revive Ganon. They fail, Link succeeds. The Triforce is whole again.


The Future of the Legend of Zelda Series
So where does Zelda go from here? All of the loose ends left by Ocarina of Time have been tied up, and the Old Hyrule, along with nearly every single important plot item, is lost in the Adult Timeline. A sequel to Spirit Tracks would need a new villian and new plot that has nothing to do with the Triforce. That is, unless the Triforce and Master Sword somehow come back.

A sequel to Four Swords Adventures would make the most sense at this point; Ganon is still sealed in the Four Sword in that timeline. Besides, who wouldn't want a Wii U or 3DS online Four Swords game?

Skyward Sword has opened up a whole new onslaught of possibilities for the next Zelda game. We could have a series of prequels taking place in the technologically advanced Hyrule that the Timeshift Stones gave us a glimpse at, or we could have a direct sequel that ties up a few of the loose ends from Skyward Sword.


What Else is There?
Now you know all there is to know about Zelda, right? WRONG! The Zelda universe is rich with unsolved mysteries. Take a look at any Zelda fansite. There are constant discussions and analyses about even the most obscure facts. Why did the Zoras evolve into birds, but the Gorons just stayed the same? How many groups of sages are there, and how are they connected? Why are there giant phallic pillars in Majora's Mask? The list goes on and on. So get out there and start analyzing!

Special thanks to the Zelda Wiki for remembering what I didn't and Triforcebun for making the banner art. And thank YOU for reading! Be sure to read the comment thread for a lot of great discussion!

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Posted: 02/11/11, 02:32:49  - Edited by 
 on: 05/17/13, 08:46:18    
 
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@Secret_Tunnel

Agreed. You have to take into account how limited the N64 was in power compared to the GameCube and so on...I'm sure they would have made Hyrule the size of TP if they could have. Plus, there's hundreds if not thousands of years elapsing between a lot of the games. It would be nice if the geography matched up, but the video game medium has evolved so much since the first game, that it's just unreliable to use as a definitive.

ALttP couldn't take place in the Adult Timeline because the Master Sword is on the ocean floor embedded in Ganondorf's head.


Heh, at least until the game where they have you swim down to old Hyrule and pull the sword out of his head. They can have musical fish that you have to collect on the way down...


Posted by 
 on: 12/04/11, 21:00:54  - Edited by 
 on: 12/04/11, 21:04:08
Secret_Tunnel said:
We don't know who the narrator is. Saying that Link became famous in the Child Timeline only holds up if we assume that the narrator is a random citizen of Hyrule.

What makes you say that? After all, in the very intro you posted, it even says that Link "crept away from the land that had made him a legend..." It didn't extend to the narrator and no further. It extended throughout the entire land. Plus Link's Hero's Shield in MM is captioned with something to the effect that it is wielded only by those who are heroes, and we know Link spent several months in Hyrule before he left, so walking around Hyrule with a shield that is only used by heroes would have similarly marked him as a legend to all who saw him.

Secret_Tunnel said:
And if we're being really technical it says that Link parted ways with Navi when he took his place among legends.
Exactly, and all of that happened in the child portion of OoT. His adult exploits are what is passed down as legend, but those legends are being passed and spread around during the child portion of OoT. And because these people are praising a child for his future exploits as a time traveling hero-to-come (remember that even when Link woke up from his 7 year slumber, there was still talk amongst the kingdom of the legendary Hero of Time to come; this legend/prophecy seemingly sprung into being while Link was asleep), it makes sense that he would be remembered as a child.

However, if he was not remembered as a child, then Outset Island celebrating a child Hero of Time would make no sense whatsoever. It wouldn't work with a single timeline, and it ESPECIALLY wouldn't work with a split timeline.

DrFinkelstein said:
You know, with the Tingle statue being in Skyward Sword in Zelda's room, frankly, they could perhaps just do a game from early in the series timeline in the future that utilizes Tingle again and thus the Wind Waker Tingle could reference that.

That's unlikely since the Tingle reference in TWW specifically talks about a Tingle who was born near a lake, was 35 years old at the time of the legend, and specifically helped the Hero of Time when he was lost. So unless we get another Tingle being born near a lake, and we get another Hero of Time that isn't OoT/MM Link (or OoT/MM Link stars in a third game that takes place in Hyrule where he meets Tingle again), then the reference can only be a reference to MM.

Secret_Tunnel said:
ALttP couldn't take place in the Adult Timeline because the Master Sword is on the ocean floor embedded in Ganondorf's head.

If we assume that there is only one Master Sword in the Zelda series and that the floodwaters will always prevent someone from being able to get to the old Master Sword, then we can make this statement. However, OoX shows us a Master Sword being wielded in the world after the ALttP Master Sword has already been placed to slumber forever. TWW tells us that the floodwaters will not always be in place. If FSA Hyrule is ALttP Hyrule, those games show us that the floodwaters eventually recede. There's plenty of ways that the Master Sword could show up again post-TWW regardless of whether it's the same sword or a new Master Sword altogether (and a new Master Sword could certainly explain away the inconsistencies such as the conflicting origins and Master Sword no longer resting after a point where it is said to rest forever).

On to SS: I haven't beaten it yet (I'm only just before the fourth dungeon), so I'm not convinced one way or the other about its placement yet (though if it wasn't for what I know about the Master Sword and developer intent for this game, I wouldn't be surprised to see it game take place after ST at the rate it's going; everything seems to suggest a much later placement than first in the timeline at this point).

Also, I don't remember if I mentioned this in one of my previous posts, but Zelda was never said to be the Sage of Time, so that might need to be cleared up in the OP (and I see that most of my other corrections that have nothing to do with the legitimacy of the split have not been fixed yet in the OP either... ). And did I already talk about why those "For" points don't necessarily support the split? I don't want to seem like I'm nagging away and repeating myself if someone remembers one way or the other.


Posted by 
 on: 12/05/11, 06:46:24  - Edited by 
 on: 12/05/11, 06:51:21
@V_s

I fixed the Sage of Time thing. What else was there? Other than split stuff? Because I'm leaving all that.

I thought the same thing about Skyward Sword too at first. It's totally Wind Waker 2.

V_s said:
Exactly, and all of that happened in the child portion of OoT. His adult exploits are what is passed down as legend, but those legends are being passed and spread around during the child portion of OoT. And because these people are praising a child for his future exploits as a time traveling hero-to-come (remember that even when Link woke up from his 7 year slumber, there was still talk amongst the kingdom of the legendary Hero of Time to come; this legend/prophecy seemingly sprung into being while Link was asleep), it makes sense that he would be remembered as a child.

Does it make sense though? For one thing, I don't remember there ever being a prophecy of a hero in Ocarina of Time, even in the adult world. And even if there was, why would the child go down in history as the hero when the adult was the one who saved the world? Wouldn't the person who ended the seven years of turmoil be more remembered than some kid who might save the world? No one (other than a few important characters) even recognizes Link after the seven years have passed.

Another thing: let's assume that Child Link goes down in history as the hero of time, and there's a single timeline. If boys on Outset Island were going to receive their green tunics when they reached the same age as the Child Hero, wouldn't that be before their coming-of-age birthday? Once they're of age, they're considered adults. Sure, WW Link obviously isn't as biologically old as Adult Link from OoT, but I think he looks older than Child Link from OoT.

It seems much more likely that Adult Link is the hero spoken of in the legends. The Triforce splitting apart when he left Hyrule is really the only hard piece of evidence that suggests that Child Link could be the legendary hero. My question is, where's the Triforce mark on Link's hand in Majora's Mask during the short segment that takes place in the Lost Woods?


Posted by 
 on: 12/05/11, 07:58:47
Secret_Tunnel said:
I fixed the Sage of Time thing. What else was there?

Only some of the following are mistakes, but they all could use some clarification, IMO:

--Zelda being at Hyrule Castle at the very end of OoT doesn't necessarily mean that Link ended up back in time before he first opened the Door of Time since there's nothing stopping Zelda from returning to the castle. (I believe that that scene takes place before present Link opens the Door of Time as well, but since Ganondorf doesn't begin occupying Hyrule Castle for some time after his attack, Zelda could easily return to look for survivors or some heirloom that she childishly believed she couldn't leave behind.)

--The spelling of Picori. (Apologies for the nit-pickiness of this one.)

--Vaati isn't sealed in the Four Sword at the end of TMC.

--Link still seemed to have the Triforce of Courage on him when he reappeared in the past, suggesting that he brought it with him rather than it leaving him when he was sent back in time. (Though I realize this is a point you have to ignore when supporting the split.)

--No mention of FS's back story which is the event in which Vaati was actually sealed in the Four Sword.

--I'm not sure where the implications exist that LoZ Ganon is the same guy as ALttP Ganon. After all, ALttP Ganon was either turned into Ganon by the trident (if he's the same guy as FSA Ganon) or by the Dark World from his wish on the Triforce (if he's not FSA Ganon and his trident isn't the FSA trident). LoZ Ganon was already Ganon before he ever got the Triforce of Power, and he never wielded a trident (BS Zelda excluded). Since he had neither the Triforce, Dark World, or trident sustaining his Ganon form, he seems to be a different guy from ALttP Ganon. On top of that, LoZ Ganon was called the Prince of Darkness. ALttP Ganon was called the King of Darkness.

--It seems to be a bit misleading to say that all of the plot items are lost in the adult timeline since a simple spell, wish on the Triforce, or reforging of those items would quickly and easily bring them back into play.

--Not sure the Imprisoning War would make a great main game since no hero appeared during that time. It would have to be a side/spin-off game if it was playable at all.

Secret_Tunnel said:
Does it make sense though? For one thing, I don't remember there ever being a prophecy of a hero in Ocarina of Time, even in the adult world. And even if there was, why would the child go down in history as the hero when the adult was the one who saved the world? Wouldn't the person who ended the seven years of turmoil be more remembered than some kid who might save the world? No one (other than a few important characters) even recognizes Link after the seven years have passed.

Sure, it may not make as much sense as the adult being remembered as the one who saved the world, but it clearly happened. TWW celebrates the child as being the hero. The only way this can possibly be justified is with a single timeline or by saying that the people who passed down the legend just screwed up. Sheik mentions how Link looks just like the Hero of Time of legend, and that to ultimately fulfill the legend he has to awaken the five sages.

Secret_Tunnel said:
Another thing: let's assume that Child Link goes down in history as the hero of time, and there's a single timeline. If boys on Outset Island were going to receive their green tunics when they reached the same age as the Child Hero, wouldn't that be before their coming-of-age birthday? Once they're of age, they're considered adults. Sure, WW Link obviously isn't as biologically old as Adult Link from OoT, but I think he looks older than Child Link from OoT.

You are correct. However, the birthday being celebrated is not their coming-of-age birthday. None of the children who reach that age are considered adults. You'll never find that piece of text in the game. The children only reach the age of the hero. They are never considered adults, and they are never considered to have come of age in the classical sense of becoming adults. It is merely recognized that they are now the same age as the Hero of Time. Honestly, I think TWW Link looks younger than child Link from OoT, but according to the game, TWW Link is the exact age of child OoT Link when TWW begins.

Secret_Tunnel said:
It seems much more likely that Adult Link is the hero spoken of in the legends. The Triforce splitting apart when he left Hyrule is really the only hard piece of evidence that suggests that Child Link could be the legendary hero. My question is, where's the Triforce mark on Link's hand in Majora's Mask during the short segment that takes place in the Lost Woods?

I wonder if the Lost Woods that Link was in at the beginning of MM were still in Hyrule. Note that the Lost Woods/Kokiri Forest extends past the border of the map of Hyrule. Also note that in TWW's legend, the Triforce of Courage is depicted leaving Link while he is riding away on Epona. So he could have easily lost the Triforce of Courage before that opening scene in MM, and the Lost Woods he was in at the beginning of the game could have been outside of Hyrule. (Besides, FSA confirms that any forest in the world can become a Lost Woods. That title apparently describes the condition of the woods rather than one geographical location.)


Posted by 
 on: 12/05/11, 22:32:01
V_s said:
--Zelda being at Hyrule Castle at the very end of OoT doesn't necessarily mean that Link ended up back in time before he first opened the Door of Time since there's nothing stopping Zelda from returning to the castle. (I believe that that scene takes place before present Link opens the Door of Time as well, but since Ganondorf doesn't begin occupying Hyrule Castle for some time after his attack, Zelda could easily return to look for survivors or some heirloom that she childishly believed she couldn't leave behind.)
I doubt she came back after Ganondorf's attack, but I suppose if Link went to see her before the attack that would make sense. Honestly, I think that final scene is a lot more impactful if we assume that it was Zelda's first time meeting Link.

--The spelling of Picori. (Apologies for the nit-pickiness of this one.)
Fixed.

--Vaati isn't sealed in the Four Sword at the end of TMC.
Fixed.

--Link still seemed to have the Triforce of Courage on him when he reappeared in the past, suggesting that he brought it with him rather than it leaving him when he was sent back in time. (Though I realize this is a point you have to ignore when supporting the split.)
Do we know for sure that the mark would have faded as soon as Link lost the Triforce? The only instance I can think of a Triforce mark disappearing if at the end of TP with Ganondorf, which isn't really the same thing.

--No mention of FS's back story which is the event in which Vaati was actually sealed in the Four Sword.
Where would you put that? And while we're talking about Four Swords, what would you think about FS/FSA being right after MC, or MC being right before FS/FSA? I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work, unless we assume that the Skyloftians, Wind Tribe, and Ooccaa are all the same species.

--I'm not sure where the implications exist that LoZ Ganon is the same guy as ALttP Ganon. After all, ALttP Ganon was either turned into Ganon by the trident (if he's the same guy as FSA Ganon) or by the Dark World from his wish on the Triforce (if he's not FSA Ganon and his trident isn't the FSA trident). LoZ Ganon was already Ganon before he ever got the Triforce of Power, and he never wielded a trident (BS Zelda excluded). Since he had neither the Triforce, Dark World, or trident sustaining his Ganon form, he seems to be a different guy from ALttP Ganon. On top of that, LoZ Ganon was called the Prince of Darkness. ALttP Ganon was called the King of Darkness.
The only implication is in the ALttP manual where it refers to ALttP Ganon as if the reader already knows who Ganon is from the other games. I'll change that part.

--It seems to be a bit misleading to say that all of the plot items are lost in the adult timeline since a simple spell, wish on the Triforce, or reforging of those items would quickly and easily bring them back into play.
Hm, I wonder if knowledge of the Master Sword would persist after WW? Come to think of it, what are Medli and Makar doing for all those years after the Master Sword is lost!? But yeah, I suppose they could come back.

--Not sure the Imprisoning War would make a great main game since no hero appeared during that time. It would have to be a side/spin-off game if it was playable at all.
There could have been an unsung hero who ultimately failed. Or maybe it could be a Four Swords game where each Link is considered to be a Knight of Hyrule.

Alright, you've proven pretty well that Child Link is the hero referenced in Wind Waker. But even in the adult timeline, Child Link did stuff. He saved the Gorons, which earned him some fame among their people. He also rescued Princess Ruto. If we assume that the legend of the Hero of Time is primarily kept alive by the Royal Family, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that Zelda would have praised Child Link's heroism as well as Adult Link's.


Posted by 
 on: 12/06/11, 01:22:48  - Edited by 
 on: 12/06/11, 01:24:14
Secret_Tunnel said:
Honestly, I think that final scene is a lot more impactful if we assume that it was Zelda's first time meeting Link.

Yeah, it would be. In the single timeline perspective, I think it would be most impactful (and continuity-preserving) if we assume that Link's appearance to Zelda at the end of the game occurred immediately after Impa had escorted past Link from the castle, leading Zelda to realize immediately that this Link is not the same guy that she just talked to, explaining the look of what may have been surprise.

Secret_Tunnel said:
Do we know for sure that the mark would have faded as soon as Link lost the Triforce?

At the end of TWW when the Triforce was removed from all three characters' hands so Ganondorf could wish on it, the mark disappears completely from Link's hand. The marks also disappear from Zelda's and Ganondorf's hands during the fight. (However, in the cut scenes on either side of the fight, the mark does still occasionally appear on Zelda and Ganondorf's hands (sometimes the marks are there and other times they aren't), but when the marks are there they flash on and off repeatedly for some reason; this doesn't happen on Link, so I have to assume it was just an error; even if it did hold canonical importance, OoT child Link's mark never flashed like this in the N64 version or the 3DS version, so the mark in OoT doesn't seem to be behaving like the marks in TWW when the Triforce has just left their bodies.) But the important thing is that the mark is gone from all three characters for the most part when the Triforce has left them.

Besides, the King of Red Lions told TWW Link that OoT Link was separated from the elements that made him a hero when he left the land of Hyrule. The elements that made him a hero were the Master Sword (according to OoT dialogue) and the Triforce of Courage (according to TWW dialogue). However, he wasn't completely separated from the Master Sword when Zelda started sending him back in time, so that doesn't seem to be the point that the KoRL is talking about. Link must be considered to have separated from the Master Sword and Triforce of Courage when he left the land of Hyrule and ended up in Termina (or the Lost Woods prior to Termina).

Secret_Tunnel said:
Where would you put that? And while we're talking about Four Swords, what would you think about FS/FSA being right after MC, or MC being right before FS/FSA? I can't think of any reason why that wouldn't work, unless we assume that the Skyloftians, Wind Tribe, and Ooccaa are all the same species.

We are told that "ages" before FS was when Vaati appeared in Hyrule, kidnapped a bunch of beautiful maidens, and was eventually sealed in the Four Sword. At that point the Four Sword was placed in a shrine that was named after the sword. Eventually FS Zelda came to be the guardian of that shrine. So even though it says "ages" take place in-between FS and its back story, I would still have the two events taking place relatively close to each other. (In fact, I currently wouldn't place any games in-between FS and its back story, though it is certainly possible to have them there.) There's just the matter of knowledge of the legend and the shrine that must be retained until FS for it to make sense. So if we have TMC then FS's back story then OoT then MM then TP and then FS, the legend still being around wouldn't make sense. After all, in OoT pretty much no one remembers the events of SS or TMC, and a ton of wars take place before OoT and before TP in which more knowledge about history would have been lost. It just makes things a lot easier to place FS's back story much closer to FS.

As for TMC, FS, and FSA all taking place together, there's nothing preventing it from happening (well, it depends on where you place TMC), but it would seem awfully strange to me. After all, TMC Vaati and the TMC Four Sword act nothing like the FS/FSA Vaati and the FS/FSA Four Sword. They have different powers and reputations. The Four Swords have different origins. Vaati has different motivations... I can think of ways in which it would make sense for both Four Swords to be the same or for both Vaatis to be the same, but as of right now it doesn't make sense for them to be the same, and because of that huge disparity between what Vaati and the Four Sword were like back then compared to how they are in FS/FSA, it doesn't make sense to lump them all together to me.

And if TMC still takes place before OoT, then it would make even less sense for FS and FSA to take place right after TMC since FSA introduces an evil Ganondorf despite OoT seeming to imply that OoT Ganondorf is the first Ganondorf. And if FSA Ganondorf/Hyrule is ALttP Ganondorf/Hyrule then it would make no sense to place them there either (assuming we still believe that ALttP takes place after OoT).

So I like to keep them separated. If they do all three go together, I wouldn't be comfortable with the placement until we got some sort of in-game explanation to explain all of the vast differences. (Oh, I just thought of another thing. Despite geography being something that should only really be complementary to a theory, FS's and FSA's geographies are able to work together. TMC's geography just plain doesn't fit with FS and FSA's geographies. More time and perhaps more games between TMC and FS would further ease this seeming contradiction.)

Secret_Tunnel said:
Come to think of it, what are Medli and Makar doing for all those years after the Master Sword is lost!?

I wouldn't be surprised if the series Sword of Gryffindor'd it (i.e., after seemingly losing the sword, magic allows the sword to appear again to those who need it), possibly even with Medli and Makar's abilities doing the sword-warping.

Secret_Tunnel said:
There could have been an unsung hero who ultimately failed. Or maybe it could be a Four Swords game where each Link is considered to be a Knight of Hyrule.

True. Of course I'm not sure I would enjoy a game where my hero was destined to fail (even if Nintendo ever decided to go for something like that, and knowing them, they probably wouldn't). And it would be interesting to see a Four Sword game in which the Master Sword is brought up but ultimately never able to be found by Link...

Secret_Tunnel said:
Alright, you've proven pretty well that Child Link is the hero referenced in Wind Waker. But even in the adult timeline, Child Link did stuff. He saved the Gorons, which earned him some fame among their people.

Sure, but the people who primarily remember the Hero of Time in TWW are humans. We know from OoT and TP how much the Gorons and Zora like to share with the humans/Hylians: not all that much. So I wonder if Link's feats amongst the Gorons and Zora would have been passed down. (TWW's Gorons and Rito don't mention the Hero of Time at all, if I remember correctly). I then wonder if they would have bothered to have been passed down by humans if they did end up getting passed down. Since the legend that we are told that is passed down isn't done specifically for the Gorons or Zora, etc., it doesn't seem to be what child Link is remembered for.


Posted by 
 on: 12/06/11, 09:36:32
I'm taking this section out of the editorial, but I figured I should preserve it somehow. Here it is for anyone who cares!

The split has been debated back and forth for a long time. Between no one knowing how time travel actually works and the fact that Link was sent back in time by the Ocarina of Time and not the Master Sword, it's hard to tell what really happened. Here are some of the arguments for and against the Split Timeline Theory.

For:
-Eiji Aunoma, shortly after the release of Twilight Princess, stated in an interview that there was indeed a split in the timeline.
-After the Great Flood and the events of Wind Waker, Hyrule is washed away completely, along with the Triforce, the Master Sword, the Four Sword and several other artifacts. The New Hyrule from Spirit Tracks is commonly believed by single-timeline theorists to be where the rest of the Zelda games are set. If this is true, then how were all of these artifacts brought to the New Hyrule?
-If there is no Split in the timeline, then Link would be caught in a constant loop of having to save Hyrule. We know this isn't the case, because he goes off to save Termina. Some would argue that there are two Links- the one that was originally in Hyrule gathering the Spiritual Stones and the one that got sent back in time from the future. Future Link leaves for Termina, and original Link goes through the plot of Ocarina of Time, none the wiser. If this is true, then why did Zelda continue on with her plan to give original Link the Ocarina of Time, even after talking to future Link? We also know that future Link didn't leave Hyrule right away- he went and got Epona from Lon Lon Ranch. How would original Link get Epona as an adult if future Link has her? And why would future Link go looking for Navi when he knows that she is with original Link?

Against:
-In Wind Waker, Tingle tells Link about how Tingle's ancestor helped Link's ancestor long ago. The only time this ever happens is in Majora's Mask, which takes place in the Child Timeline. Since Wind Waker takes place in the Adult Timeline, there's no way Tingle could possibly know about this. Therefore, there can't be a split. The counterargument to this is that it's just an example of a "Nintendo nod" to another game, like how Link appears in Super Mario RPG.
-In Twilight Princess, an ancient hero is referenced several times. This probably isn't referring to the Child Timeline's young Link, since he didn't do much to save Hyrule. It's probably referring to Adult Link, from the Adult Timeline. This is another case of the Child Timeline referencing the Adult Timeline. However, it could also be referencing an event that happened in the past that we don't know about yet. In Minish Cap there is also talk of an ancient hero, and Skyward Sword is supposed to be the earliest game in the timeline. The ancient hero referred to in Twilight Princess could easily be one of these heroes.


Posted by 
 on: 12/29/11, 02:46:16  - Edited by 
 on: 12/29/11, 02:47:42




Posted by 
 on: 01/03/12, 13:19:54  - Edited by 
 on: 02/06/15, 12:54:37
@Shadowlink
That's brilliant.


Posted by 
 on: 01/03/12, 16:42:36
Hahahahahaha


Posted by 
 on: 01/03/12, 17:52:53
I think it's interesting that the post-Skyward Sword era is known as the "Sky Era." I almost feel like it's the beginning of the "Land Era."

So, let's say Nintendo's goal is to keep filling in the blanks. Where do you think they go from here? Maybe a direct follow-up to SS that takes place during the Sky Era. Or maybe Era of Chaos/leading into Era of Prosperity.

I'd like to see them tackle the Sealing War, though. If they are explaining the Lttp/LoZ/AoL grouping as existing only on this "failure" branch that never was acknowledged by any in-game occurrence, that's always going to annoy me.


Posted by 
 on: 01/03/12, 19:01:44
@TheBigG753

Yeah, I thought it was weird that they called that the "Sky Era" too. I agree, a couple of direct sequels to Skyward Sword that chronicle the beginning of Hyrule would be great.

There couldn't be a Sealing War game though? Who would you play as?


Posted by 
 on: 01/04/12, 01:12:38
@Secret_Tunnel

You could play as Ganondorf, starting from the final battle of OoT where your goal is to kill Link.


Posted by 
 on: 01/04/12, 01:37:22
@Shadowlink

Someone made it onto Dorkly! I hope someone else didn't take credit for this! I don't know what your real name is, haha.

You did make that didn't you? I was under the impression that you did. If not, and someone did steal this, we will bring the rain.

Edit: Nevermind! For some reason I thought you were the one who originally made that.


Posted by 
 on: 01/05/12, 20:05:17  - Edited by 
 on: 01/05/12, 20:35:12
@PogueSquadron

Nope! Sorry if gave that impression, I linked it from Kotaku.

Maybe I should have been more clear in giving credit, I figured the name at the bottom was enough. But you're right, if you aren't aware of what my real name is (it's Tim BTW ), that wouldn't have been helpful


Posted by 
 on: 01/05/12, 21:16:59
Secret_Tunnel said:

Against the Split Timeline Theory:

-In Wind Waker, Tingle tells Link about how Tingle's ancestor helped Link's ancestor long ago. The only time this ever happens is in Majora's Mask, which takes place in the Child Timeline. Since Wind Waker takes place in the Adult Timeline, there's no way Tingle could possibly know about this. Therefore, there can't be a split. The counterargument to this is that it's just an example of a "Nintendo nod" to another game, like how Link appears in Super Mario RPG.

Actually, Tingle's ancestors helped Link in Minish Cap, which takes place before The Wind Waker.


Posted by 
 on: 01/05/12, 23:51:52
@GameDadGrant

I don't remember Tingle's specific words in Wind Waker. He might have specifically said "Hero of Time."


Posted by 
 on: 01/06/12, 00:49:12
@Secret_Tunnel - He did specifically say that the ancient Tingle (who he may or may not have been related to) helped the Hero of Time, meaning TWW Tingle was specifically referencing MM Tingle.


Posted by 
 on: 01/06/12, 04:50:14
@V_s

Really? Hm. Well, I trust your knowledge of Legend of Zelda factoids.

Do you happen to have the actual in-game quote? I'm curious as to what the exact wording was.


Posted by 
 on: 01/06/12, 05:20:09
I found a text dump of the game here:

http://www.zeldalegends.net/files/emulation/dumps/tww/tww_ENG.txt

But I couldn't find the reference. I was Ctrl+F'ing for 'Hero', 'Tingle' and 'Ancestor' but found nothing...


Posted by 
 on: 01/06/12, 06:17:07
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